How many people became Arians?

[commenter]

“I don’t know that I’d use capitalization of he or his as proof of Arianism returning. I mean I never capitalize either but not out of any feeling that Christ isn’t one aspect of the 3 that make up the eternal triune God”.

from Commenter:
for the bolded

Why eek? You don’t believe Christ to be part of the eternal trinity?

“aspect”? Are you an **aspect **of your family? A feature, or characteristic?
I don’t mean to belabor my response, just pointing out that others - not you - do regard
“Christ” as kind of a symbol, an idea, an experience. Kind of a step towards the Arian neighborhood.
.

 

[jimkhong]

At first, it was just Arius’s congregation that he taught in this manner (though, I’ll note, many groups like the Ebionites taught very similar doctrines to his).

Some Christian narrators of the Middle Ages considered Islam to be extremely Arian because of its ultra-uber-low christology, and they considered Islam to be a polluted form of Christian practice with pagan influence.

Thanks Hatikvah for an incisive summary of Arian history. A few of your points intrigue me. I have never thought of Muslims as quasi-Arian. How would you argue that as Arianism still accept a divine nature to Jesus while Islam is adamant that there isn’t any.

Also, which of Arius’ doctrines would you think that Ebionites taught in a similar way?

 

[Vico]

Thanks Hatikvah for an incisive summary of Arian history. A few of your points intrigue me. I have never thought of Muslims as quasi-Arian. How would you argue that as Arianism still accept a divine nature to Jesus while Islam is adamant that there isn’t any.

Also, which of Arius’ doctrines would you think that Ebionites taught in a similar way?

For the Muslim Sufis (mostly in Sub-Saharan Africa - such as Senegal, and S. Asia - such as Bangladesh), the Logos is an intermediate between God and man, so Jesus and Muhammad are seen as personifications of Logos. The philosopher that developed the idea is Ibn Arabi,

“… Ebionites denied the Divinity and the virginal birth of Christ.”
Arendzen, J. (1909). Ebionites. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/05242c.htm

 

[Hatikvah]

Thanks Hatikvah for an incisive summary of Arian history. A few of your points intrigue me. I have never thought of Muslims as quasi-Arian. How would you argue that as Arianism still accept a divine nature to Jesus while Islam is adamant that there isn’t any.

Also, which of Arius’ doctrines would you think that Ebionites taught in a similar way?

Some Christian commentators in the Early Middle Ages (for example, St. John Chrysostom) considered Islam to be a Christian heresy and Muhammad to be a false prophet: however, it was thought, they took Jesus and lowered Him to the status of “prophet” (and not even the greatest, considering Muhammad), which was more or less Arian in its essence. There’s a whole Wikipedia article on Early Medieval Christian views of Muhammad: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Christian_views_on_Muhammad

Arianism need not refer specifically to Arius’ group, but simply to the “lower end” of christology (where as the highest is likely Modalism, with common Trinitarianism somewhere near it).

Well, it’s essential to know that the Ebionites were, at heart, a Jewish Christian group. They did not want there to be anything similar to, or of the same essence as, God. Therefore, Jesus was simply a normal man – quite literally, He was adopted as God’s Son (Adoptionism) after living a completely normal (yet sinless) life. While Arius taught the pre-existence of Christ, the Ebionites opposed it.

The most similar doctrine between the two is probably the denial of Christ’s divinity and the idea that God is only one Person (as opposed to two or three). There are other groups that this can be compared to even today, and it has somehow been revived and sustained forever…

 

[jimkhong]

Some Christian commentators in the Early Middle Ages (for example, St. John Chrysostom) considered Islam to be a Christian heresy and Muhammad to be a false prophet: however, it was thought, they took Jesus and lowered Him to the status of “prophet” (and not even the greatest, considering Muhammad), which was more or less Arian in its essence. There’s a whole Wikipedia article on Early Medieval Christian views of Muhammad: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Christian_views_on_Muhammad

Arianism need not refer specifically to Arius’ group, but simply to the “lower end” of christology (where as the highest is likely Modalism, with common Trinitarianism somewhere near it).

Well, it’s essential to know that the Ebionites were, at heart, a Jewish Christian group. They did not want there to be anything similar to, or of the same essence as, God. Therefore, Jesus was simply a normal man – quite literally, He was adopted as God’s Son (Adoptionism) after living a completely normal (yet sinless) life. While Arius taught the pre-existence of Christ, the Ebionites opposed it.

The most similar doctrine between the two is probably the denial of Christ’s divinity and the idea that God is only one Person (as opposed to two or three). There are other groups that this can be compared to even today, and it has somehow been revived and sustained forever…

OK, I see. You are interpreting arianism very broadly. Acceptance of Jesus but not as divine is in essense arianism.

Thanks. something to think about

 

[Vico]

OK, I see. You are interpreting arianism very broadly. Acceptance of Jesus but not as divine is in essense arianism.

Thanks. something to think about

There was also Adoptionism where the Son of God* is divine* but created.

 

[MartinJordan]

All this is good to learn. Meanwhile, I don’t think any Islamic source will be tracing Arianism or even the Councils. There were some Muslims here at CAF who tried to state about Councils but not much came out of it. I mean they can easily get info on the net, but they will not be able to come with anything of value to prove Jesus was not thought as God from early Christianity.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

There was also Adoptionism where the Son of God* is divine* but created.

Im sure Islamic sources would have no clue about above.

MJ

 

[jimkhong]

There was also Adoptionism where the Son of God* is divine* but created.

I wouldn’t classify Adoptionism as Arianism but maybe Hatikvah does on a generic Arian basis.

 

[Vico]

I wouldn’t classify Adoptionism as Arianism but maybe Hatikvah does on a generic Arian basis.

There have been at least four forms of it, and it is usually classed as semi-Arianism. It first occurred in the second century taught by Theodotus of Byzantium.

Since Jesus is eternally God, it was countered by Pope Victor I, and at the council of Nicea.