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Shayde
Guest
For me, one drink of alcohol is too much. However, this was not always the case. About 12 years ago, I joined a social club where drinking was the norm. In the center of the main assembly/dining room was “the bar” which occupied at least one third of the entire room. Up until this time, I would drink socially… weddings, a beer now and then… but alcohol was not something that I particularly liked and certainly in no way did I crave it. I met my future husband at the “club” and we spent a lot of time there. Over time, alcohol consumption became a daily ritual… even at home… 5 PM “happy hour”!
About three years into my marriage, my world fell apart. Both my parents were diagnosed with cancer, my brother was in bankruptcy court, juvenile diabetes was taking its toll on my sister and my husband was in rehab recovering from a stroke. I managed to deal with the stress… however, I found myself drinking more and more… and earlier and earlier in the day. It had become my “escape”. As time wore on, I tried to curb my drinking… to no avail. At no time during all of this did I even consider the possibility that I was an “alcoholic”. I should mention, too, that I had become a recluse - on most days, I was plowed under by 10 AM.
To make a long story short… I am a “recovering” alcoholic - three years sober. I do believe that over time, too much alcohol alters the chemistry of the brain to the point of addiction. What is amazing to me is that the only known effective means of treating alcoholism is with a spiritual approach. I attend AA meetings on a regular basis and the most wonderful outcome of all, is that I returned to the Church (after almost a 30-yr. absence) and have become very active in my parish. In this respect, I consider my alcoholism as a God-send… I feel that I am exactly where God has always wanted me to be. Had it not been for the disease, I may never have come to realize how much God loves us and how much He wants a relationship with us. Thank you, God.
I do not hide the fact that I am an alcoholic - nor do I shout it off the rooftops. I don’t feel that it is necessary to explain why I do not drink unless I am being pressed to join-in… and usually my explanation is met with a “no way!”. Alcoholism can happen to anyone.
As is with most things in this life, moderation is the key. Sometimes when asked why I don’t drink, I simply explain that I already drank my lifetime allowance.
God bless…
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Then why did Jesus turn water into wine at the wedding feast at Cana?
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IntegraCatholic
Guest
The answer to this is very simple.
To drink to a point where your judgment is impaired in completing a human act is a venial sin.
To drink to a point where you cannot complete a human act at all is a mortal sin.
To feel good when you drink is not a sin at all, anymore than it is to feel good when you smoke a pipe or cigar or when you eat a satisfying and tasty meal or do anything else that is pleasurable. God created things to be pleasurable, and if they are used in their proper context, they are not sinful.
That being said, it is clearly a sign of an uncultured man to pound back drink after drink without even enjoying their taste (the purpose of drinking primarily–of course, they also nourish the body and relax you, but these seem to be secondary to their purpose because you can do both of these things by other means; I’m willing to re-consider this, though. It seems that each could be considered the primary purpose depending upon circumstances.) Traditionally there are socially appropriate times to have certain drinks (e.g., aperitifs or mixed drinks before a meal, wine or beer during a meal, digestifs after the meal), and simply to go out with the intention of just pleasing oneself and that’s it, is a sure sign that one is attached to the things of this world, and it could be a venial sin if someone enjoys himself inordinately; if he makes the pleasure of drinking his last end, it would be a mortal sin, of course, as this is contrary to the First Commandment.
To drink to a point where your judgment is impaired in completing a human act is a venial sin.
To drink to a point where you cannot complete a human act at all is a mortal sin.
To feel good when you drink is not a sin at all, anymore than it is to feel good when you smoke a pipe or cigar or when you eat a satisfying and tasty meal or do anything else that is pleasurable. God created things to be pleasurable, and if they are used in their proper context, they are not sinful.
That being said, it is clearly a sign of an uncultured man to pound back drink after drink without even enjoying their taste (the purpose of drinking primarily–of course, they also nourish the body and relax you, but these seem to be secondary to their purpose because you can do both of these things by other means; I’m willing to re-consider this, though. It seems that each could be considered the primary purpose depending upon circumstances.) Traditionally there are socially appropriate times to have certain drinks (e.g., aperitifs or mixed drinks before a meal, wine or beer during a meal, digestifs after the meal), and simply to go out with the intention of just pleasing oneself and that’s it, is a sure sign that one is attached to the things of this world, and it could be a venial sin if someone enjoys himself inordinately; if he makes the pleasure of drinking his last end, it would be a mortal sin, of course, as this is contrary to the First Commandment.
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hansa447
Guest
Shayd’s response comes from personal experience, and is most appreciated. I’m glad the thread’s question doesn’t ask “…sinful?” That’s a tougher one to answer.
It seems to me that one reaches the point of “too much” when one comes to depend on it for one or more of its effects. Given the hundreds of ways we can express denial of being dependent, there are a few practical ways of finding out for yourself if you’re starting to be dependent on alcohol:
3: Or you can answer 12 simple questions developed at St John’s University, and used by many groups, such as AA. Here they are:
Answer YES or NO to the following questions.
1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days? Yes No
2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do? Yes No
3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? Yes No
4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year? Yes No
5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble? Yes No
6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year? Yes No
7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home? Yes No
8 - Do you ever try to get “extra” drinks at a party because you do not get enough?
Yes No
9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don’t mean to? Yes No
10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking? Yes No
11 - Do you have “blackouts”? Yes No
12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink? Yes No
Did you answer YES four or more times? If so, you are probably in trouble with alcohol.
These questions are indicative only, not conclusive. But experience with them shows they’re pretty reliable. On final note: they’re NOT to be used to judge someone else!
'Nuff said. Hope this helps.
It seems to me that one reaches the point of “too much” when one comes to depend on it for one or more of its effects. Given the hundreds of ways we can express denial of being dependent, there are a few practical ways of finding out for yourself if you’re starting to be dependent on alcohol:
- If you drink moderately from “time-to-time”, try limiting your intake to two drinks (wine, beer, liquor, whatever - it’s the alcohol that matters) on each occasion when you drink.
- If you’re a daily drinker, try limiting your intake to two drinks per day for a whole month.
3: Or you can answer 12 simple questions developed at St John’s University, and used by many groups, such as AA. Here they are:
Answer YES or NO to the following questions.
1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days? Yes No
2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do? Yes No
3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? Yes No
4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year? Yes No
5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble? Yes No
6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year? Yes No
7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home? Yes No
8 - Do you ever try to get “extra” drinks at a party because you do not get enough?
Yes No
9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don’t mean to? Yes No
10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking? Yes No
11 - Do you have “blackouts”? Yes No
12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink? Yes No
Did you answer YES four or more times? If so, you are probably in trouble with alcohol.
These questions are indicative only, not conclusive. But experience with them shows they’re pretty reliable. On final note: they’re NOT to be used to judge someone else!
'Nuff said. Hope this helps.
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tomarin
Guest
Drinking isn’t intrinsically sinful but if you indulge too much you will be commiting the venial sin of gluttony and also most likely damaging your health. One’s tolerance to drink is different for everyone and depends on factors like weight (bigger people usually can absorb more alcohol without getting drunk) and sex (women can tolerate less than men) and perhaps some other factors such as heredity and race.
My general feeling is that you can drink a little (2-4 glasses of wine, for example) each weekday OR abstain during the week and have more during the weekend (maybe a few beers and a whisky or cocktail) and you’ll be well within the range of drinking gluttonously. But I may have some tolerance and I like drinking as an activity and I find beer or wine with dinner makes the meal more special. If you work all day you want and expect some reward at the end of the day. Frankly – and I agree this may be somewhat irrational – I tend to like and trust drinking people more than tee-totalers (although I understand some people just don’t like the taste). People who don’t drink at all strike me as puritanical (like Cassius from Shakespeare’s Julius Caeser: “Yonder Cassius has a lean and hungry look.”
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JACQUE_D
Guest
My neigbourhood seems to gather at my place at the end of each week mfor drinks and laughs. Unfortunately, my husband drinks till he blacks out. Blacking out for him is being able to drink, laugh, sing and socialize half the night, then ask me the next day what happened in the last three or so hours, as he bhas no recollection. I on the other hand, having the children in the house, can easily stop drinking when I start to feel the effects because I need to be responsible for the kids. On the few occassions that the kids are away, and I go over my limit, I still remember the awful ‘room spinning’ and the horrible end result of vomiting.
Jacqueline in New Zealand
:whacky::hypno:
Jacqueline in New Zealand
:whacky::hypno:
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jegow
Guest
If you passed out I’d say you probably had enough liquor to call it sinful. The headache the next morning is a good indicator that you got drunk. I have skimmed through many of the posts so far and I’ll clarify that getting drunk is a sin.
Drunkenness is a form of intemperance. It involves a loss of self control and becomes a form of gluttony that abuses drink rather than food. Getting drunk is also the person’s handing over of their right reason and their control on their faculties. You may not have done anything you regret but by drinking so much you open doors that are not otherwise there. Also, getting drunk is not good for your health and if you are driving it puts others at risk.
How much is too much - I think it is too much when you keep drinking after you have begun to really feel the drinks. A person should stop once they feel a little flushed or buzzed. I say this because the object of enjoying a good drink (which I do from time to time) is not to get so intoxicated that you loose your functions or your control. It could 1 to 3 drinks depending on the person. The best bet is to know what the right amount for yourself is and to stay with that to form good self control.
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Supercatholic
Guest
I’m not against people having a little drink, but
anything that puts more than a simple smile of contentment on your face is too much alcohol. A respectable amount is one can or bottle of beer, one small glass of wine, or a tiny shot glass of the hard nasty stuff. If you need more than that you have a serious problem. My son was killed by a drunk driver almost two years ago. Here’s some good advice, drink lots of water first to satisfy your basic thirst then have a small drink. Many people drink too much alcohol because they are simply thirsty, usually caused by tension and dry mouth when walking into bars and nightclubs. Try this. Order a soda, a juice, or water. Take your time. Look at how the other people are behaving and then ask yourself “Do I really want to be like them?” If your answer is yes, then please have a sober friend bring you home. No one else should have to feel the grief that I do.
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truth13
Guest
As I get older I believe that using alcohol in an inappropriate way is offensive to God. For one thing, it becomes very difficult to listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit or even to think of God when we’ve had too much. I know I tend to use alcohol as an escape and it has led to some pretty bad things in my life such as drunk driving. I have an uncle who was drunk and died in a car accident many years ago so this stuff really happens to people. The rule I use right now is that I can drink as long as it does not affect the next day eg. tiredness, hangover, etc. I also believe it is probably a serious sin to be driving after having too much. As a woman, I can only have one drink or maybe one and a half at the most and still be ok for driving. It’s probably a good idea to find other ways to unwind at the end of the day and feel great the next morning.
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
I’m sorry for your loss.
You bring up an excellent point. I’m not much of a drinker (“Is that ALL you’re having?”) but I remember attending a Mystery Dinner a number of years ago.
This was the last house in the course of the evening (you moved from house to house for the appetizer, main course, and dessert).
Everyone else had been drinking. A LOT. And they were glassy-eyed and sort of lunging at me, as though I was their long-lost best pal, when I hadn’t even met 99 percent of them. And I remember thinking, “Eww, you don’t even know me, but you’re drooling all over me?”
It was a big house in an upscale neighborhood, and this perspective had a huge impact on me. I never wanted to look like that or behave like that myself.
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Supercatholic
Guest
Thank you Sailor, I know what you mean. I’ve dealt with those type of people too. Isn’t it amazing or should I say disgusting how The USA has a 21 year age minimum requirement for alcholol and we have the highest death tolls for drunk driving. Yet it seems just about all the countries of the world combined can’t come close to the deaths that occurr on our roadways. And their minimum is anywhere from 16 years to non existant. I strongly believe making kids wait that long only causes more problems. It makes getting drunk seem like a glorious status to achieve. I hate to sound like I’m getting off subject, but our nation was very foolish to adopt a socialized health care. It doesn’t work for them and it certainly won’t work for us. However we should adopt their drinking laws. That’s been proven many times over to work for them.I’m sorry for your loss.
You bring up an excellent point. I’m not much of a drinker (“Is that ALL you’re having?”) but I remember attending a Mystery Dinner a number of years ago.
This was the last house in the course of the evening (you moved from house to house for the appetizer, main course, and dessert).
Everyone else had been drinking. A LOT. And they were glassy-eyed and sort of lunging at me, as though I was their long-lost best pal, when I hadn’t even met 99 percent of them. And I remember thinking, “Eww, you don’t even know me, but you’re drooling all over me?”
It was a big house in an upscale neighborhood, and this perspective had a huge impact on me. I never wanted to look like that or behave like that myself.
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conorsdad
Guest
If you have to ask how much is too much and if there is such a fine line between sobriety and being drunk, I think the answer is that its best to avoid alcohol altogether. Is there really any positives to ingesting what is actually a poison?
Would anyone here advocate smoking pot? Probably not, but the truth is that a drunk person is much more dangerous than someone who is high on pot. Not that I’m advocating marijuana either, but its much less dangerous than alcohol, in my opinion.
Would anyone here advocate smoking pot? Probably not, but the truth is that a drunk person is much more dangerous than someone who is high on pot. Not that I’m advocating marijuana either, but its much less dangerous than alcohol, in my opinion.
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Bookcat
Guest
Wine etc is a gift…a good…but it can be abused.
Loss of reason is grave matter…other intemperance ordinarily is venial matter…
Reason and virtue is the guide:
Catechism:
1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74 vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm#I
From the renowned Fr. Hardon :
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33754
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33231
Loss of reason is grave matter…other intemperance ordinarily is venial matter…
Reason and virtue is the guide:
Catechism:
1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. The temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74 vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a7.htm#I
From the renowned Fr. Hardon :
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33754
catholicreference.net/index.cfm?id=33231
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Jesus didn’t change water into pot at Cana.
I wonder whether there is some mystical connection between the revival of an olllld thread and the Yankees loss?
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conorsdad
Guest
Nah…I hate the Yankees…I’m a Phillies fan, so pretty much the same boat this year…I wonder whether there is some mystical connection between the revival of an olllld thread and the Yankees loss?
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Coder
Guest
Hi, I would like to pursue further ananlysis of the morality of the actual effects of alcohol. Also I would like to discuss how this relates to the concept that moderate drinking is OK (and can even be good at least in regards to wine) according to Fr. Serpa (whom I highly trust).
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=27086&highlight=alcohol
When we are taught that moderate drinking is OK does this also include that the effects of alcohol in moderation are OK or we supposed to drink slowly etc. such that there is little effect from the alcohol?
Thank You
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=27086&highlight=alcohol
When we are taught that moderate drinking is OK does this also include that the effects of alcohol in moderation are OK or we supposed to drink slowly etc. such that there is little effect from the alcohol?
Thank You
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j35u5fr34k
Guest
If you are legally drunk you are probably also morally drunk. The general rule of thumb is about one drink per hour.
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j35u5fr34k
Guest
I completely disagree. To be legally drunk it takes very little alcohol. I once blew a .254 and could drive completely fine. I’ve also smoked pot and nearly blew my car through a red light because I was so deep in thought. If my friend hadn’t screamed at me I may have killed everyone in the car. I don’t do any of these things now. I would never smoke pot again and I very rarely drink and never more than 4 a night or so.
Marijuana is very dangerous. Don’t kid yourself or anyone else for that matter.
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Coder
Guest
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=27086&highlight=alcohol
When we are taught that moderate drinking is OK does this also include that the effects of alcohol in moderation are OK?
When we are taught that moderate drinking is OK does this also include that the effects of alcohol in moderation are OK?
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