How many popes are recognized?

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seeker57

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I recently read an Associated Press story about Pope Shenouda III having to mend fences with Egyptian Muslims regarding some silly comments made by his No. 1 bishop.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Coptic Church in Egypt also claims the apostolic succession which Roman Catholics prize so highly.

Orthodox leaders I have read about are called Patriarchs, or at least I thought they were.

So, I was just wondering how many popes there are and whether the Coptic Church is considered a separate-but-equal partner with the Roman Catholic Church, and of course, the other Orthodox denominations.:confused:

Seeker
 
seeker57 said:
I recently read an Associated Press story about Pope Shenouda III having to mend fences with Egyptian Muslims regarding some silly comments made by his No. 1 bishop.

I could be wrong, but I believe the Coptic Church in Egypt also claims the apostolic succession which Roman Catholics prize so highly.

Orthodox leaders I have read about are called Patriarchs, or at least I thought they were.

So, I was just wondering how many popes there are and whether the Coptic Church is considered a separate-but-equal partner with the Roman Catholic Church, and of course, the other Orthodox denominations.:confused:

Seeker
Click to expand...
Congregation For The Doctrine Of The Faith Declaration “Dominus Iesus”
On The Unicity And Salvific Universality Of Jesus Christ And The Church
August 6, 2000 Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

“17. Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him.58 The Churches which, while not existing in perfect communion with the Catholic Church, remain united to her by means of the closest bonds, that is, by apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, are true particular Churches.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html
The Catholic Church has 23 ritual churches plus those not in perfect communion: the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian Church of the East, which all have apostolic succession. So there are 14 autocephalous Eastern Orthodox churches, and 6 autocephalous Oriental Orthodox churches, and one autocephalous Assyrian Church of the East.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/index.htm
 
Actually, the question was answered, inadvertently, in another thread about papal infallibility, or the lack thereof.

The Patriarch of Alexandria is indeed the pope referred to in the story.

Most interesting.

Seeker
 
seeker57 said:
So, there is more than one pope and the Coptic Church is considered an equal.
Click to expand...
There is a Pope, bishop of Rome, and then there are some other definitions:

Merriam Webster, Pope:
1 often capitalized : a prelate who as bishop of Rome is the head of the Roman Catholic Church
2 : one that resembles a pope (as in authority)
3 a : the Eastern Orthodox or Coptic patriarch of Alexandria
b : a priest of an Eastern church
 
Vico said:
There is a Pope, bishop of Rome, and then there are some other definitions:

Merriam Webster, Pope:
1 often capitalized : a prelate who as bishop of Rome is the head of the Roman Catholic Church
2 : one that resembles a pope (as in authority)
3 a : the Eastern Orthodox or Coptic patriarch of Alexandria
b : a priest of an Eastern church
Click to expand...
Yep, that is what I learned.

I had never heard the term applied to the Coptic leader before.

Again, most interesting.

Seeker.
 
seeker57 said:
Yep, that is what I learned.

I had never heard the term applied to the Coptic leader before.

Again, most interesting.

Seeker.
Click to expand...
Pope used by the Eastern Orthodox:
Greek Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and all Africa Theodore II

Pope used by the Oriental Orthodox:
Pope of Alexandria and Patriarch of all Africa on the Holy See of St. Mark the Apostle Shenouda III

Catholics patriarchs of Alexandria, not using Pope:
Melkite Catholic Patriarch Gregory III (Laham) is Titular Patriarch of Alexandria
Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria Antonios I (Naguib)
 
I remember reading that in the early Church, the term ‘Papa’ was one of respect, which could be applied to any senior bishop.
But that was then. For me, the ‘Papa’ that I recognize is the Bishop of Rome, the Patriarch of the West.
 
zdon011 said:
I remember reading that in the early Church, the term ‘Papa’ was one of respect, which could be applied to any senior bishop.
But that was then. For me, the ‘Papa’ that I recognize is the Bishop of Rome, the Patriarch of the West.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can see how it changed over time. By the way, did you know that in March 2006 Pope Benedict XVI droped the title “patriarch of the West” (dating to 642 A.D.) because it was unclear, rarely used, obsolete, and impractical?

Rome favored the idea of the three Petrine episcopal sees: Rome, Alexandria and Antioch.

The current titles are:
  1. bishop of Rome,
  2. vicar of Jesus Christ,
  3. successor of the prince of the apostles,
  4. supreme pontiff of the universal church,
  5. primate of Italy,
  6. archbishop and metropolitan of the province of Rome,
  7. sovereign of Vatican City State, and
  8. servant of the servants of God.
 
Vico said:
By the way, did you know that in March 2006 Pope Benedict XVI dropped the title “patriarch of the West” (dating to 642 A.D.) because it was unclear, rarely used, obsolete, and impractical?
Click to expand...
Yes I do, Vico. My understanding was (correct me if I’m wrong) was that it was dropped as an official/formal title, but that the Pope’s de facto status as ‘patriarch of the West’ still remains intact.
 
zdon011 said:
Yes I do, Vico. My understanding was (correct me if I’m wrong) was that it was dropped as an official/formal title, but that the Pope’s de facto status as ‘patriarch of the West’ still remains intact.
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You would have to define what* you* mean by patriarch of the West, since there is no de facto for that term which was always vague and Rome favored the idea of the three Petrine Sees: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch. The Vatican said:

“The renouncement of this title aims to express a historical and theological reality, and at the same time… could prove useful to ecumenical dialogue."

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19144
 
Vico said:
Rome favored the idea of the three Petrine Sees: Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch.
Click to expand...
The article did not make clear what it means by ‘Rome favours…’. Is 'Rome ‘favouring’ the importance of those Sees (over Constantinople, for example)?
Or by ‘favour’, is the Holy Father claiming jurisdiction over those Sees?
Vico said:
“The renouncement of this title aims to express a historical and theological reality, and at the same time… could prove useful to ecumenical dialogue."
Click to expand...
That might be so. But I don’t understand how renunciation of a title that had been anciently recognized by the Eastern Church could be seen as that much of a gesture. Especially as it already seemed somewhat meaningless, as you said, Vico. Perhaps the Holy Father was trying to show the Eastern Church that he is a Pope for all Christians, not just the West.

TTFN, z
 
zdon011 said:
The article did not make clear what it means by ‘Rome favours…’. Is 'Rome ‘favouring’ the importance of those Sees (over Constantinople, for example)?
Or by ‘favour’, is the Holy Father claiming jurisdiction over those Sees?

That might be so. But I don’t understand how renunciation of a title that had been anciently recognized by the Eastern Church could be seen as that much of a gesture. Especially as it already seemed somewhat meaningless, as you said, Vico. Perhaps the Holy Father was trying to show the Eastern Church that he is a Pope for all Christians, not just the West.

TTFN, z
Click to expand...
You can read the full statement here in Italian (Google translate is helpful if you need to translate it):

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_20060322_patriarca-occidente_it.html

But this should answer your question:

“Without presuming to consider the complex historical question of the title of patriarch in all its aspects, it can be said from the historical point of view that the ancient patriarchs of the East, established by the Councils of Constantinople (381) and Chalcedon (451), were related to a fairly clearly defined territory, where the territory of the See of the Bishop of Rome remained vague. In the East, under the ecclesiastical imperial system of Justinian (527-565), in addition to the four Eastern Patriarchs (Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem), the Pope was included as the Patriarch of the West. Conversely, Roma favors the idea of the three Petrine episcopal sees: Rome, Alexandria and Antioch. Without using the title “Patriarch of the West,” the Fourth Council of Constantinople (869-70), the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) and the Council of Florence (1439), listed the Pope as the first of the then five Patriarchs.”
 
Gotta say… I have always wondered if the 2 witnesses are the Roman Pope and the line that the thread starter is refering to.
 
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