How much focus do today's Jews put on the Messiah?

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The_Reginator

The_Reginator

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I was thinking the other day. (It only hurt a little.)
In today’s world what is the centre of worship and hope for the Jewish people?
I thought that they were probably preparing for the Messiah, just as much as Christians are preparing for Christ’s second coming.
Or do they simply concentrate on their relationship with God?

I realize that maybe this is a broad question with no single answer, but I’d be interested in what the Jewish people concentrate on spiritually.
I believe I’ve noticed at least one Jew here on CAF at times. I’d love to hear from anyone in the Jewish faith!!
 
Real jewish people recognize the prophecy of the coming of the messiah. It was foretold in Mica, Daniel and other Old Testament scripture almost to the year. When the time came, they could not believe. They were expecting something more grand and elaborate.

Now, today in the Talmud, they have a sequence that laments that this foretold time has passed, and God has not sent the messiah. It goes on a few more lines with despair.

So, real jewish people today are confused and may believe they have been forgotten by God. In reality, they did not accept the savior then, and they still reject Him today.

We are their only hope. Try to discuss it with a jewish friend if you have the right moment.

By the way, there are a lot of jewish people that are not orthodox and have in many ways forgotten their true faith. This is a separate matter.
 
The_Reginator said:
I was thinking the other day. (It only hurt a little.)
In today’s world what is the centre of worship and hope for the Jewish people?
I thought that they were probably preparing for the Messiah, just as much as Christians are preparing for Christ’s second coming.
Or do they simply concentrate on their relationship with God?

I realize that maybe this is a broad question with no single answer, but I’d be interested in what the Jewish people concentrate on spiritually.
I believe I’ve noticed at least one Jew here on CAF at times. I’d love to hear from anyone in the Jewish faith!!
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You’re right, there is no single answer - rather like most Christians and the ‘Second Coming’, there’s not a lot of holding of breath going on. 🙂

Messiah won’t be a focus of worship, by the way, and I think that it’s important to understand that the problem of ‘Jesus’ wasn’t that he was like an exam candidate who flunked a couple of tests so that we fail to recognize something that Christians recognize but that the Christian concept of Messiah and the Jewish concept of Messiah are different - briefly, the Christian Messiah resolves problems for Christians that we don’t consider problems and fails to resolve problems that we do see as problems.

Back to your question - broadly, Judaism is a very ‘here and now’ religion - the focus is on what one does in this life rather than what happens afterwards (a subject about which we tend to be rather vague - we don’t share the traditional ‘Heaven or Hell’ beliefs of Christians) and living ethical monotheism.

Of course, there is God and there is worship but even in all the ‘OCD’ aspects of Jewish life we’re constantly brought up against who we are, what we do and why we do it - our relationship with God.
 
so, what are the glad tidings about Jesus in OT. and how do Jews today interpret them ?
 
slave_of_god said:
so, what are the glad tidings about Jesus in OT. and how do Jews today interpret them ?
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I take it that you’re not asking me that question - if, by any chance, you are, then the answers are: “None whatsoever” and “not at all”.
 
rskempf said:
Real jewish people recognize the prophecy of the coming of the messiah. It was foretold in Mica, Daniel and other Old Testament scripture almost to the year. When the time came, they could not believe. They were expecting something more grand and elaborate.

Now, today in the Talmud, they have a sequence that laments that this foretold time has passed, and God has not sent the messiah. It goes on a few more lines with despair.

So, real jewish people today are confused and may believe they have been forgotten by God. In reality, they did not accept the savior then, and they still reject Him today.

We are their only hope. Try to discuss it with a jewish friend if you have the right moment.

By the way, there are a lot of jewish people that are not orthodox and have in many ways forgotten their true faith. This is a separate matter.
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I didn’t realize that was in the Talmud, but I haven’t studied it much. I also know the Talmud calls Jesus a sorcerer, which shows they recognize His historicity and miraculous abilities. Very interesting.
 
scameter18 said:
I didn’t realize that was in the Talmud, but I haven’t studied it much. I also know the Talmud calls Jesus a sorcerer, which shows they recognize His historicity and miraculous abilities. Very interesting.
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I’d be careful about legends about the Talmud.
 
Kaninchen said:
I take it that you’re not asking me that question - if, by any chance, you are, then the answers are: “None whatsoever” and “not at all”.
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… but Lord, these are a stubborn and stiff-necked people …
 
The_Reginator said:
I was thinking the other day. (It only hurt a little.)
In today’s world what is the centre of worship and hope for the Jewish people?
I thought that they were probably preparing for the Messiah, just as much as Christians are preparing for Christ’s second coming.
Or do they simply concentrate on their relationship with God?

I realize that maybe this is a broad question with no single answer, but I’d be interested in what the Jewish people concentrate on spiritually.
I believe I’ve noticed at least one Jew here on CAF at times. I’d love to hear from anyone in the Jewish faith!!
Click to expand...
Here are 2 articles from 2 different Orthodox Jewish sects:

askmoses.com/en/article/227,143/What-is-Moshiach.html
aish.com/jw/s/48883092.html
 
Kaninchen said:
I expect Mormons etc quote much the same about Catholics.
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Mormons submit to the private revelation of one person with no witnesses and no verifiable miracles. They may quote, as you say, but it is only catholics that humbly submit to the true and full revelation of God.

Humility is the key and foundational virtue to grow in holiness. I would not consider people that foster humility as stubborn. It is the catholic faith that started with many miracles witnessed by a lot of people - in the open! There are even miracles in the catholic faith today. Do you deny it? These miracles verify the divine nature and teaching.

When death comes, as it does to us all, I hope you are at peace with your persistent ways. How can you be sure though that you are right in your belief? Will a little doubt nag you up to the last few seconds?

And, would a good and gracious God leave you with no direction in life to find the right way? No! He would provide direction with signature miracles and an office (the Church) to serve over time as a guide.
 
rskempf said:
Mormons submit to the private revelation of one person with no witnesses and no verifiable miracles. They may quote, as you say, but it is only catholics that humbly submit to the true and full revelation of God.

Humility is the key and foundational virtue to grow in holiness. I would not consider people that foster humility as stubborn. It is the catholic faith that started with many miracles witnessed by a lot of people - in the open! There are even miracles in the catholic faith today. Do you deny it? These miracles verify the divine nature and teaching.

When death comes, as it does to us all, I hope you are at peace with your persistent ways. How can you be sure though that you are right in your belief? Will a little doubt nag you up to the last few seconds?

And, would a good and gracious God leave you with no direction in life to find the right way? No! He would provide direction with signature miracles and an office (the Church) to serve over time as a guide.
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To which my reaction is much the same as a Catholic faced with a Mormon or whoever.

Please be careful over forum rules.
 
In answer to the supposed references to the Christian messiah in the Talmud:
see: angelfire.com/mt/talmud/

In reply to the focus Jews place on the coming of the Messianic age and the Messiah Ben David- it is important to realize that Christian concepts of their messiah- in which their messiah was a god in human form, that people are born with original sin and destined to sin and eternal death unless they have faith in the Christian messiah, that the redemption of that sin is through the vicarious human blood sacrifice of the Christian messiah, are all concepts that have no basis whatever in the Jewish scriptures and are an anathema to Judaism. (To keep things simple I won’t go into the Christian concept of the Devil in his struggle to the end of days with God and as the basis of evil or the Christian concept of Hell (not considered monotheistic and both classically pagan from a Jewish perspective).

In Judaism all people are born innocent, with a good and a bad inclination and the potential for great good. All people have (or to be exact develop from childhood) free will to choose between their two inclinations (predestination is another anathema to Judaism). The bad inclination which is one of self indulgence is what may lead people to evil. However, without this inclination people would not get married and have children, get a job and build civilizations. It is necessary to find a balance between these two inclinations. The guide book for the Jew to find this balance is the Torah. The Gentile is judged according to the Noahide commandments. Blood sacrifice, even at the time of the Temple, could not redeem intentional sin. Redemption for intentional sin against another is to be found in restitution where applicable, repentance, prayer and charity. This way may also redeem unintentional sin.

So when Christians speak of their messiah they are speaking of the essence of their faith. When Jews speak of the coming of the Messiah Ben David and the Messianic age they are speaking of a future event which will eventually come but in which the Messiah Ben David plays no role in personal salvation.
 
Wow - as I stated before, … “Lord, these are a stubborn and stiff-necked people”…

Have you looked objectively at the Law and the Prophets in your tradition? Just read them on your own at home and meditate on the words.

Why would God allow the temple in Jerusalem to be razed to the ground about 70 AD?

Can you explain away the documented miracles that ocurred at Fatima Portugal around 1914?

Why are you on this website anyway? You are roaming this space like a roaring lion …
 
rskempf said:
Wow - as I stated before, … “Lord, these are a stubborn and stiff-necked people”…

Have you looked objectively at the Law and the Prophets in your tradition? Just read them on your own at home and meditate on the words.

Why would God allow the temple in Jerusalem to be razed to the ground about 70 AD?

Can you explain away the documented miracles that ocurred at Fatima Portugal around 1914?

Why are you on this website anyway? You are roaming this space like a roaring lion …
Click to expand...
The thread was started by a person who asked a question about the Jewish faith and requested a response by people of the Jewish religion on the non-Catholic religions forum.

As your messiah died before the Temple was destroyed and before the final Temple was built, it is another of the messianic criterion which he did not fulfill, that which states that the Messiah Ben David will reign with the final Temple which will be permanently established (Ezekiel 37:26-28; Michah 4:1; Isaiah 2:2,3).
 
Now I understand. Thanks for the explanation. Welcome!

I found a discussion on this topic that might help.

therefinersfire.org/daniel_9.htm

It covers ground well except it uses the King James version of the bible as the christian reference. Not a good choice.
 
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