How Many Pre Vatican Ii Catholics Here?

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robertaf

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I read a lot of post from Catholic brothers and sisters who yearn for the Pre-Vatican II Church.

I am curious to know how many were there and remember those days.

If not, how do you get your information about those days.
 
I am confused about this poll. The 1st question deserves a yes or no answer. Selecting the question reveals nothing about the opinion of the respondent. Enlighten me. :confused:
 
I also don’t feel the questions suite the nature of this type of poll … it is a bit muddled.
 
Sorry, I do apologize.
I guess it is a confusing poll. I didn’t make it very clear.

My point in asking is this.

We form opinions about history (recent history) by having been a direct witness or by some sort of hearsay.

Either we hear about it from what others say, or we read about it.

So… when I read posts written by folks who love (or don’t love) the ways and customs (head coverings, etc) of the Pre-Vatican II days, it makes me curious how they formed their opinions.

I hope that is a bit clearer.
 
Fair enough … my opinions are rooted in church documents, Scripture and the writing sof the Fathers. It is an opinion that is seperated from the emotionalism that surrounds those that had to deal with the fallout from the Second Vatican Council and is based firmly in tradition and Tradition. For this reason my leaning is toward something more reminicient of the pre-VII days however it is not blinded by some disorderd natalgia that sees the time before the Second Vatican Council as som Golden Age of the Church.
 
When I was Born and Baptized Pius XII was Pope, and I made my First Communion, was an Alter Boy,a Choir Boy and was Confirmed while the Triditine Rite was still the norm. Does that make me a Pre Vat II Catholic?
 
Am I the last surviving person who had 4 years of Latin in my Catholic high school?
 
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puzzleannie:
Am I the last surviving person who had 4 years of Latin in my Catholic high school?
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No. I had four years of Latin in my Catholic high school.

Deacon Ed
 
I was in a Catholic HS when everything changed. I was an altar boy too before and after the change. Mass was in Latin prior to the change. We went through a brief transistional Latin/English liturgy and then we went from singing Ave Verum Corpus to Bridge over Troubled Waters, Sons of God, They’ll Know We Are Christians by Our Love…

It has taken years and years to even come close to restoring the reverence that existed prior to VII. And, one of the questions I ask myself continuously is, is it the music or is it the reverence. Insofar as I can tell one follows the other. If you have a bunch of kids with guitars and drums, etc. a’strummin and a’swayin, chances are it’s not going to be particularly reverent. If the priest and congregation approach the Mass with reverence, well it really doesn’t matter the kind of music.

I sang in a cathedral choir for 18 yrs. Our worst liturgies were the ones with banner dancers, “maids” carrying bowls of incense, the insipid “Muppet” music for diocesan events.

We sang with guitars (played in a classical manner). We had bodhrans, tambourines, finger cymbals, etc. played - in context and in a classical manner. We’ve sung medieval concerts with shawm and crumhorn as well as singing Bach and Beethoven and Mozart.

What is the difference? Reverence. Mass is not some rock or folk concert. After VII when the music changed, it was assumed that all the then teenagers would just jump up and down and embrace the new liturgy. Guess again.
 
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puzzleannie:
Am I the last surviving person who had 4 years of Latin in my Catholic high school?
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c

My son will be taking his 2nd year of Latin starting this year. My other son will be starting his 2st year of Latin. They attend a private Catholic school where David Haas is one of the music teachers. It’s hardly a pre-Vatican school!!
 
I think I should add, that I too experienced first hand the changes from Vat II. Actually, probrably earlier than many other because my father was very active in our parish during the transition that took place after Vat II and pre Novus Ordo. In our parish in Chicago, when this transition began, my dad was part of the group of commentators, who use to explain the parts of the Mass most of us were not familiar seeing. He had to go through several courses on the history of the Liturgy and I got the benefit of those courses.

In high school and especially in college and post college work, my studies on Vat II, the Scriptures, Christology and eccelesiology were pretty intense. (throw in 8 years of latin - I even had a latin course on the writings of the Western Church Fathers) so my theological attitude is very Vatican II.

I guess to paraphrase Gondhi, now if we Catholics would only start practicing the doctrines, dogmas and constitutions we wouldn’t be having the troubles we have today.

But there was that little thing we call the 60’s.
 
When I was in second grade on the north side of Chicago in early 1965, I started learning how the Mass was structured, and the responses in Latin. I had the chicken pox for three weeks. When I came back, all that was gone, and aside from a few responses, everything was in English. Our parents had to rent (ugly) white robes to wear over our First Communion dresses, but we were still kneeling at an altar rail to receive the Eucharist.

Sister Mary Anges was not pleased, nonetheless. We all had to go back to school on our special day off and be enrolled in the brown scapular.

When I was in high school, I started reading the Vatican II documents for my Pius X in Explorer Scouts. The difference between what was in those documents and what was happening in various parishes appeared to me to be two different things.
 
Yes, I’m old, too.

I remember the old latin mass from my childhood as well.

It really set Catholics apart from the others, although its a day which won’t come again.
 
PreVatican II Catholics practicied a different religion from what is being practiced now. This is seen from the way that the two groups approach the Sacrament of Matrimony.

PreVatican II- in 1930 in the USA there were a grand total of 9 annulments for that year.
Post-Vatican II- in 1989, in the USA, there were more than 61,000 annulments approved by the Church for that year.
 
I am a post V2 person. Being born in 1978, I have no memory of Latin and I didn’t learn to sing the Ave Maria in Latin until I was 16 from a non religious voice coach. I realize now that my mother sent us all to catechism thinking we were getting a great religious education (like she did). All we got was unsubstancial fluff. I am now learning my religion as an adult and I am saddened by my childhood education, but I am so far happy with the education my 8 year old is getting at catechism. I am say this with a little apprehension because I feel she is getting something and I got Nothing! Thank goodness I am getting closer to it now though!
 
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stanley123:
PreVatican II Catholics practicied a different religion from what is being practiced now. This is seen from the way that the two groups approach the Sacrament of Matrimony.

PreVatican II- in 1930 in the USA there were a grand total of 9 annulments for that year.
Post-Vatican II- in 1989, in the USA, there were more than 61,000 annulments approved by the Church for that year.
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As my professors like to remind us, correlation does not prove causation. I’m not really weighing in on the argument, seeing as I just started the conversion process, but I thought I’d gently point out the problem with this statement. It’s very possible that the increase in the number of annulments has more to do with the increase in the number of divorces in the non-Catholic world. Even Catholics are affected by the culture around them. You can’t automatically blame Vatican II.
 
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Kielbasi:
Yes, I’m old, too.

I remember the old latin mass from my childhood as well.

It really set Catholics apart from the others, although its a day which won’t come again.
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Me too. As soon as we learned, they changed everything. No wonder many 45-55 year olds are confused.
 
Sometimes the expression “pre-Vatican II” is an insulting epithet that is cast at people who merely simply want to restore reverence for the Mass (and for the Church, in general).

The “old Baltimore Catechism” and memorization is “pre-Vatican II”.

And now, or in the 80’s and 90’s, people who spent their CCD time coloring pictures and making banners don’t know nuthin’ 'bout the Church. They don’t know the “technical terms” such as vincible and invincible ignorance] and stuff like that. It is tough enough for those of us who DID have 12 years of Catholic education to cope with real life. But for folks with NO actual education or training, it is near impossible. [sigh]

With respect to the “guitar mass”, my Dad (rest his soul) used to say that the “reforms” were aimed at promoting indiginous musical instruments. * He said that the guitar is NOT an American musical instrument. It is Spanish. He said that the only indiginous American musical instrument is the banjo.

No banjo Masses, however. Sorry, Dad.*
 
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