How many Secular Apostasies will there be?

[spauline]

OK, this is for all you mamby-pamby, liberal, “we know not the day or the hour”-ends-the-discussion theologians:

**675 *Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” ***in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

the section i highlighted from the catechism CLEARLY implies that the Church shall RECOGNIZE [hello, hello, don’t ignore this word, you dismissive persons!], that’s right, RECOGNIZE, when the FINAL manifestation of the fallen nature is upon the world.

again, here is St. Paul, the man of sin is “REVEALED”:

2:7For the mystery of iniquity already worketh: only that he who now holdeth do hold, until he be taken out of the way.
2:8And then that wicked one shall be revealed: whom the Lord Jesus shall kill with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: him

Now, if, as the liberals say, all that Scripture provides for in relation to Church history is that the Church REPEATEDLY goes through trial, tribulation, and triumph, HOW will the Church know when the FINAL apostasy is upon humanity when it is?

Let me elaborate in case you took the short bus to school: let us say, that the modern world will go through a tribulation and then repent, and accept the Gospel again, like it did in Christendom, and then fall away and come back about 239 times, and then, some 50,000 years in the future, it falls away the 240th time, and then that will be the end.

My question is WHY, and HOW will the Church KNOW that? Cuz, if the book of revelation and other scripture and tradition doesn’t tell us anything but a parable of trial tribulation and triumph, how is the Church supposed to be able to recognize that the final apostasy IS the final apostasy?

I mean, why would the world end in the 245th apostasy, and not the 17th? or the 3rd? Are there limits to God’s patience? Why would the world be incurable in the 367th time of great apostasy, and not in the 366th? or the 17th? Or the 789th?

Or is God arbitrary?

Kind of arbitrary, isn’t it.

I suppose God has his reasons, but according to the quote above in the CCC, the Church will KNOW those reasons BEFORE Christ returns.

For those of you who don’t care, just ignore this. For those of you who think, answer the question and still say that “we know not the day or the hour” is the final word on all apocalyptic theology.

Thanks.



ps, i’ve done all the homework: the argument, for those with critical thinking, boils down to only TWO possibilities: either there will be ONE learning experience (an intermediate apostate world chastised and restored to faith, there is peace, and then the second falling away is incurable, the mystics’ version), or there will never be ANY learning lessons, the first great apostasy is the ONLY one (Augustine.)

 

[Luke65]

Did Jesus say, “No one will know the hour or day”? No!

“Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.” (1 Thessalonians 5:1-4)

We are living through a great apostasy, but the Springtime will come. Then will come the Great Apostasy, and Antichrist will scoop up all those who have refused to love the truth. And I’ve been tempted many times to quote the following verse, but I’ll do it now so as not to embarrass anybody:

“Hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky. How is it that you don’t know how to interpret this present time?” (Luke 12:56)

God bless your work, spauline, and one of these days I’ll dive in the End Times threads. One word of advice for you, try to get all of them to disregard any of the prophecies from unapproved messages like Medjugorje, Garabandal, Fr. Gobbi and others which are deceptions. I know of no “Warning” from any true prophecy; I believe we got the last warning, of the Great Chastisement, in 1973.

 

[Muzhik]

I know of no “Warning” from any true prophecy; I believe we got the last warning, of the Great Chastisement, in 1973.

You need to read the biography of Blessed Anna-Maria Taigi, “Wife, Mother, and Mystic” by Albert Bessieres, S.J. and translated into English by Fr. Stephen Rigby. Her visions and prophecies have been approved by the Church. The biography tells of her prophecy of the Great Chastisement, which starts by talking of a Warning. This same Warning was prophesied by St. Edmond Campion on his way to his execution.

 

[Luke65]

You need to read the biography of Blessed Anna-Maria Taigi, “Wife, Mother, and Mystic” by Albert Bessieres, S.J. and translated into English by Fr. Stephen Rigby. Her visions and prophecies have been approved by the Church. The biography tells of her prophecy of the Great Chastisement, which starts by talking of a Warning. This same Warning was prophesied by St. Edmond Campion on his way to his execution.

Are you talking about the Cross in the sky? Because I thought she (or others) mentioned that happening right before the Second Coming. If not, is it online somewhere? Thanks.

 

[Luke65]

Are you talking about the Cross in the sky? Because I thought she (or others) mentioned that happening right before the Second Coming. If not, is it online somewhere? Thanks.

Okay, I see you were talking about the “illumination of all souls”. I’m not sold on that yet, but I had thought that it was supposed to occur during the “three days of darkness”, not before, but I guess I remembered that wrong. But I haven’t been able to find the whole prophecy, and the same with St. Edmund Campion, who I don’t see saying it will be a “warning”. But I’ll keep digging.

 

[SHW]

Hi Luke,

Blessed Anna Maria Taigi (d.1837)

“God will send two punishments: one will be in the form of wars, revolutions and other evils; it shall originate on earth. The other will be sent from Heaven. There shall come over the whole earth an intense darkness lasting three days and three nights. Nothing can be seen, and the air will be laden with pestilence which will claim mainly, but not only, the enemies of religion. It will be impossible to use any man-made lighting during this darkness, except blessed candles. During this alarm, the faithful should stay in their houses and recite the Rosary and beg God for Mercy. He, who out of curiosity, opens his window to look out, or leaves his home, will fall dead on the spot….” 1

“On this terrible occasion so many of these wicked men, enemies of His Church, and of God, shall be killed by this divine scourge, that their corpses round Rome will be as numerous as the fish, which a recent inundation of the Tiber had carried into the city…” 2

“All the enemies of the Church, whether known or unknown, will perish over the whole earth during that universal darkness, with the exception of a few whom God will soon convert. The air shall be infected by demons who will appear under all sorts of hideous forms….” 3

“Religion shall be persecuted, and priests massacred. Churches shall be closed, but only for a short time. The Holy Father shall be obliged to leave Rome…” 4

“The Pope shall convoke a (general) council (that of the Vatican). A new constitution of the Church shall be proclaimed in it…. one after the other all the Episcopal Sees in the Catholic Church, the respective bishops of which were to oppose the definition at the late council at the Vatican…a very short time after the promulgation of the new Constitution of the Church by the general council, the Emperor of the French would declare war against Prussia, by which he would be defeated and made prisoner; that France should be humbled, because she would not know how to profit by her advantages as first daughter of the Church, and the protectress of the Holy See.” 4a

“France will fall into frightful anarchy. The French people shall have a desperate civil war, in which old men themselves will take up arms. The political parties having exhausted their blood and their rage, without being able to arrive at any satisfactory understanding, shall at the last extremity agree by common consent to have recourse to the Holy See. Then the Pope shall send France a special legate, in order that he may examine the state of affairs and the dispositions of the people. In consequence of the information received, His Holiness himself shall nominate a most Christian king for the government of France…” 5

“During this time there shall be a great universal revolution. The priests shall almost everywhere be massacred to such an extent that, in order to find one of them alive, it shall be necessary to travel several days. The churches shall be closed, but only for a short time.” 5a

“Religion shall be persecuted, and priests massacred Churches shall be closed, but only for a short time. The Holy Father shall be obliged to leave Rome…” 5b

“A heavenly apparition shall come to reassure the faithful. Saint Peter and St. Paul will appear on the clouds, and all men shall see them; and, in a supernatural manner, faith shall return to their hearts. Innumerable conversions of heretics shall cause universal edification.” 5c

“St Peter and St Paul will intervene in the election of a new pope” 6

“After the three days of darkness, Saints Peter and Paul, having come down from heaven, will preach throughout the world and designate a new Pope. A great light will flash from their bodies and settle upon the cardinal, the future pontiff. Then Christianity will spread throughout the world. He is the holy pontiff chosen by God to withstand the storm. At the end he will have the gift of miracles and his name shall be praised over the whole earth. Whole nations will join the Church shortly before the reign of the Antichrist. These conversions will be amazing. Those who survive shall have to conduct themselves well. There shall be innumerable conversions of heretics, who will return to the bosom of the Church; all will note the edifying conduct of their lives, as well as that of other Catholics. Russia, England and China will come into the Church…” 7

“At first will come several terrestrial scourges, as great wars, through which many millions will run into destruction. After that will come the celestial scourge in full severity, such as has never been. It will be short, but will cut off the greater part of mankind. Yet, before that, five big trees have to be felled…” 9

“One day, Anna Maria, while shedding a torrent of tears, prayed and offered her actions and sufferings for the conversion of sinners, for the destruction of sin, and that God might be known and loved by all men. Then, God manifested to her the horrible sins of persons of every condition, and how grievously He was offended. At this sight, the servant of God experienced a profound sorrow and, sighing, she exclaimed: ‘Dearly beloved! what is the remedy for this disaster? ’ Jesus Christ answered: ‘My child, the Church, My spouse, My Father, and Myself shall remedy everything. For after a punishment . . . those who shall survive shall have to conduct themselves well.’ At this point she saw innumerable conversions of heretics, who will return to the bosom of the Church; she saw, also, the edifying conduct of their lives, as well as that of all other Catholics.” 10

from CatholicRevelations.org

Pax,
SHW

 

[diggerdomer]

OK, this is for all you mamby-pamby, liberal, “we know not the day or the hour”-ends-the-discussion theologians:

the section i highlighted from the catechism CLEARLY implies that the Church shall RECOGNIZE [hello, hello, don’t ignore this word, you dismissive persons!], that’s right, RECOGNIZE, when the FINAL manifestation of the fallen nature is upon the world.

again, here is St. Paul, the man of sin is “REVEALED”:

Now, if, as the liberals say, all that Scripture provides for in relation to Church history is that the Church REPEATEDLY goes through trial, tribulation, and triumph, HOW will the Church know when the FINAL apostasy is upon humanity when it is?

Let me elaborate in case you took the short bus to school: let us say, that the modern world will go through a tribulation and then repent, and accept the Gospel again, like it did in Christendom, and then fall away and come back about 239 times, and then, some 50,000 years in the future, it falls away the 240th time, and then that will be the end.

My question is WHY, and HOW will the Church KNOW that? Cuz, if the book of revelation and other scripture and tradition doesn’t tell us anything but a parable of trial tribulation and triumph, how is the Church supposed to be able to recognize that the final apostasy IS the final apostasy?

I mean, why would the world end in the 245th apostasy, and not the 17th? or the 3rd? Are there limits to God’s patience? Why would the world be incurable in the 367th time of great apostasy, and not in the 366th? or the 17th? Or the 789th?

Or is God arbitrary?

Kind of arbitrary, isn’t it.

I suppose God has his reasons, but according to the quote above in the CCC, the Church will KNOW those reasons BEFORE Christ returns.

For those of you who don’t care, just ignore this. For those of you who think, answer the question and still say that “we know not the day or the hour” is the final word on all apocalyptic theology.

Thanks.



ps, i’ve done all the homework: the argument, for those with critical thinking, boils down to only TWO possibilities: either there will be ONE learning experience (an intermediate apostate world chastised and restored to faith, there is peace, and then the second falling away is incurable, the mystics’ version), or there will never be ANY learning lessons, the first great apostasy is the ONLY one (Augustine.)

Jesus was(is) a liberal.

Anyway…what? How about doing us all a favor and putting your thought/statement/claim/diatribe/polemic into one sentence? I think it should be easily reducible to such, and if so much easier for anyone to engage in with sincere dialogue if that’s what you’re looking for (which may or may not be an accurate inference).

Thanks.

 

[ryanoneil]

My question is WHY, and HOW will the Church KNOW that? Cuz, if the book of revelation and other scripture and tradition doesn’t tell us anything but a parable of trial tribulation and triumph, how is the Church supposed to be able to recognize that the final apostasy IS the final apostasy?

If you can interpret this quote from the Catechism you might have your answer.
CCC 385:

God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral evil. Where does evil come from? “I sought whence evil comes and there was no solution”, said St. Augustine, and his own painful quest would only be resolved by his conversion to the living God. For “the mystery of lawlessness” is clarified only in the light of the “mystery of our religion”. The revelation of divine love in Christ manifested at the same time the extent of evil and the superabundance of grace. We must therefore approach the question of the origin of evil by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.

Is this saying that the understanding of one is proportional to the other? In other words, no mystery will be left concerning the lawless one when no mystery is left concerning Christ.

 

[spauline]

If you can interpret this quote from the Catechism you might have your answer.

Is this saying that the understanding of one is proportional to the other? In other words, no mystery will be left concerning the lawless one when no mystery is left concerning Christ.

absolutely, and the fuller mystery of Christ is unveiled in His saints, which is to say, we, the just, are according to the letter to Col., “fill up in our flesh what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ.”

Once the spiritual process of the attainment of righteousness in Christ is fully understood, we shall see that Christ bore this in Himself, and hence fully understand Christ.

And what is that process? Catholicism has largely worked it out: THREE stages of the WAY of the Saint: the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive. And Christ bears in His life and events myriads of sets of THREE’s.

He falls three times in carrying the cross. Three times He prays to accept the Father’s Will in the Garden. For three days and three nights, His Body layed in the grave. Three times, Peter denied Christ, and three times he was reconciled.

For three days and three nights, Mary and Joseph searched for Jesus, and only in the third did they find Him in the Temple.

St. Augustine distinguishes five ages to the old law, and the last three are the path of the Jews, which he calls a “prophecy of the Gospel”.

The Book of Revelation delineates five kings of the beast to what was, and three to the Church.

There are eight days of creation (5 + 3).

Three times, Christ speaks to St. Mary Magdelene, and only in the third time are her eyes fully opened.

Three times.

Therefore, that is my theory and the mystics corroborate it.

These mystical threes in Christ’s life are a type of the path of His saints and the people of God.

It is the mystery of the conversion of the Jews: They traversed three stages, that Christ fulfilled so many times in Himself. But this sign merely within Him literally could not convert them. Therefore, only when the same three are walked by the Gentiles and Catholic Church, shall the Jews find Christ.

and hence, three darknesses of the Jews shall be fulfilled in the Church:

Purgative, Dark night of senses: [Egypt, Pagan Rome]

Illuminative, dark night of soul: [pre-Exile Jewish unfaithfulness, Gentile Minor Apostasy]

Unitive, martyrdom: [OT Antichrist Antiochus in Maccabees, NT Antichrist and Great Apostasy]

Christ comes at the end of each of the respective cycles, the first time after the Jews traverse the mystical way, the the second time after the Gentiles and Catholic Church traverse the same way.

In this manner, the mystics’ scenario of one learning lesson apostasy and the incurable one, solves the mystery, whereas Augustine’s vague picture leaves the questions unanswered and inconsisent (no learning lesson, the first apostasy is incurable.)

 

[Luke65]

These mystical threes in Christ’s life are a type of the path of His saints and the people of God.

“He will revive us after two days; on the third day he will raise us up, to live in his presence.” (Hosea 6:2)

“But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years” (2 Peter 3:8)

Hi Luke,

Blessed Anna Maria Taigi (d.1837)…

Thanks for that info, SHW. I put a lot of weight in Blessed Anna Maria’s prophecies, which is why I want to see what she said about the timing of events. Then maybe I’ll be able to form an opinion, always remembering: “Do not despise prophecy”!

 

[ryanoneil]

And what is that process? Catholicism has largely worked it out: THREE stages of the WAY of the Saint: the purgative, the illuminative, and the unitive. And Christ bears in His life and events myriads of sets of THREE’s.

Please remind me how this has panned out in the Church so far.

 

[spauline]

Please remind me how this has panned out in the Church so far.

Church so far:

Purgative Way, dark night of senses: Pagan Rome persecutes

Illuminative Way, doctrinal development: Nicea to Vatican II
Dark night of soul: Minor apostasy, late 1960’s to present.
Currently, we are in the dark night of the soul.

What remains:

Unitive way: Minor tribulation restores world to Rome (except Jews), Age of Peace, Gentiles walk in union with God
Martrydom: GREAT APostasy, tribulation, SEcond COming

 

[mchale]

I think we need to stop worrying about when the end of the world will come. It could arrive next week, yet we may not live to see it. Ultimately, our lives should be lived as if our end were coming tomorrow.

As for predicting the end of the world or the end times, its a fools game. Its why the Church doesn’t make official pronouncements on it. During the Apostolic Age, during the fall of Rome, during Viking Raids, or the Muslim invasions, during the Protestant Reformation… there were always those who were sure that the end times had finally arrived.

Lets stop worrying about the end and start living like Christ wants us to live right now.

–
Bill

 

[SHW]

Thanks for that info, SHW. I put a lot of weight in Blessed Anna Maria’s prophecies, which is why I want to see what she said about the timing of events. Then maybe I’ll be able to form an opinion, always remembering: “Do not despise prophecy”!

If we look to other prophecies from other seers, it helps us to form a time-line of the order of future events.

I think that the beginning of these times which culminate in the three days of darkness is happening right now. Eventually, God will intervene and stop these horrible new universal “laws” which are against His laws such as those which legalize and promote homosexual “marriage,” abortions, euthanasia, etc., that are being forced on persons everywhere today. The stage is being set for the mess in Europe which will culminate in the Holy Ruler (king) who will defeat the political enemies of God. Then the three days of darkness will kill all those still opposed to God’s laws.

“After the three days of darkness, Saints Peter and Paul, having come down from heaven, will preach throughout the world and designate a new Pope. A great light will flash from their bodies and settle upon the cardinal, the future pontiff. Then Christianity will spread throughout the world. He is the holy pontiff chosen by God to withstand the storm. At the end he will have the gift of miracles and his name shall be praised over the whole earth. Whole nations will join the Church shortly before the reign of the Antichrist. These conversions will be amazing. Those who survive shall have to conduct themselves well. There shall be innumerable conversions of heretics, who will return to the bosom of the Church; all will note the edifying conduct of their lives, as well as that of other Catholics. Russia, England and China will come into the Church…” 7

After this happens, then the world will have peace until the old holy ruler dies. Then the Antichrist is born and he comes into his power. I will not live to see the reign of the Antichrist since I was born in the middle of the last century. However, I could live to see the three days of darkness and this clearing of the earth of all those opposed to God’s laws.

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

If we look to other prophecies from other seers, it helps us to form a time-line of the order of future events.

I think that the beginning of these times which culminate in the three days of darkness is happening right now. Eventually, God will intervene and stop these horrible new universal “laws” which are against His laws such as those which legalize and promote homosexual “marriage,” abortions, euthanasia, etc., that are being forced on persons everywhere today. The stage is being set for the mess in Europe which will culminate in the Holy Ruler (king) who will defeat the political enemies of God. Then the three days of darkness will kill all those still opposed to God’s laws.

“After the three days of darkness, Saints Peter and Paul, having come down from heaven, will preach throughout the world and designate a new Pope. A great light will flash from their bodies and settle upon the cardinal, the future pontiff. Then Christianity will spread throughout the world. He is the holy pontiff chosen by God to withstand the storm. At the end he will have the gift of miracles and his name shall be praised over the whole earth. Whole nations will join the Church shortly before the reign of the Antichrist. These conversions will be amazing. Those who survive shall have to conduct themselves well. There shall be innumerable conversions of heretics, who will return to the bosom of the Church; all will note the edifying conduct of their lives, as well as that of other Catholics. Russia, England and China will come into the Church…” 7

After this happens, then the world will have peace until the old holy ruler dies. Then the Antichrist is born and he comes into his power. I will not live to see the reign of the Antichrist since I was born in the middle of the last century. However, I could live to see the three days of darkness and this clearing of the earth of all those opposed to God’s laws.

Pax,
SHW

but Birch makes clear that the age of peace could be extended for even centuries or a millennium by successors of the great king and pope, to the degree that humanity cooperates with grace.

 

[SHW]

but Birch makes clear that the age of peace could be extended for even centuries or a millennium by successors of the great king and pope, to the degree that humanity cooperates with grace.

Many prophesied future things are dependent upon the conduct of humans.

However, knowing what we know about human nature, I think this period of peace will not last long.

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

Many prophesied future things are dependent upon the conduct of humans.

However, knowing what we know about human nature, I think this period of peace will not last long.

Pax,
SHW

i beg to differ, why else would the period of peace be symbolized by the millennium?

You need to move beyond the augustinian status quo. Do you honestly think the dragon has been chained since 313? No longer in heaven, yes, but chained?

Behold, the last 2000 years have been progressively fulfilled across most of revelation 12 and 13. The Millennium is yet future.

 

[SHW]

i beg to differ, why else would the period of peace be symbolized by the millennium?

You need to move beyond the augustinian status quo. Do you honestly think the dragon has been chained since 313? No longer in heaven, yes, but chained?

Behold, the last 2000 years have been progressively fulfilled across most of revelation 12 and 13. The Millennium is yet future.

Hi Spauline,

I have no plans to “move” at present

The millennial “period of peace” is granted in order to convert the Gentiles to Christianity. It is not the fulfillment of eschatological peace which culminates after Jesus’ Second Coming when we are all partakers of the beatific vision in heaven.

The millennium is now, this Church Age in which we live. This “chaining of the dragon” means that “Satan’s power is restrained;” he has not been allowed to exert his full power because of God’s decree. It is not a literal chaining. Satan will receive his full power back shortly before the end of time, during the time of Antichrist, and not before.

Romans 16:20 “And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.”

Revelation 20:3 “and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.”

The Church teaches that the Millennium is the “Church Age.” It is the time of Salvation of the devout Jews of Jesus’ time who came into the Church and also of the Gentiles who came into the Church and are still coming into the Church today. It is the time period between Jesus’ First Coming to earth in order for Him to redeem us, and His Second Coming when He meets His remaining Church in the air and takes them home to heaven with Him.

Satan receives his full power back shortly before the time of Antichrist. It seems like he has received more of his full power in the last century because of legalized abortion, homosexual “rights,” etc. Also, Pope Leo XIII’s vision seems to confirm that Satan received more of his full power in the last century and the present “world condition” seems to bear out this supposition.

catholicism.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_mystical_ecstasy_of_pope_leo_xiii

2 Peter 3:8 “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

A “thousand years” is a symbolic number meaning a long period of time.

More on Apocalyptic literature and peace:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9208otg.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0703fea1sb2.asp

Pax,
SHW

 

[spauline]

Hi Spauline,

I have no plans to “move” at present

The millennial “period of peace” is granted in order to convert the Gentiles to Christianity. It is not the fulfillment of eschatological peace which culminates after Jesus’ Second Coming when we are all partakers of the beatific vision in heaven.

The millennium is now, this Church Age in which we live. This “chaining of the dragon” means that “Satan’s power is restrained;” he has not been allowed to exert his full power because of God’s decree. It is not a literal chaining. Satan will receive his full power back shortly before the end of time, during the time of Antichrist, and not before.

Romans 16:20 “And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.”

Revelation 20:3 “and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.”

The Church teaches that the Millennium is the “Church Age.” It is the time of Salvation of the devout Jews of Jesus’ time who came into the Church and also of the Gentiles who came into the Church and are still coming into the Church today. It is the time period between Jesus’ First Coming to earth in order for Him to redeem us, and His Second Coming when He meets His remaining Church in the air and takes them home to heaven with Him.

Satan receives his full power back shortly before the time of Antichrist. It seems like he has received more of his full power in the last century because of legalized abortion, homosexual “rights,” etc. Also, Pope Leo XIII’s vision seems to confirm that Satan received more of his full power in the last century and the present “world condition” seems to bear out this supposition.

catholicism.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_mystical_ecstasy_of_pope_leo_xiii

2 Peter 3:8 “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

A “thousand years” is a symbolic number meaning a long period of time.

More on Apocalyptic literature and peace:

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9208otg.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2007/0703fea1sb2.asp

Pax,
SHW

i agree this is A layer of meaning, but not the most meaningful.

I see the scenes of the dragon as summarizing all of salvaiton history, and the stages of Christ’s Redemption of humanity. For just as there are three stages of darkness in Church history, and not merely two, so there are THREE primary defeats of the dragon:

From heaven to earth
From earth to the abyss
Into the lake of fire.

The first victory is the triumph of the Church over paganism.

The second victory is the reconversion of the world after the minor apostasy and tribulation

The final victory is the Second Coming.

I’m just deeper than you, ahead of the Church’s long standing status quo. you’ll learn to see things my way.

Augustine gave A solution to the Millennium that sufficed for then.

But behold, as more history progresses, the Church finds deeper meanings.