I
Ilroy
Guest
Which is fine…nowhere in Scripture does it say that Scripture by itself is sufficient…but you knew that already.
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M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Because I read stuff like this in scripture…Myfavoritemartian,
why would you suggest something like this??
*If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. *
And figure Paul is telling me to acknowledge his writings myself…Yet I am told by my Catholic brothers this is wrong???
T
Tom
Guest
This epistle is not the whole gospel. The whole gospel had not even been written yet. The majority of teaching was oral, not written,. To say the written epistles was replacing oral Scripture goes directly against the written Word! So is the written Word wrong? Of course not!!! Your interpretation of it is wrong.15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
They heard and now read the same gospel.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
The Holy Ghost, out of the mouth of Paul, says, “Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good.” Here are two great truths:Which is fine…nowhere in Scripture does it say that Scripture by itself is sufficient…but you knew that already.
1st…The right, duty, and necessity of private judgment. “Prove all things.”
2nd…The duty and necessity of keeping firm hold upon truth. “Hold fast that which is good.”
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Whats the gospel message?This epistle is not the whole gospel. The whole gospel had not even been written yet. The majority of teaching was oral, not written,. To say the written epistles was replacing oral Scripture goes directly against the written Word! So is the written Word wrong? Of course not!!! Your interpretation of it is wrong.
I
Ilroy
Guest
Ah, but Christ never promised that the Holy Spirit would guide every splinter group or individual to the truth…He promised that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to all truth.Only if you demand we need a higher authority outside of the HS to interpret them…
Paul wrote…
“If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual,let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (1 Cor 14:37)
T
Tom
Guest
Who here has said that is wrong? You’re trying to imply a Catholic doesn’t believe Scripture is the Word of God, that’s ridiculous!Because I read stuff like this in scripture…
*If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. *
And figure Paul is telling me to acknowledge his writings myself…Yet I am told by my Catholic brothers this is wrong???
I
Ilroy
Guest
And how do you prove all things and how do you hold fast to that which is good? Christ Himself gave us the answer to that when He gave us the Church which the Holy Spirit would lead to all truth.The Holy Ghost, out of the mouth of Paul, says, “Prove all things. Hold fast that which is good.” Here are two great truths:
1st…The right, duty, and necessity of private judgment. “Prove all things.”
2nd…The duty and necessity of keeping firm hold upon truth. “Hold fast that which is good.”
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Well let me ask you a question… Do you believe the Magisterium, headed by the Pope, is the final and infallible authority in all things?Who here has said that is wrong? You’re trying to imply a Catholic doesn’t believe Scripture is the Word of God, that’s ridiculous!
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
How do you know the part I bolded?And how do you prove all things and how do you hold fast to that which is good? Christ Himself gave us that answer when He gave us the Church which the Holy Spirit would lead to all truth.
T
Tom
Guest
Not to be taken out of context, Catholics do in fact interpret Scripture on their own, however when the Church teaches something we disagree with it is our responsibility to find where OUR error lies. We understand Jesus left His Church to guide us.1st…The right, duty, and necessity of private judgment. “Prove all things.”
www.drbo.org:
If our interpretation of Scripture differs from that taught by the Catholic Church we, not the Church, are in error.2 Peter 1,16 For we have not by following artificial fables, made known to you the power, and presence of our Lord Jesus Christ; but we were eyewitnesses of his greatness. 17 For he received from God the Father, honour and glory: this voice coming down to him from the excellent glory: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 18 And this voice we heard brought from heaven, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.
I
Ilroy
Guest
You didn’t bold anything in the post I was replying to.How do you know the part I bolded?
T
Tom
Guest
Absolutely not! They are the final and infallible authority on Christian morals, and on interpretation of Scripture however.Well let me ask you a question… Do you believe the Magisterium, headed by the Pope, is the final and infallible authority in all things?
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
Lets review the disourse of John 14-17 and see if it says specifically “THE CHURCH” shall we?Ah, but Christ never promised that the Holy Spirit would guide every splinter group or individual to the truth…He promised that the Holy Spirit would guide His Church to all truth.
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
So faith and morals…And over the interpretation of scripture…Is that a fair analysis?Absolutely not! They are the final and infallible authority on Christian morals, and on interpretation of Scripture however.
So it as well infallibly defines the extent of Scripture, i.e., the canon?”
T
Tom
Guest
Let’s see who the audience of this teaching is shall we?Lets review the disourse of John 14-17 and see if it says specifically “THE CHURCH” shall we?
T
Tom
Guest
Absolutely not. The Church has never interpreted Scripture incorrectly. They are the final interpreters of Scripture. We don’t check our brains at the doors of Church, but when we’re wrong, we need to learn how, unlike some who insist their incorrect teachings be accepted.So faith and morals…And over the interpretation of scripture…Is that a fair analysis?
So show me where the Church teaching is “over the interpretation of scripture”.
T
Tom
Guest
Certainly, who did you think defined the extent of the Scripture you read? That’s exactly why we know Scriptures are the true Word of God. They are established by His , One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Where did you think the earthly authority of setting the extent of Scripture lies?So it as well infallibly defines the extent of Scripture, i.e., the canon?”
I
Ilroy
Guest
Fine…start in chapter 13 though…that will show you the context of just who He was talking to…that would be His Apostles…the first leaders of His Church. Doesn’t need to say THE CHURCH here…that was said when He told Peter He would build His Church on him…but you already knew that…Lets review the disourse of John 14-17 and see if it says specifically “THE CHURCH” shall we?
M
myfavoritmartin
Guest
He was speaking to the disciples directly but it was meant for all…Let’s see who the audience of this teaching is shall we?
LOOK…
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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