How much culpability did I have?

[Monica4316]

A few days ago, I felt like I was coming closer to God again, and I guess the enemy wanted to distract or confuse me with this temptation… but I suddenly got a very strong temptation to think that what Jesus did on earth was not by the power of the Holy Spirit, but by the power of demons. In other words, exactly what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12. I got this temptation in the middle of praying. Unfortunately, my imagination was affected in such a way that I dwelt on this for a bit and felt kind of like I agreed with it, - it’s like for a few moments, I actually felt like that statement was true and didn’t question it. However when I realized what was happening, I resisted it, and changed my mind, and repented. I was able to repent and have contrition and felt peace again.

However, it has sort of been bothering me… because for a few seconds, I didn’t resist it, but actually considered the suggestion and let my mind think this way. However now, I don’t believe this at all, I believe strongly that everything Jesus did was and is by the Holy Spirit, and that there is nothing dark in Him. I have said this to myself and to God several times to get the temptation out of my mind. I don’t have any doubts about Christ… I totally believe in Him.

How much did I sin though? I’m going to bring this up in Confession, because I feel bad about it, but it’s not like the unforgiveable sin right? this hasnt happened to me in a long time… I used to get intrusive thoughts a lot last year but then they stopped after a powerful experience with Jesus in Adoration.

thanks

 

[baltobetsy]

How can you make an intelligent decision to accept or reject an idea if you do not consider it at least briefly? I see no sin here at all. Your final decision - after a few seconds - was to reject the bad thought. That’s a temptation followed swiftly by rejection, what we are supposed to do.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

How can you make an intelligent decision to accept or reject an idea if you do not consider it at least briefly? I see no sin here at all. Your final decision - after a few seconds - was to reject the bad thought. That’s a temptation followed swiftly by rejection, what we are supposed to do.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

A few days ago, I felt like I was coming closer to God again, and I guess the enemy wanted to distract or confuse me with this temptation… but I suddenly got a very strong temptation to think that what Jesus did on earth was not by the power of the Holy Spirit, but by the power of demons. In other words, exactly what the Pharisees did in Matthew 12. I got this temptation in the middle of praying.

First, the enemy may tempt, but God allows it to happen. If you really trust God, then you must trust that you are exactly where He wants you at any given time and place. Do not be sad, temptations are no more or less than our chance to practice what we preach.

Now, as far as the Holy Spirit v. demons, it is all too unfortunate that so many people get hung up in trying to determine their motives and so worried about whether they are pure, consider this. It is NOT POSSIBLE for a human to separate out more than one possible motive. For example, if I’m lending you a kind word because I love you and I want to give you a message, that is an act of mercy, and is selfless. But what if I do it because I want you and others to admire me, thus is evil because it feeds my pride. Now the same act has two motives, one selfish and the other selfless. Let me announce a new theory that the God part of my mind is explaining to me as I go – honestly folks I don’t know what I’m going to type until it hits the screen in front of me.

When a human being has more than ONE motive, there is NO WAY that the human mind can discern through reasoning or examination, WHICH one was more or less instrumental than another. If I give my wife a rose, do I do it as a random act of kindness, or because I give it to her thinking about how nice she’s going to be to me later. This sounds to me like it’s “do I do it because I love her, or because I want her to love me?” One might claim the first motive is pure while the second selfish, but all I know is that I did give her the flower. Whatever the motive, it is still and act that delights her. That is, unless she’s suspicious of you – but you know what? If she falsely accuses you in her mind of nefarious motives, then that is actually an evil thought in HER MIND, not due to my motive, and the Holy Spirit allowed it to happen so we cannot judge it more than we can judge any other of the past, so all I can gather that keeps God omnipotent in my mind, is that God, by the very fact that it happened, is working whatever is happening now or in th past, for His good. What are God’s motives – to tempt us into sin, or to test us to evaluate, strengthen, and practice our faith? Look very carefull at the wording of my statement. This is one way the enemy reads evil into an otherwise innocent statement, and then claims that the innocent has said something blasphemous. I asked whether I’m doing it because I’m nice to her, or because I am thinking about how nice she is to me. These are both true, at the same time. I didn’t say I’m doing it BECAUSE she will then be nice to me, as an evil mind would read it. Therefore, even what passes as a fairly simple statement can easily be reworded by the human mind intent on finding scandal. It’s like, how many people go to the Indy 500 hoping to see cars go around in a circle ad nauseum, and how many go hoping secretly to witness an awesome accident? Notice again, I didn’t say they went BECAUSE they want to see an accident, but that they wanted to while they were there. We dont know, and what does it matter? It is neither illegal nor immoral to watch a car race, so if we want to examine our motives that is fine – that helps keep us self-mortified. But really, it isn’t necessary for anything God needs us to do, including judging for ourselves which of several motives – some good, some evil – actually drove us to do and act that is good or at least devoid of evil.

Unfortunately, my imagination was affected in such a way that I dwelt on this for a bit and felt kind of like I agreed with it, - it’s like for a few moments, I actually felt like that statement was true and didn’t question it. However when I realized what was happening, I resisted it, and changed my mind, and repented. I was able to repent and have contrition and felt peace again.

Trust in the Lord. The temptation happens for a reason and that reason is always love, so even though the devil tempts, in love God allows it to happen.

(continued)

 

[AlanFromWichita]

(continued)

It’s like when a baby learns to walk. It falls on its back end a lot. What if we caught it every time it started to tumble? We’d never let go and let the baby learn to walk if we are so freaked out to see the baby stumble and fall (hint: reference to stations of the cross) that we “save” the baby from the harm of falling and thus prevent it from having what doesn’t hurt it at all but makes us feel bad as parents because we have to watch it fall. We are smothering the baby with excessive show of love, which when not fully understood by humans, we mistake for keeping our children in the comfort zone. Thus they never learn to walk without our help and until we die we feel close and needed, but when we die the child becomes a cripple. Out of true love I wished to save the baby from a fall because I instinctively hate to see my baby experience “pain” or at least what I think would hurt if it were me falling instead of the baby. Out of true faith, I trust that it is the Lord’s will that falling is a necessary component of growth. It’s like I told my son, “if your mother is cold, you put on a coat. That’s not a suggestion, that’s an order.”

However, it has sort of been bothering me… because for a few seconds, I didn’t resist it, but actually considered the suggestion and let my mind think this way. However now, I don’t believe this at all, I believe strongly that everything Jesus did was and is by the Holy Spirit, and that there is nothing dark in Him. I have said this to myself and to God several times to get the temptation out of my mind. I don’t have any doubts about Christ… I totally believe in Him.

Relax. Trust in your faith, in a more absolute way than most self-proclaim absolutists go around flapping their jaws against alleged “relativism” in others’ statements – when in fact they wouldn’t know real absolutism if they ran against an unmoving, unchangeable brick wall made of it. :banghead:

How much did I sin though? I’m going to bring this up in Confession, because I feel bad about it, but it’s not like the unforgiveable sin right? this hasnt happened to me in a long time… I used to get intrusive thoughts a lot last year but then they stopped after a powerful experience with Jesus in Adoration.

Let me make this clear, to a spirit being such as the risen Jesus and a human who has “lost” worldly self through death or mortification – sin and good are interchangeable as necessary, to allow each of us to play out the wonderful “ad lib” roles on the stage of God’s creation and prove to humans that they can be perfected even though they have original sin. If you think I’m wrong, quit thinking. Let your heart lead and your head support, rather than blocking your heart if your head can’t make sense of the unknowable that is known to the heart but not accuratly describable to a legalistic mind through any number of human words.

So if you are born of the Spirit, you don’t have to worry about clinging to your old house when the floods sweep the house away. Take a chance in faith; accept the lift from the helicopter. Let go of the house, it is headed for destruction at the end of it’s “earthly” life. If you cling to the house because you can’t let go of it to save your own life, well, if my faith is as small as a mustard see I have to believe that the Lord will take care of me too. So if I take the helicopter, or if I think the helicopter was a temptation and stay on the “doomed” house, then guess what? GOD CAN AND WILL use that decision you made that everybody thinks your crazy, and use it for HIS good. If the house is our treasure, than we go down with the ship. If we have treasure outside the house and we accept there is NO WAY to stop the house from being destroyed anyway, then we are probably best of ditching the house. Grieve over it, but do not regret your decision to let it go because it was the best decision that could have possibly been made. How can I know that for sure? Well, because even if it was a wrong decision God will (and already has because he doesn’t obey time because He created time) take that decision and make good out of it. The challenge we have is to solve a wonderful mystery to figure out how can we look at human suffering and figure out a way that God can work good from it. If we can get that concept, and learn to apply it, we will not be far from the kingdom.

Alan

 

[MtnDwellar]

1 Corinthians

3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

1 Corinthians

3I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts.