How money is spent

[need_to_know]

How am I contributing though if my money goes into brick and stone?
I just wish I understood the need for such lavishness…

You seem to have answered this yourself (in a way):

From what I have seen Catholics consider beauty and art a gift from God, and something to offer back to him.

 

[Layman]

The building Christ is worshipped in should, ideally, evoke awe, reverence and a sense of the mysterious. Skimping on a church is a false economy; you’re cheating yourself.

The poor are always with us. If a trillion-dollar bailout won’t kick-start a First-World economy, the Church will not be able to eradicate poverty even if it flogged everything it owns.

It’s prime purpose is to save souls. Care of the body is secondary, by far.

Notice how its mission has been skewed by modern fussing about ‘social justice’ and ecology; political ends.

Who needs another big, white, near-empty building to pray in? More candles, more statues more icons, bigger choirs, stained glass and beautiful vestments, I say!

**Cheap at ten times the price. **

 

[JesuXPIPassio]

The Catholic church in my town is very small and plain. About 4 miles away in a more prosperous town is a more fancy Catholic church that has collected (according to it’s website) over 7 million dollars to add on to it’s building.7 Million? I think it is wonderful that people are willing to give to the church, they should of course, but to build buildings? And why not share with less affluent churches? I am curious. Please do not take offense. I am not attacking. Honestly, I am trying to see the good in the Catholic beliefs and your ways. Please help, Thanks!

I’m happy that you’re taking a moment out to ask these questions. Most Americans would look at it and accuse greed (even though there’s nothing of the sort).

Well, remember that at that fancy church, people donated to it. The expectation always is that if you donated money toward one thing, it should go to that one thing. It shouldn’t be spread to other things.

For example, I remember with that sex abuse scandal, I think in Boston. The Cardinal Archbishop said that the lawsuit settlements would not be paid at all by money from the collection plates. No donations would be used for it unless if the donations explicitly are meant for help with the lawsuit costs. It would be magnificently unfair to divert money otherwise.

That’s pretty much it. It would be nice if less beautiful parishes could benefit from other parishes’ wealth, but also remember that a parish is the gathering of a community; the community of that parish has the responsibility of contributing to it. Members of the more affluent parish may feel shortchanged if they donate to their own parish and have it go to some place they never heard of before, right? It sure would be nice if they would give, but the priests also have the responsibility to follow what their parishioners would expect with regard to their money.

 

[FK04US]

I think that we are forgetting that poor parishes which cannot go on by themselves get financing from their respective dioceses. And the diocese gets its funds from parishes, so in fact richer parishes end up “bailing out” the poor ones. There is so much that can be done with parish resources, it’s up to the bishop to determine the most optimal allocation of those.

 

[Phemie]

I think that we are forgetting that poor parishes which cannot go on by themselves get financing from their respective dioceses. And the diocese gets its funds from parishes, so in fact richer parishes end up “bailing out” the poor ones. There is so much that can be done with parish resources, it’s up to the bishop to determine the most optimal allocation of those.

A diocese may not be able to afford to help its poor parishes. If you have a diocese consisting mainly of poor parishes, the cathedraticum would probably not cover much. I doubt very much that our $370/mo (which some parishioners would like to see us stop giving) is going to help anyone much. I know that many of our parishes are supported by donations from outside the diocese and without those you wouldn’t even be able to afford to fly missionaries in and out on a regular basis.

 

[slyboots]

For the record, I do not have “a church”. One reason I do not is because every time I visit somewhere they either already have a building that took millions to build or they are trying to achieve that. I do not see them just, paying the bills. What bills? Rent or payments to a mortgage? OK, but 10 or 20 thousand a month for that? Electricity? The bigger the building the more it uses. And I could go on…
I went to 2 funerals in the last month and a half. One catholic, one non-denom. Both pretty buildings. The Catholic church invoked a feeling of awe and worship. The non-denom. felt like a mall. Or an amphitheater. Still, both were extravagant and expensive. I am struggling right now with needing financially to go back to work, but I will never make enough money to pay for child care to justify getting a job. How wonderful it would be if a church would spend millions on a free or even low cost child care facility. How much good that would do. No marble flooring maybe, but a community need being met. Just my thoughts…

As soon as the Federal government quits taking 15%+ of my money in taxes I plan on spending a lot more on just such kinds of projects. Of course my husband, and son don’t have to worry about taxes. Their companies ran out of money to keep them employed. The companies that were taxed to death by the government.

Seriously, the Church locally here does things much like this. They feed people. They help immigrants learn English and help them find jobs. They offer low to no cost counseling. The St Vincent de Paul Society is well known in the area for it’s care for the poor and working poor.
Here’s my point, combining the two paragraphs, if the Feds and the state will quit taxing us to death more of us will be able through the Church to do more for people.I despise having to go through the United Way to give money to Catholic Charities and other groups. But because of the tax situation it keeps track of my giving so the feds get less.
I prefer the way I give to the Archdiocese and our parish, directly monthly.
Our Church does immense good with what we give them. And they could do more if the governement got their hands out of our pockets.

 

[ac_claire]

This is a question that’s been on my mind a lot too over the past couple months.

One of the parishes I attend just built a huge new chapel about…I’m not sure but it was less than 10 years ago. It still looks new on the inside. Not exactly a “wreckovation” but it’s more of a modern design inside and out. Everything about the place screams “new.”

St. Louis King of France Catholic Church
The renovation- a “Holy Mess”

Anyhow, they’ve started this huge renovation project costing thousands and thousands of dollars. I know that I may not know everything about the situation, but so much of this just seems unneccessary. The renovations include having the walls (which weren’t dirty btw) “professionally cleaned,” getting new light fixtures, constructing a wall of limestone behind the altar, stripping the floor to add new tiles and taking the pews (which were sturdy and new) completely out for refinishing.

Again, I may be off base here but this seems like a whole lotta cosmetic work. This was already a new church. Maybe it particularly doesn’t sit will because this parish focuses a lot on tithing and giving donations to the church. Depending on the time of year, up to half of the homilies are about giving more money. :ehh:

Now the other parish I attend is the dowtown Cathedral, a truly beautiful church, and when they use money for restorations you can really see where it’s going. It’s, you know, actual restoration…reinforcing the structure, restoring the 100+ year old stained glass windows, fixing insulation leaks, etc. Since I’m officially a member of both parishes (long story) this whole situation makes me want to just not give money to the first parish, but save up all my tithes for my once a month visit to the Cathedral.

So… I apologize for what is sort of a rant, but I’d also like to get some other opinions so I’ll know if my concerns about this are legitimate or off base and needing to be put in check.

 

[Layman]

Clerics wrecking churches is an old theme; the new man wanting to ‘leave his mark’. Happy is the parish that has a PP who is pious and can leave well-enough alone. Happy is the PP that has a pious congregation full stop!

 

[Cluny]

**
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluny View Post
I have a question about how the Catholic church spends it’s money.

Same way your church does–paying the bills.
For the record, I do not have “a church”. One reason I do not is because every time I visit somewhere they either already have a building that took millions to build or they are trying to achieve that. I do not see them just, paying the bills. What bills? Rent or payments to a mortgage? OK, but 10 or 20 thousand a month for that? Electricity? The bigger the building the more it uses. And I could go on…**

As an old priest once remarked, “Salvation is free, but the Church costs money.”

You seem to be complaining that churches are not spending money on you.

 

[Leopard]

…What bills? Rent or payments to a mortgage? OK, but 10 or 20 thousand a month for that? Electricity? The bigger the building the more it uses. And I could go on…

So could I.

salaries for clergy and staff
property and liability insurance
health, dental and life insurance
workers compensation
charities
gas or heating oil
water and sewer
waste removal
pest control
telephones
postage
vehicle expenses
building maintenance and landscaping
parking lot maintenance
cemetery expenses
office equipment and supplies
food
worship expenses
music expenses
school subsidies
senior services
youth ministry
religious education
adult education
and I don’t know what all else.

 

[ac_claire]

I understand of course that churches need to spend money on upkeep and to keep things running, employees, liturgy expenses, etc. But what if you see things being done at your parish that just seem truly excessive or unnecessary? (As I described in post #27).

My questions are:

a.) As a member of the laity who isn’t involved in the day-to-day operations of this parish, am I even qualified to make a judgement call like the one I’ve made in post #27?

b.) Assuming the answer to the first question is yes, then is it ok to withhold tithes from this particular parish, as long as I “make it up” in another way, such as double-tithing when I visit the Cathedral twice a month?

I’ve stopped giving money to this particular church for the reasons I’ve mentioned and I’m just wondering if I’m off base here…

 

[Phemie]

I’ve spoken up when I’ve seen money spent for no valid reason. Thankfully, it was not a large amount by annual standards but seeing the pastor at the time purchase a $1500 Complete Oxford Dictionary (10 or 12 volumes) and charge the parishes for it simply infuriated me. I told him how angry I was that he would charge the parishes for what was basically a toy for himself. His reply 'Watch out, I can get angry too."

 

[ac_claire]

I’ve spoken up when I’ve seen money spent for no valid reason. Thankfully, it was not a large amount by annual standards but seeing the pastor at the time purchase a $1500 Complete Oxford Dictionary (10 or 12 volumes) and charge the parishes for it simply infuriated me. I told him how angry I was that he would charge the parishes for what was basically a toy for himself. His reply 'Watch out, I can get angry too."

Whoa! Unbelievable…

 

[Sheeniac]

Every week, my parish posts the bills it pays, along with the amounts collected. Here’s from this week’s bulletin:

Bills Paid This Week
Only expenditures over $100.00 are listed below. The total
reflects the complete total of bills paid during the past week.
Church:
Health Insurance $4,441.00; Monthly Diocesan
Assessment $2,623.00; Printing $1,500.00; Snow Removal
$590.00; Electrical Supplies $109.00; Sacristy Supplies $957.07;
Collection Supplies $1,733.49; Utilities $383.77; Postage $226.56;
Extra Musicians $260.00

School:
Health Insurance $10,862.00; Printing $6,417.00;
Advertisements $1,284.00; Utilities $692.11; Cafeteria Food
$889.29
Total Bills Paid … $33,126.94

A high level budget is sent out annually. The parish collections subsidize the school and the annual amount is quite high.

 

[Phemie]

In the bulletin we do a monthly, undetailed, income/expense report and compare it to the budget. We publish a detailed annual report but in 10 years nobody has ever called the office to comment or request clarification. I’d be surprised if more than 2 people read it.

We’re working with vastly different budgets: your health insurance expense for the parish is more than we take in in a month. Your expenses for a week are more than a third of our annual budget.