How much can you trust psychology?

[Lost_Wanderer]

Again, mysticism is a set of laws by which humans are made to operate by design. It’s not about seeing a nice little happy vision from time to time. And if you ever read about contemplative purgation in Dark Night of the Soul and elsewhere, you’d see that this kind of stuff IS a mystical experience. And my purgatory/hell was 11 years, so nyah. And yes it was hell if you want to compare notes let’s have at it.

Sounds like you’re deliberately using your own definitions and then using them as an excuse to be offended. Sorry but that’s just not mature.

Oh and spare me the talk of Dark Night. Only saints get that and that’s only AFTER they’ve come to rely on spiritual comforts.

I’ve never had any that amounted to those comforts to begin with. That doesn’t mean my problems are not worth concern (or even more concern) than that of someone undergoing the Night.

I don’t even see the point in you trying to pick a fight here. It’s clear that your definitions are spelled differently than mine. However, in essence, we don’t even have anything to argue about.

You can disconnect the term ‘mysticism’ with what I’m referring to but what matters is to me is just that. The meaning I’m referring to.

The fact remains that you can’t just solve everyone’s problems by telling them to pray, by telling them that they need ‘spiritual nourishment’ ala a splash of holy water. Yet here you are making an entirely irrelevant rant (which I will no longer waste my time even quoting because it’s based on such retarded premises) and for what? All because you don’t like how I semantically link the term ‘mysticism’ with the foolishness of what I quoted (a quote that wasn’t even yours).

Look you, you can have me use the term skoofablank instead of mysticism for all I care. It still remains that telling someone that they need to pray more or can make all their problems go away by indulging in ‘spiritual activities’ is a lot more socially inept that even I’m given credit for.

One bit of advice I do have. If you learn to listen to others and understand them before deciding whether to shoot them down, people will respond, and maybe they would treat you better.

What’s there to understand about trolls who throw logic out the window and just seek to make your life miserable by being as impudent and obnoxious as possible?

When are you going to quit chiding me for something I didn’t say? Show me the post where I wrote that one should weather life’s storms apart from psychiatry and psychology, or apologize for continuing to falsely accuse me of the stupid things you wish I’d said.

Says the guy who’s responding to a quote that wasn’t even addressing him.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I don’t know LW nor the experiences in his life that have led to his feelings. But to reduce someone’s life trials to something needing more prayer or to a necessary “mystical experience” can be quite bothersome.

EXACTLY! I mean come on. How insensitive can you be towards somebody, when they have so much complicated baggage in their minds, and then all the support you can give is along the lines of:

It has to happen in company of the Holy Spirit for it to sink in.

I mean, that’s it? That’s all you’re going to say? Man, if this is the best advice the most ‘spiritual person’ is going to give, then it’s no wonder people say religious folks are out of touch.

Honestly, instead of telling them to wait for the Holy Spirit to magically appear, why not just talk to them about their problems? Console. Sympathize. Try to make them feel better. Don’t just sit there and let your religion be an excuse for lazy answers.

LW:

my codolences in your trials, you and I are on the same page.

“Jerkette” — I love it!!! I am going to have to steal it.

Thanks. You wouldn’t believe where I actually got it though.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Sounds like you’re deliberately using your own definitions and then using them as an excuse to be offended. Sorry but that’s just not mature.

Wrong. I’m using the correct definitions, and you are using your own to mock mysticism, by telling me, incorrectly, that I was advocating treating mental illness without doctors.

Oh and spare me the talk of Dark Night. Only saints get that and that’s only AFTER they’ve come to rely on spiritual comforts.

Absolutely wrong.

I’ve never had any that amounted to those comforts to begin with. That doesn’t mean my problems are not worth concern (or even more concern) than that of someone undergoing the Night.

Huh?

I don’t even see the point in you trying to pick a fight here. It’s clear that your definitions are spelled differently than mine. However, in essence, we don’t even have anything to argue about.

I’m not picking a fight. I’m simply stating the truth not only about mysticism, but the fact that I never said that doctors were unimportant.

You can disconnect the term ‘mysticism’ with what I’m referring to but what matters is to me is just that. The meaning I’m referring to.

The fact remains that you can’t just solve everyone’s problems by telling them to pray, by telling them that they need ‘spiritual nourishment’ ala a splash of holy water. Yet here you are making an entirely irrelevant rant (which I will no longer waste my time even quoting because it’s based on such retarded premises) and for what? All because you don’t like how I semantically link the term ‘mysticism’ with the foolishness of what I quoted (a quote that wasn’t even yours).

Straw man. I never said anything like that as far as how to treat somebody.

Look you, you can have me use the term skoofablank instead of mysticism for all I care. It still remains that telling someone that they need to pray more or can make all their problems go away by indulging in ‘spiritual activities’ is a lot more socially inept that even I’m given credit for.

I don’t think you need to pray one bit. It won’t work anyway since you don’t believe in it.

What’s there to understand about trolls who throw logic out the window and just seek to make your life miserable by being as impudent and obnoxious as possible?

I don’t know? Show me one and I’ll give you my opinion.

Says the guy who’s responding to a quote that wasn’t even addressing him.

Ah! I knew you couldn’t find where I said that, because I didn’t say it.

You know, I doubt Jesus’s behavior is relevant to your ideas about prayer, but why do you suppose when he saw a crippled man He looked with pity on him and forgave his sins first thing? Because Jesus says “seek ye first” the things of the kingdom and all else will be added. If you don’t believe there is Divine Healing through the Holy Spirit, then for you there won’t be. Simple as that. After we’ve worked on the important stuff, He goes to the next step, “stand up and walk.”

Alan

 

[Samson01]

There is without a doubt a spiritual side to suffering and healing. If one comes close to death and/or spiritual death as well, but recovers, you can bet they will be in a battle to keep their life on track. We are all called to be Saints, just when we hear that call is the only difference here. None better than another, just at different places is all. Samson

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi;
I believe that it is maladaptive to measure oneself relative to others. I contend that with proper esteem, one does not need self-esteem in order to be mentally healthy.

I wish I could say I came about this conclusion by “science,” but it was not. I merely came about this through personal observation. I realize I’m the underdog in terms as taking on APA and that most every clinical psychologist will argue otherwise. Mine is a religious journey and as such, it allows me to see self-esteem and esteem in a different light.

Self-esteem is considered by some to be the quick fix in clinical counseling. Whatever the problem, raise their self-esteem and you will lower “neurotic” symptoms. But the fix is usually short-lived and the patient soon returns.

Self-esteem is also harmful because it too easily turns to pride.

Narcissists have the highest self-esteem because they believe that only they are important, no one else. And no, they are not insecure down deep inside. They truly believe that their ways are the right ways.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Wrong. I’m using the correct definitions, and you are using your own to mock mysticism, by telling me, incorrectly, that I was advocating treating mental illness without doctors.

Whoa! Watch were you point that finger sir. I never said that so why don’t you stop and actually read your responses before you become an even bigger and more confused hypocrite?

Furthermore, I stress that with the way you’re persisting on your own definitions, I thank God you’re not authoring the world’s dictionaries.

I’m not picking a fight. I’m simply stating the truth not only about mysticism, but the fact that I never said that doctors were unimportant.

Yes you are. You respond to a post that was never even addressed to you. After which, you justify it by some retarded semantic juggling and make bold declarations about my knowledge and my character.

If that’s not picking a fight then throwing rocks at a bear is not baiting it to maul you.

Straw man. I never said anything like that as far as how to treat somebody.

I never said you did either. Again, go back and read. I wasn’t even talking to you. And yet, here you are trying to come up with some imaginary beef to have with me. Are you feeling all right up there?

Absolutely wrong.

Please show me an exact quote, from actual Church teaching, that says even the vilest of sinners can suffer what is popularly known as a Dark Night.

And, please do so without the semantic juggling tricks.

I don’t think you need to pray one bit. It won’t work anyway since you don’t believe in it.

Sounds like somebody has a hard time accepting that not all people’s problems can be solved just by sitting in a room with their hands put together.

You know, I doubt Jesus’s behavior is relevant to your ideas about prayer, but why do you suppose when he saw a crippled man He looked with pity on him and forgave his sins first thing? Because Jesus says “seek ye first” the things of the kingdom and all else will be added.

Here’s the difference between that and what religious people should be doing today. Jesus isn’t down here anymore walking about doing miracles. He’s up there.

And honestly, the way you talk of “Divine Healing” is like we’re in some fantasy RPG. So what, God/Christ is just some healing point that we can just rush to and voila? Way to reduce our religion in the same way self-proclaimed ‘spiritual types’ reduce the complexity of people’s problems.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Narcissists have the highest self-esteem because they believe that only they are important, no one else. And no, they are not insecure down deep inside. They truly believe that their ways are the right ways.

Hmm… I’m no shrink but wikipedia has a slight different view. While there are indeed narcs who believe so much in themselves despite the contrary, there can be a logical way to see them as insecure in of themselves.

It boils down to the question (sometimes it’s even a sort of come-back question): “If you’re so great, why do you feel the need to brag about it?”

 

[GEddie]

Originally Posted by GEddie
LW:

my codolences in your trials, you and I are on the same page.

“Jerkette” — I love it!!! I am going to have to steal it.

Thanks. You wouldn’t believe where I actually got it though.

You mean it’s not from the hiddEn shadows of your mind???

ICXC NIKA

 

[GEddie]

I imagine it is possible that somebody who was not a living saint might experience “the dark night of the soul.”

I doubt, however, that anybody without a strong pre-existing prayer life or “mystical side” would recognize it as such.

ICXC NIKA

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I imagine it is possible that somebody who was not a living saint might experience “the dark night of the soul.”

I doubt, however, that anybody without a strong pre-existing prayer life or “mystical side” would recognize it as such.

ICXC NIKA

That’s why it’s good to have a competent spiritual director. I might still be locked up today if it hadn’t been for that.

And yes, I understand Vatican II reaffirmed that holiness is indeed accessible to all, not just the monastic. I couldn’t tell you what document it is, though.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Whoa! Watch were you point that finger sir. I never said that so why don’t you stop and actually read your responses before you become an even bigger and more confused hypocrite?

Thank you for informing me that I’m a “big confused” hypocrite. If you had even a taste of what I’m talking about you’d change your tone and thank me.

Furthermore, I stress that with the way you’re persisting on your own definitions, I thank God you’re not authoring the world’s dictionaries.

I don’t suppose you read the textbook I linked to earlier before telling me I’m wrong about this. Let’s see what wikipedia has to say. Oh that’s right; wikipedia is not a valid source. OK this from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

Mystery - This term signifies in general that which is unknowable, or valuable knowledge that is kept secret

Mystical Body of the Church - The members of the Church are bound together by a supernatural life communicated to them by Christ through the sacraments

Mystical Theology - Mysticism and mystical prayer or contemplation considered from a Catholic perspective, along with a bibliography of famous Christian mystics

Mysticism - Mysticism as direct union of the human soul with the Divinity primarily from a Catholic perspective, but does mention other mystical traditions

So where’s the part about putting one’s hands together, or waving a magic wand, and saying “see it’s all good now?”

Yes you are. You respond to a post that was never even addressed to you. After which, you justify it by some retarded semantic juggling and make bold declarations about my knowledge and my character.

If that’s not picking a fight then throwing rocks at a bear is not baiting it to maul you.

Please show me an exact quote, from actual Church teaching, that says even the vilest of sinners can suffer what is popularly known as a Dark Night.

And, please do so without the semantic juggling tricks.

Why? Who said the vilest of sinners can undergo the Dark Night? I don’t even know if it’s true. BTW why do you insist on official Church documents but you use Wikipedia as a reference to tell others they are wrong about psychological theories?

Sounds like somebody has a hard time accepting that not all people’s problems can be solved just by sitting in a room with their hands put together.

Don’t knock it until you try it.

And btw here’s your straw man again, insinuating that I’m claiming that “just” prayer is indicated for psychiatric illness. Next post you’ll tell me you really didn’t make that claim about me. Just you watch – see I can predict you.

Here’s the difference between that and what religious people should be doing today. Jesus isn’t down here anymore walking about doing miracles. He’s up there.

He’s up there so we shouldn’t expect prayer to be effective.

And honestly, the way you talk of “Divine Healing” is like we’re in some fantasy RPG. So what, God/Christ is just some healing point that we can just rush to and voila? Way to reduce our religion in the same way self-proclaimed ‘spiritual types’ reduce the complexity of people’s problems.

Dude, you are Sooo missing out. I was beyond hopeless according to all the doctors. Divine healing was a major component, because I followed the training I got from my SD and from contemplative prayer leaders (contemplative prayer is a whole different flavor of prayer that you’re not familiar with CCC2700-2724), worked with doctors, read and listened to hundreds of hours of scripture, philosophers, including much non-Catholic stuff. It took 11 years of hard work and study, raising my children in poverty because I was so severely mentally ill, and it’s fixed. The psychiatrist never saw a case like mine before, and he has been in practice over 35 years. That’s because I combined medicine, science, philosophy, AND mystical practices to completely rewrite my whole mental operating system. Mental illness was cured, spiritual weirdness is over, and emotional symptoms vanished. So I’m talking as a person who has been ahead of you into complete healing, and all this before I’m dead. Woo Hoo!

If you don’t want God to have full access to your mind and heart so He can assist with your already good treatment, that’s fine. That’s your business. I’m telling you that miracles aren’t really all that miraculous. They make sense, but you have to know what you’re doing. That’s why I recommend if you really want the Lord’s help with your situation, get a spiritual director. If you haven’t heard of them, ask your pastor about it.

Hardly anything like just walking in and saying, “let’s say a nice little pwayer now and it’ll aww be better” That’s just the straw man you keep knocking down.

Alan

 

[GEddie]

Actually God already has access to everybody’s mind and “heart” (what the cardiac organ is supposed to contain, other than blood, is a mystery to me and I’ll leave it there).

If He didn’t, then you could not hope for any life in eternity. Only God can reinstate your mind on the opposite side of death; and it is your mind that makes you “you.”

Because He already has full access to your mind, prayer can help you there. But it is seldom all that is required, just as God can “miraculously” heal a broken limb, but healing generally will require that it be set.

God Bless, ICXC NIKA.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Actually God already has access to everybody’s mind and “heart” (what the cardiac organ is supposed to contain, other than blood, is a mystery to me and I’ll leave it there).

If He didn’t, then you could not hope for any life in eternity. Only God can reinstate your mind on the opposite side of death; and it is your mind that makes you “you.”

Because He already has full access to your mind, prayer can help you there. But it is seldom all that is required, just as God can “miraculously” heal a broken limb, but healing generally will require that it be set.

God Bless, ICXC NIKA.

You are right that He has access, but there is that nagging issue of putting new wine into old wineskins, so to speak. So it behooves one to condition one’s mind to “take a break” from our normal worldly thinking, and learn to really take advantage of silence when you can get it. Then when you get good at it (it could take weeks or years) you can start incorporating your way of thinking contemplatively, and gain great emotional and mental relief, finding a new form of peace and joy. Lectio Divina, or “divine reading” reaches this level of depth. (contemplative prayer is best covered in CCC 2700-2724)

Thank you for your post!

Alan

 

[BluesPicker]

Whoa! Watch were you point that finger sir. I never said that so why don’t you stop and actually read your responses before you become an even bigger and more confused hypocrite?

Furthermore, I stress that with the way you’re persisting on your own definitions, I thank God you’re not authoring the world’s dictionaries.

Yes you are. You respond to a post that was never even addressed to you. After which, you justify it by some retarded semantic juggling and make bold declarations about my knowledge and my character.

If that’s not picking a fight then throwing rocks at a bear is not baiting it to maul you.

I never said you did either. Again, go back and read. I wasn’t even talking to you. And yet, here you are trying to come up with some imaginary beef to have with me. Are you feeling all right up there?

Please show me an exact quote, from actual Church teaching, that says even the vilest of sinners can suffer what is popularly known as a Dark Night.

And, please do so without the semantic juggling tricks.

Sounds like somebody has a hard time accepting that not all people’s problems can be solved just by sitting in a room with their hands put together.

Here’s the difference between that and what religious people should be doing today. Jesus isn’t down here anymore walking about doing miracles. He’s up there.

And honestly, the way you talk of “Divine Healing” is like we’re in some fantasy RPG. So what, God/Christ is just some healing point that we can just rush to and voila? Way to reduce our religion in the same way self-proclaimed ‘spiritual types’ reduce the complexity of people’s problems.

Dear Lost Wonderer,

 I don't want to offend someone who shares my views. At the risk of losing your labors that supportively improve, nay even to unselfishly patronize my basic understanding of liberation, the existence of evil, and even politics  I have to point something out. I just took my pain pills so this is hard.  Well there is one point we don't share  I just don't understand how you can support imperialism.  The notion that the lessor progress spiritually just by association with the wealthy while working altruistically to improve the material wealth of the few, I don't buy.  This notion that the material wealthy are spiritually wealthy because they have lot of  stuff seems odd and makes no sense.  If anything those who have material wealth should share with those less fortunate in that sense.  So,  I think the materially wealthy could be, but not necessarily so, be less wealthy spiritually and marterial wealth has little to do with spiritual wealth.  Well, other than helping others.  But on this point you confuse me entirely.

  So after clearing the air on all that,  forgive me, but  I do detect an air of undue harshness towards Alan  that appears to have no justifiable grounds in reality.  All Alan implied was that you are narcissistic but hey we all have to like ourselves sometimes? And the fact you never produce solutions to the dilemmas you so pointedly find in the posts of others.....well solutions are hard to find and require a lot of work. And work is messy. 

  But other than that,  I have a question.  Is it card tricks you do or do you pull live rabbits and doves out of thin air?   I have a box turtle named Ezio.  People say he is more my speed but  I like doves and rabbits too.  My friend Sarah has a litte minature Chihuahua doggie named Bellah Angelique (aka Bellah Laghostie because she is white)who hops with the bunny rabbits in the morning.  I had a little Chiwawa dog named Bubba when I was small and Bubba ran outside after dark on the coldest day of that year.  I called and called for my little doggie but found him only in the morning.  He went to sleep on a nest of fire ants to get warm I guess...big mistake.  I cried and cried and didn't want to go to kindergarden.

   Besides all these traumas we all face daily don't you think you could be a little more polite.   Even though  I disagree with Alan and OneSheep on a certain Roar's views,  I like people.  If  I  write antagnositcally it is out of  Christian charity.

Thanks Dear Lost for listening,
BP

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Thanks Dear Lost for listening,
BP

Dear BP,

Thank you for the supportive comments. At this point I’m ready to be free from the bondage of needing to feel intellectually right on all this. With that, all I can say is, brothers and sisters, do not believe the status quo that spiritual exercises and practices are wishful thinking, or smoke and mirrors. They are real, and they do help in addition to the regular medical help available which you should always consult in a problem. It pays tremendously to have guidance, it isn’t just a matter of “praying more” or anything like that. But I ran the course, I have broken the mold, and am telling you there is healing in prayer. You just have to learn what true prayer is, until your life becomes a prayer. There are a lot of people this way. God loves me, but that doesn’t make me special – it just proves God doesn’t have very good taste.

Thank you all for taking so much time with me, pro or con. Either way, it helps me clarify what I believe myself, and besides, without other points of view I wouldn’t learn anything.

Alan

 

[Samson01]

Now I tend to look at setbacks or for a better word, challenges, as a lesson and have learned that healing comes from learning that lesson. In each lesson there is an opportunity to do God’s Will. In being mindful of God in everything, making life a prayer, one may look for these opportunity’s that arise. It can move mountains when everything clicks.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Now I tend to look at setbacks or for a better word, challenges, as a lesson and have learned that healing comes from learning that lesson. In each lesson there is an opportunity to do God’s Will. In being mindful of God in everything, making life a prayer, one may look for these opportunity’s that arise. It can move mountains when everything clicks.

I also like to keep in mind that when the woman touched Jesus’s cloak and He felt power coming out, He told her, “woman, your faith has saved you.” He didn’t say He saved her; He said her faith did. He doesn’t need to take credit; He knows He has power … but note that out of all the people bumping into Him, the one with faith was healed by His power. If they all had faith, he’d have felt everyone around Himself taking power and not just her.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

So where’s the part about putting one’s hands together, or waving a magic wand, and saying “see it’s all good now?”

From what I’ve seen people say in this part of the forums, it’s actually this:

Mysticism - Mysticism as direct union of the human soul with the Divinity primarily from a Catholic perspective, but does mention other mystical traditions

Why? Who said the vilest of sinners can undergo the Dark Night? I don’t even know if it’s true.

You’re the one who said I was wrong for saying only saints and the saint-like undergo that kind of ordeal. I asked to prove me wrong and now you’re saying you have no clue?

How many times do I have to tell you to read?

Don’t knock it until you try it.

I have. I wouldn’t be criticizing it if I haven’t. What next, you’re going to say “You’re not praying hard enough.”?

And btw here’s your straw man again, insinuating that I’m claiming that “just” prayer is indicated for psychiatric illness.

If it hasn’t hit you already, you’re the one making a straw man. I challenge you to quote where I accused you of saying prayer is the only treatment.

I never did. I speak in general terms. If that’s what struck, don’t blame me for you oversensitivity (and excusing it with semantic acrobatics).

Mental illness was cured, spiritual weirdness is over, and emotional symptoms vanished. So I’m talking as a person who has been ahead of you into complete healing, and all this before I’m dead. Woo Hoo!

For you. Again, do you read? I clearly stated before that one man’s medicine isn’t always another’s (it might even be poison for some).

If you don’t want God to have full access to your mind and heart so He can assist with your already good treatment, that’s fine. That’s your business.

Lord Almighty is free to have access to my heart and mind all He wants. What’s there for me to stop Him? Why would I stop Him? He is God. Every day I make countless wishes, while struggling with the daily grind of work, that somehow I get whisked away on a adventure to be free from it all. Everyday I send my thoughts of fear and anxiety out there for whatever spiritual being to hear.

If there was anything I needed, He would know but lest you forget God is GOD. He’s not some genie or healing point that you can just petition at your beck and call. That has been my point. You say it’s a straw man. I don’t care. Why? Because that’s what I was responding to. I didn’t make it up.

I tell you. One. More. Time. Go back and read.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If anything those who have material wealth should share with those less fortunate in that sense.

…or they could use it to raise a family and keep them from suffering the same poverty. Frankly, I wouldn’t give the poor too much moral credit. Just because a person is poor doesn’t make them saints. Just because a person’s rich, doesn’t mean they’re Hugh Hefner. Vice-versa also applies.

All Alan implied was that you are narcissistic but hey we all have to like ourselves sometimes? And the fact you never produce solutions to the dilemmas you so pointedly find in the posts of others…well solutions are hard to find and require a lot of work. And work is messy.

Clearly, like Alan, you don’t read.

And if I’m a narcissist, I don’t know what to make of my brother and his friends.

He went to sleep on a nest of fire ants to get warm I guess…big mistake. I cried and cried and didn’t want to go to kindergarden.

Well I’m sorry for you loss but at least you didn’t spend six years in elementary being hated for everything from bad grades, being fat, being a crybaby, to having glasses and a Pokemon card collection.

You wouldn’t even know how farther below the belt it went when I entered high school.

Besides all these traumas we all face daily don’t you think you could be a little more polite.

Please don’t call me harsh if you can’t see things from both sides. Frankly, Alan’s post strike me as calling me an idiot and I don’t kindly to such insinuations.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

You’re the one who said I was wrong for saying only saints and the saint-like undergo that kind of ordeal. I asked to prove me wrong and now you’re saying you have no clue?

How many times do I have to tell you to read?

You are dishonest with your illogic. You said only saints. I challenged you on it, and you want me to prove an assertion I didn’t make about every last sinner. You know, or should know, as well as I do that you changed the assertion you asked me to prove into one nobody would have made. So you can portray me as stupid, and apparently for no other motive I can think of.

I have. I wouldn’t be criticizing it if I haven’t. What next, you’re going to say “You’re not praying hard enough.”?

You’ve tried contemplative prayer? Did you have a competent leader? I guess you’re right; it didn’t work. I’m sorry about that.

I never did. I speak in general terms. If that’s what struck, don’t blame me for you oversensitivity (and excusing it with semantic acrobatics).

My logic is messed up, right? OK, whatever makes you happy – I’m a fool, everybody look at me!

For you. Again, do you read? I clearly stated before that one man’s medicine isn’t always another’s (it might even be poison for some).

CCC 2708 says prayer life SHOULD progress to contemplative. Go argue with B16 if you don’t like it.

Lord Almighty is free to have access to my heart and mind all He wants. What’s there for me to stop Him? Why would I stop Him? He is God. Every day I make countless wishes, while struggling with the daily grind of work, that somehow I get whisked away on a adventure to be free from it all. Everyday I send my thoughts of fear and anxiety out there for whatever spiritual being to hear.

You stop him with the haughty attitude you’re demonstrating right here in this thread. God can’t help you if you are harboring grudges against others that Jesus died for. Even your ally has come in and pointed out that you are being rude. But what do you do? Step it up into more insults per post.

If there was anything I needed, He would know but lest you forget God is GOD. He’s not some genie or healing point that you can just petition at your beck and call. That has been my point. You say it’s a straw man. I don’t care. Why? Because that’s what I was responding to. I didn’t make it up.

I tell you. One. More. Time. Go back and read.

You clearly have no idea what contemplation is, or you would understand about different ways to open our hearts and minds.

Look, I have no idea what you want from me. I say prayer is helpful, in addition to medicine. I also ask that prayer not be dismissed as irrelevant. Those are my only two assertions; do you have a problem with either one?

Other than that, I totally support your freedom to never pray again if that’s what you want. Your life is your life. I’m offering you a taste of some gifts I got; you don’t want them so I’ve done my bit. In fact, go ahead and make fun of prayers again. Pretend I never even intervened. That would be OK with me.

Alan