How Many Pre Vatican Ii Catholics Here?

[hollingsworth]

Dr. Bombay:

I was born several years after the Council ended. I attended 13 years of Catholic school (including kindergarten). I received almost zero catechesis in that time. I had no clue about certain aspects of my Faith after I graduated high school. In fact, most everything I learned about the Faith came from my parents and reading some of my dad’s books (“Theology for Beginners”, “St. Andrew Daily Missal”, etc.)

I have a real rage problem that I’m working on (pray for me) against the priests and teachers who robbed me of my spiritual patrimony and refused to teach me the Truth. Instead of the Truth, I got “I’m ok, you’re ok”, insipid English missals, stupid liturgical novelties, hippie homilies and an attempt to make the Faith (as they saw it) “relevant” to young people. Which only succeeded, BTW, in making it irrelevant.

I’m just discovering the TLM in the past few years. It speaks to my sinful heart in a way Father Feelgood’s “liturgies” never did. I might add that God has also blessed me by leading me to several priests in my diocese who say the new Mass with reverence and dignity and aren’t afraid to preach the Truth from the pulpit. I’m still still struggling with the new Mass (pray for me again), mainly because I still associate it with the idiocy of my childhood. But as I study it more I realize what an astounding miracle it is, regardless of Rite. And, I think the new English translations will do wonders to further distance in my mind today’s Mass from what I suffered through in childhood.

So, as to the question of if I’m pre-Vatican II…I guess you could say I am, at least in “Spirit.”

The thought of the horror that I went through in the 70’s and 80’s every Sunday and daily during religion class makes me shudder. I wouldn’t return to that time for all the money in the world.

This is a post worth repeating. I was a non-Catholic prior to VII. My wife and I were converted to the Faith in Mexico. We were brought into the Novus Ordo Church, (which, by the way, I unhesitatingly call ‘New Church’). We spent 8 dreary years in the NO until, by God’s grace, our eyes were opened to the “pre-Vatican II Church” and the TLM which, of course, is Her glorious driving, pulsating engine.

 

[steve99]

Dr. Bombay:

I was born several years after the Council ended. I attended 13 years of Catholic school (including kindergarten). I received almost zero catechesis in that time. I had no clue about certain aspects of my Faith after I graduated high school. In fact, most everything I learned about the Faith came from my parents and reading some of my dad’s books (“Theology for Beginners”, “St. Andrew Daily Missal”, etc.)

I have a real rage problem that I’m working on (pray for me) against the priests and teachers who robbed me of my spiritual patrimony and refused to teach me the Truth. Instead of the Truth, I got “I’m ok, you’re ok”, insipid English missals, stupid liturgical novelties, hippie homilies and an attempt to make the Faith (as they saw it) “relevant” to young people. Which only succeeded, BTW, in making it irrelevant.

I’m just discovering the TLM in the past few years. It speaks to my sinful heart in a way Father Feelgood’s “liturgies” never did. I might add that God has also blessed me by leading me to several priests in my diocese who say the new Mass with reverence and dignity and aren’t afraid to preach the Truth from the pulpit. I’m still still struggling with the new Mass (pray for me again), mainly because I still associate it with the idiocy of my childhood. But as I study it more I realize what an astounding miracle it is, regardless of Rite. And, I think the new English translations will do wonders to further distance in my mind today’s Mass from what I suffered through in childhood.

So, as to the question of if I’m pre-Vatican II…I guess you could say I am, at least in “Spirit.”

The thought of the horror that I went through in the 70’s and 80’s every Sunday and daily during religion class makes me shudder. I wouldn’t return to that time for all the money in the world.

I think I have similarities with your experience D. Bombay – but the other way round. My schooling years were pre-vatican II and my experiences of church were mostly negative. I found the Latin Mass very boring and remote; the priest muttering in Latin with his back to us; the alter server muttering replies. We never had a homily, just the occasional appeal for money. Even the annual Bishop’s letter was basically thanks for the money you gave last year, now can you give more this year. My catholic school was run by priests, but I got no catechetics worthy of the name that I can remember. By the time I left I could probably chant several masses in Gregorian chant, and I knew how to lay out a sick room if the priest came to visit, but I never knew that God loved me.

In fact by the time I left I would say I was a practicing agnostic. I came in from the cold about 20 years ago, but even then I was pretty much a “muscular” catholic. My real entry into a life in Christ was about ten years ago through the Charismatic Renewal. I went through a period of anger when I realised that all the formation I was getting, all the teaching, was either through lay people, or from outside the church – I had an Anglican Spiritual Director, and I went once a week to a lunchtime Evangelical service were I heard the Word of God preached in a way I had never heard before. I felt angry that the Church had these riches but, as far as I was concerned, had buried them.

I certainly would not want to go back to, as I see it, the horrors of pre-vatican II days and the Latin Masses.

I guess we all bring with us emotional baggage (good and bad) from our formative years that affect us even after many years.

 

[hollingsworth]

Steve 99: I found the Latin Mass very boring and remote; the priest muttering in Latin with his back to us; the alter server muttering replies.

Steve,
The reason the priest’s back was to you is very simple. He wasn’t talking to you. He was offering prayers to God. You could have participated in that “muttering” by simply referring to the English in your pre-Vatican II missal. The priest was preparing a bloodless Sacrifice for you. He was acting in your behalf, Steve, offering an expiation for your sins and for those of the congregation. He was performing a priestly rite leading up to the of conversion of simple elemental bread and wine into the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ. Are you still bored, Steve?

 

[Dr.Bombay]

steve99:

I think I have similarities with your experience D. Bombay – but the other way round. My schooling years were pre-vatican II and my experiences of church were mostly negative. I found the Latin Mass very boring and remote; the priest muttering in Latin with his back to us; the alter server muttering replies. We never had a homily, just the occasional appeal for money. Even the annual Bishop’s letter was basically thanks for the money you gave last year, now can you give more this year. My catholic school was run by priests, but I got no catechetics worthy of the name that I can remember. By the time I left I could probably chant several masses in Gregorian chant, and I knew how to lay out a sick room if the priest came to visit, but I never knew that God loved me.

In fact by the time I left I would say I was a practicing agnostic. I came in from the cold about 20 years ago, but even then I was pretty much a “muscular” catholic. My real entry into a life in Christ was about ten years ago through the Charismatic Renewal. I went through a period of anger when I realised that all the formation I was getting, all the teaching, was either through lay people, or from outside the church – I had an Anglican Spiritual Director, and I went once a week to a lunchtime Evangelical service were I heard the Word of God preached in a way I had never heard before. I felt angry that the Church had these riches but, as far as I was concerned, had buried them.

I certainly would not want to go back to, as I see it, the horrors of pre-vatican II days and the Latin Masses.

I guess we all bring with us emotional baggage (good and bad) from our formative years that affect us even after many years.

Boy, you can say that again, brother. It seems both of us were searching for something we missed in our childhood and we found it in someone else’s childhood.

There’s an irony there somewhere, dontcha think? Or maybe God’s got a really great sense of humor.

 

[PaulNik]

hollingsworth:

Steve 99: I found the Latin Mass very boring and remote; the priest muttering in Latin with his back to us; the alter server muttering replies.

Steve,
The reason the priest’s back was to you is very simple. He wasn’t talking to you. He was offering prayers to God. You could have participated in that “muttering” by simply referring to the English in your pre-Vatican II missal. The priest was preparing a bloodless Sacrifice for you. He was acting in your behalf, Steve, offering an expiation for your sins and for those of the congregation. He was performing a priestly rite leading up to the of conversion of simple elemental bread and wine into the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ. Are you still bored, Steve?

I know a woman who is Catholic but has begun attending a local Baptist church. She claims that at the Baptist service the Minister speaks to the congregation and the Bible is taught so she actually learns something. She contrasts this to the Catholic Mass where things are said and repeated without her knowing the meaning.
I think what a lot of Catholics forget is that the main focus and purpose of the Mass is to celebrate the Eucharist. Many don’t realize that a miracle occurs at every Mass. If I am correct, the Baptists, as well as most Protestants, believe the bread and wine is merely symbolic and not the true body and blood of Christ. To believe otherwise takes a tremendous amount of faith, but faith is what it’s all about.
I say to all Catholics, be proud of your Catholic faith and heritage. You can trace your Church’s bloodline back to Jesus himself. I only wish that more Catholics had the proper respect and reverence for their church and their priests. The issues I noted in my previous post need to be dealt with or the Church will continue to lose more and more of its faithful.