How much immorality is too much?

[LittleSoldier]

Your statement shows a deep seated animosity to certain ideas. Television had standards in the 1960s. A gentleman would appear on TV and talked to viewers directly. He told them that the Standards and Practices Department watched everything we watched to make sure it was suitable for the entire family. They set the standard before we knew that anybody did. There have always been limits based on taste and discretion. Certain products were properly regarded as personal and therefore, advertising for them was properly excluded.

A gentleman appeared on the TV screen and spoke “directly” to viewers?



Sorry. It just seems that speaking “directly” to viewers via TV is impossible!!

We had standards that were soberly arrived at regarding the time, place and situation for the discussion of certain personal and private matters. The words clean and wholesome and appropriate meant something. It was properly considered inappropriate to discuss matters of female hygiene around boys, much less on a public television program or commercial.

Oh we did not, for Pete’s sake! TV programs and commercials were there for ONE reason only and that was to provide a profit. The government (called “Big Brother” by some) stuck its unclean nose into business that was well, none of its business.

Modest, clean and wholesome were words we lived by. It was polite, it was considerate and it was proper.

God bless,
Ed

Maybe you lived by them, but who is this “we” you refer to? What does “talking like a sailor” mean? People cursed. They always have. I don’t think you are remembering correctly. I recall my sister being asked if she wanted to be ******* by a “gentleman” leaving a liquor store. She cried and ran home. I was grabbed at twice by teenage boys who wanted to feel my breast. The second one was arrested.

Sexual harassment was common but those of us who experienced it (like me - yes I did experience it) didn’t report it, at least not the women I knew. We became embarrassed, wondered what we had done wrong and then resigned our positions, whatever those were (no pun intended). I was told by my first boss that I would not be considered a secretary until he l*** me on his desk. I was also asked why anyone would want to hire me because as a female I might (gasp!) become pregnant.

When my Mom got married she was fired from her job because she might (gasp!) get pregnant.

And racial epithets were common and blacks and other minorities were mocked and ridiculed on TV (if they were even mentioned or shown).

That is what I remember.

 

[LittleSoldier]

There is a reason that we put doors on bathrooms - just because it’s natural doesn’t mean it has to be on public display.

And sorry, Strawberry, but I just don’t see keeping private things that belong in the bathroom private, as in any way similar to forbidding the little children to come and be blessed by Jesus - what people have to do in the bathroom when they are having their period bears absolutely no resemblance to Jesus.

But it does bear resemblance to God. He is the one who created us and He created women who have periods.

I can’t understand why anything of this nature, which is a purely natural consequence of femininity at puberty and beyond would be considered offensive to God. I agree about some commercials. I remember one at Christmas time. It was a men’s cologne and the top of the bottle burst off and uh, I don’t think I need to go any farther on that. It was horribly embarrassing to watch that with my father in the room.

But menstruation is natural. It’s something we need to know about. And it is part of a creation of a loving God. I admit I was very embarrassed when the commercials started. Now they don’t mean a thing to me. And I’m not embarrassed to watch them with anyone.

Now, can somebody please explain to me why that elderly couple who take Viagra or something like it always appear in bathtubs? That has been bugging me for some time now.

 

[LittleSoldier]

In books, movies, television shows, video games, etc., how much immoral behavior, graphic sex, graphic violence, or blasphemy should be tolerated for the sake of what is good there?

Does it make a difference if the immorality is condemned or supported in the work?

Some examples:
Another thread talked about the Stieg Larrson books of which I think the first one had too much of the “bad stuff” to make me want to read the others in spite of what I liked about it.

My DH likes to watch South Park and Family Guy b/c of the humor in these shows. I find parts of them very funny also, but the blasphemy of the 1st show and the raunchy humor and blasphemy of the 2nd are too much in my opinion to support them.

I do watch and like The Daily Show and the Colbert Report however and see their occasional religious humor as often making a valid point. But sometimes they go too far also, IMO.

What do you all think?

I haven’t turned on my TV in over a year. But last week I was travelling and decided to just turn the TV in the hotel on for white noise while I read. Family Guy was on and I watched it. I didn’t think much of it. But several episodes were shown back-to-back and I became interested in what was going on in this particular series.

I was really shocked. I thought that Family Guy was at times obscene and many times showed no respect for human beings. I noticed that some of the episodes seemed to have a lot of “filler” - flashbacks and little stories that really had nothing to do with the plot of the episode. During one of these the father killed some people.

“Stewie” showed an inordinate amount of inappropriate behavior towards women’s breasts (btw, do the adults understand him or is that some sort of running joke?) and was violent.

It appeared to me to be an offshoot of The Simpsons that had gone bad. The Simpsons is a very funny show and I have some of the episodes on DVD. It goes a bit too far sometimes but compared to Family Guy it’s like The Flintstones.

I’ve only seen bits and pieces of South Park. I wanted to like it but one episode was absolutely obscene. I only saw part of it but I it was so awful I don’t think I can even post what I saw without being banned. And that’s pretty bad.

IMHO immorality, blasphemy, etc. can be appropriate if they add to the plot. Some people are very offended by certain words and they certainly have the right to be offended. But we all know that people use those words in real life so how could a show reflect real life if it didn’t use those words? It’s the same with books, movies, and plays.

I think that if it is extraneous to the plot it’s just there because either the writers or producers couldn’t think of anything to put in or because they feel it attracts people (and I think it does).

I can’t imagine the movie “Deliverance” without that horrid rape scene. But the blatant sex act in “Thelma and Louise” was not appropriate. If it had been left out the movie would have been better and the plot would still have worked. It’s the same with “Dead Calm.” The movie “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest” has obscene language and a partial sex scene yet IMO it is one of the best movies ever made.

As far as books are concerned, I partially read a book whose title I can’t remember. It was full of the most graphic violence I have ever read. It made me nauseous. I couldn’t imagine how anyone could write the things that happened in that book. I threw it in a trash can because I didn’t want anyone else to read it. Later on I found out it was a true story about the atrocities and struggles of German and Russian people in post WWII. I had assumed it was a sick novel but it was really a commentary on our sick society. I should have read that whole book. I would be much more knowledgeable if I had.

So I would say that if it is fiction, if it doesn’t add to the plot it is inappropriate. I won’t watch Family Guy or South Park again.

And I’m glad I haven’t turned my TV on in over a year.

 

[jmcrae]

But it does bear resemblance to God. He is the one who created us and He created women who have periods.

I can’t understand why anything of this nature, which is a purely natural consequence of femininity at puberty and beyond would be considered offensive to God.

I don’t think that women having their period is offensive to God; I just think that portraying it on television is inappropriate and embarrassing for girls and women, when men and boys are watching these commercials.

I agree about some commercials. I remember one at Christmas time. It was a men’s cologne and the top of the bottle burst off and uh, I don’t think I need to go any farther on that. It was horribly embarrassing to watch that with my father in the room.

Which is again portraying a perfectly natural, God-given thing that sometimes happens to men - and, not offensive to God, but really, totally inappropriate to portray on television, even if they were trying to be “subtle” about it.

Now, can somebody please explain to me why that elderly couple who take Viagra or something like it always appear in bathtubs? That has been bugging me for some time now.

The ones I see show them dancing in the streets, or else being incredibly late for something. I haven’t seen the bathtub ones.

 

[havana1]

Maybe you lived by them, but who is this “we” you refer to? What does “talking like a sailor” mean? People cursed. They always have. I don’t think you are remembering correctly. I recall my sister being asked if she wanted to be ******* by a “gentleman” leaving a liquor store. She cried and ran home. I was grabbed at twice by teenage boys who wanted to feel my breast. The second one was arrested.

Yeah, it’s funny how people have selective memories about the ‘good ol’ days.’ In one of his last interviews, George Carlin was asked by Psychology Today magazine why he had such a “filthy” mouth, and he said because it was everybody he was told to look up to - the clergy, the cops, the sailors - all talked that way. I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again: “nostalgia” is nothing but a crock of poopie. The ‘good ol’ days’ are here today.

And am I the only put off by all the sleazy sex talk in the “Family Life” forums? Where’s the decency in that? It reminds me of what Sam Kinison (another late, great, FUNNY comedian) used to say about ‘family values.’

 

[StrawberryJam]

Yeah, it’s funny how people have selective memories about the ‘good ol’ days.’ In one of his last interviews, George Carlin was asked by Psychology Today magazine why he had such a “filthy” mouth, and he said because it was everybody he was told to look up to - the clergy, the cops, the sailors - all talked that way. I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again: “nostalgia” is nothing but a crock of poopie. The ‘good ol’ days’ are here today.

And am I the only put off by all the sleazy sex talk in the “Family Life” forums? Where’s the decency in that? It reminds me of what Sam Kinison (another late, great, FUNNY comedian) used to say about ‘family values.’

Family Life forums are very scary.

I have recently decided to stop considering that forum at all. It is filled with emotion and short on facts.

 

[James_Miller]

Edwest 2, you have convinced me that I did right in escaping the USA and getting to the most Catholic state left. Spain went into free fall (no transitional phases) just Catholic to atheist. What is saving us here (I think) is the language. Foreigners cannot learn Malayalam (I have been here 5 years and cannot learn the “Our Father”). So it keeps a lot of trash out. Go into a restaurant during lent as the first thing you are asked is whether you are fasting. If only “I remember Mama” had been recorded instead of played live,

 

[livnlern]

Yeah, it’s funny how people have selective memories about the ‘good ol’ days.’ In one of his last interviews, George Carlin was asked by Psychology Today magazine why he had such a “filthy” mouth, and he said because it was everybody he was told to look up to - the clergy, the cops, the sailors - all talked that way. I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again: “nostalgia” is nothing but a crock of poopie. The ‘good ol’ days’ are here today.

And am I the only put off by all the sleazy sex talk in the “Family Life” forums? Where’s the decency in that? It reminds me of what Sam Kinison (another late, great, FUNNY comedian) used to say about ‘family values.’

You’re complaining about Family Life forums and at the same time praising Sam Kinison? What’s wrong with this picture?

 

[havana1]

You’re complaining about Family Life forums and at the same time praising Sam Kinison? What’s wrong with this picture?

The “Family Life” forum, with all its sex talk, is unsuitable for FAMILIES. That’s what’s “wrong with this picture.” How much immorality is too much?, indeed.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I don’t think that women having their period is offensive to God; I just think that portraying it on television is inappropriate and embarrassing for girls and women, when men and boys are watching these commercials.

I think I understand what you’re saying because I used to be embarrassed by those commercials. I guess I thought that men didn’t know about these things, especially not my father! I was one of those kids that think their parents never had sex and I don’t know how I got here but it was just that one time or they were confused or I was adopted. But then my Mom got very ill and was hospitalized and my Dad and I had to go buy groceries and I needed something so I just went and got a box and put it in the cart and said “I need these.” It turns out that my Dad knew all about menstruation - he could have fooled me! What’s even weirder is that my brother knew, too, and once had to buy something for me and felt absolutely no embarrassment at buying it at the store (or so he claims; he could be lying but I don’t think he is).

Which is again portraying a perfectly natural, God-given thing that sometimes happens to men - and, not offensive to God, but really, totally inappropriate to portray on television, even if they were trying to be “subtle” about it.

But there’s a difference. Women who menstruate need to know about available products. Women’s products are for our health and comfort. I want to know if there is something available to me to make that time of the month a bit more comfortable as it can be absolutely miserable. But a bottle of a men’s cologne doing what it’s doing really has little to do with what happens to men. And unless the cologne is carbonated it would never do what it does in the commercial. I think that particular commercial was meant to be a covert attempt to entice men and women. But it was so obvious that I don’t think anyone who saw it wouldn’t know what the advertisers were implying (except children who are too young to understand).

One commercial is showing products that are needed by a large segment of the population and there should be absolutely nothing embarrassing about providing the information that is needed by women. Most women are going to menstruate for a significant period of their lives (I don’t know why but that’s the third pun I’ve written in two days and I didn’t plan any of them ). But advertising cologne using the sexual climax as a ploy is an embarrassment to me. It really has little to do with any product that is needed by men. I can’t think of any items that men need to help them with a monthly natural bodily function. To me, that cologne commercial was obscene because it took a beautiful, natural, gift from God and used it to try to get men (or their wives/girlfriends) to buy a cologne. Nobody needs cologne. But women need items for use during the time they menstruate.

One type of commercial is really for a health issue; the other one is trying to trick people into buying something they don’t even need.

The ones I see show them dancing in the streets, or else being incredibly late for something. I haven’t seen the bathtub ones.

I guess the bathtub ones are old and now the couple have had their baths and can dance in the streets. I just thought those bathtub ones must mean something but I never could figure out how an elderly couple in two bathtubs on the beach, holding hands but being separate physically other than the hand-holding and gazing at each other or at the ocean could have anything to do with the product. Weird.

 

[lovemybatman]

I think I understand what you’re saying because I used to be embarrassed by those commercials. I guess I thought that men didn’t know about these things, especially not my father! I was one of those kids that think their parents never had sex and I don’t know how I got here but it was just that one time or they were confused or I was adopted. But then my Mom got very ill and was hospitalized and my Dad and I had to go buy groceries and I needed something so I just went and got a box and put it in the cart and said “I need these.” It turns out that my Dad knew all about menstruation - he could have fooled me! What’s even weirder is that my brother knew, too, and once had to buy something for me and felt absolutely no embarrassment at buying it at the store (or so he claims; he could be lying but I don’t think he is).

But there’s a difference. Women who menstruate need to know about available products. Women’s products are for our health and comfort. I want to know if there is something available to me to make that time of the month a bit more comfortable as it can be absolutely miserable. But a bottle of a men’s cologne doing what it’s doing really has little to do with what happens to men. And unless the cologne is carbonated it would never do what it does in the commercial. I think that particular commercial was meant to be a covert attempt to entice men and women. But it was so obvious that I don’t think anyone who saw it wouldn’t know what the advertisers were implying (except children who are too young to understand).

One commercial is showing products that are needed by a large segment of the population and there should be absolutely nothing embarrassing about providing the information that is needed by women. Most women are going to menstruate for a significant period of their lives (I don’t know why but that’s the third pun I’ve written in two days and I didn’t plan any of them ). But advertising cologne using the sexual climax as a ploy is an embarrassment to me. It really has little to do with any product that is needed by men. I can’t think of any items that men need to help them with a monthly natural bodily function. To me, that cologne commercial was obscene because it took a beautiful, natural, gift from God and used it to try to get men (or their wives/girlfriends) to buy a cologne. Nobody needs cologne. But women need items for use during the time they menstruate.

One type of commercial is really for a health issue; the other one is trying to trick people into buying something they don’t even need.

I guess the bathtub ones are old and now the couple have had their baths and can dance in the streets. I just thought those bathtub ones must mean something but I never could figure out how an elderly couple in two bathtubs on the beach, holding hands but being separate physically other than the hand-holding and gazing at each other or at the ocean could have anything to do with the product. Weird.

I completely and utterly agree with your assessment. Women are socialized to be embarassed and ashamed of periods and I think that’s why some get embarassed at the commercials, but as you said it’s a HEALTH consideration and nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about. That doesn’t mean I’m going to start a conversation about my pads whilst in line at the grocery store, but I refuse to be ashamed of a natural process created by God. The cologne commerical you described is a sleazy ad that’s using sex to sell cologne. Much worse.

And though television was indeed much much “cleaner” in the 50s and all that, it was also filled with horrible jokes and promotions of very UNChristian behavior, such as racism and sexism, which was considered okay by many… From a very popular 50s TV show: “One of these days, Alice…pow, right in the kisser! Straight to the moon!” Yeah, that’s “clean and wholesome” television right there, making jokes about the beating of women. (I pretty much hate television personally regardless of the era from which I am viewing something.) And when I was a kid I had a videotape with a ton of old children’s cartoons from the 40s-60s…some of them were absolutely awful with regards to making fun of black people, we’re talking giant red lips, horrible singing, making fun of the poverty… It makes me sick to my stomach to think about them. And have any of you seen The Seven Year Itch? It’s filled with sexual innuendo. It’s just way more subtle than what we have now. “Better”, in a way, but really, humans have always been humans, it’s the standards that change, and what is okay to discuss in a public space.

 

[livnlern]

The “Family Life” forum, with all its sex talk, is unsuitable for FAMILIES. That’s what’s “wrong with this picture.” How much immorality is too much?, indeed.

Aren’t marriages part of families? Isn’t sex a part of marriage? Don’t people have problems associated with sex? That’s the idea behind having a forum where questions can be asked with honesty and answered by others who have had the same problems.
My real question is this: How can you be offended by what’s discussed in Family Life forum and then go on to praise someone like Sam Kinison who’s every other word was an expletive, who made fun of Christianity, who’s humor had no redeeming factors to it?

 

[jmcrae]

But there’s a difference. Women who menstruate need to know about available products. Women’s products are for our health and comfort. I want to know if there is something available to me to make that time of the month a bit more comfortable as it can be absolutely miserable.

There are such things as women’s magazines - that’s where these things used to be advertised, before they got on to television.

 

[LittleSoldier]

There are such things as women’s magazines - that’s where these things used to be advertised, before they got on to television.

Do you think that’s where the ads should still be? If so, why is it better in your opinion for a woman to have to buy a magazine or surreptitiously read through one in order to find the ads for those products when she can see the same thing on TV for free?

Why should women be embarrassed about menstruation? Is there something immoral about it? Just about every woman I know has gone through a time where she was absolutely mortified at the thought of people knowing she might be having her period. I was the same way. I knocked my purse over one day and some tampons fell out and I wanted to fall through the floor down to the center of the earth and never come back. Why did I feel that way? It’s not like women have any control over this bodily function and it actually is part of one of the most precious gifts that any human being could be given - the opportunity to have a child.

It’s not a sin. It’s not obscene. It’s not immoral. It’s a good thing, even though it can be painful and uncomfortable.

If it’s not a sin and it’s not obscene and it’s not immoral why should it be hidden from people? Why hide the ads in a magazine? I think children should be exposed to those ads and I have not done any research on this (so it’s only my opinion) but I think that if children grow up knowing that women have periods some of the stigma about it will disappear. Maybe most of the stigma will disappear. Maybe when some man makes a disgusting joke about menstruating women other men will look at him and say “Hey, what’s the big deal? What’s so funny?”

And every man should know that his mother went through menstruation and if she hadn’t he would not even be here on this earth.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you think that’s where the ads should still be? If so, why is it better in your opinion for a woman to have to buy a magazine or surreptitiously read through one in order to find the ads for those products when she can see the same thing on TV for free?

Why should women be embarrassed about menstruation? Is there something immoral about it?

There is nothing immoral about it - it’s just private.

Just about every woman I know has gone through a time where she was absolutely mortified at the thought of people knowing she might be having her period. I was the same way. I knocked my purse over one day and some tampons fell out and I wanted to fall through the floor down to the center of the earth and never come back.

I feel like that too - I also feel that way if my bank book falls out and opens up to the page where my balance is listed.

Some information is private. It’s not “immoral” to have your period, and it’s not “immoral” to be poor (or rich, as the case may be), but some information is just nobody else’s business.

 

[LittleSoldier]

You become stressed out about certain things. Where is biology mentioned in the Bible? I thought it was not to be regarded as a science book.

Peace,
Ed

en.allexperts.com/q/Bible-Studies-1654/BIOLOGY-SCRIPTURES.htm

icr.org/article/bible-or-biology/

fae.adventist.org/essays/26Bcc_163-178.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_the_Bible#Biology

clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

biologyreference.com/Gr-Hi/History-of-Plant-Physiology.html

aiias.edu/ict/vol_26B/26Bcc_163-178.pdf

planetprose.com/2010/10/05/people-society/what-does-the-bible-say-about-biology/

 

[LittleSoldier]

One more:

books.google.com/books?id=aDuy3p5QvEYC&pg=PA234&lpg=PA234&dq=microbiology+in+the+bible&source=bl&ots=YInsVJgB2b&sig=J8roE0Q7MICjNtJvH6TPUvHi6hs&hl=en&ei=yzzYTObiBZKcsQO06uiNCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCUQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=microbiology%20in%20the%20bible&f=false

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

There are such things as women’s magazines - that’s where these things used to be advertised, before they got on to television.

“Women’s Magazines”??? You mean like “Cosmo”, “Glamour”, and “Allure”. Those trashy “fashion” magazines that scream SEX from the checkout lanes? Seriously??

Seriously???

So, I guess if I want to hear about a new tampon or pain reliever geared towards menstrual cramps, I need to purchase a magazine such as those with a scantily-clad cover models and articles about “his special spot” and “things to do in the bedroom to drive your boyfriend wild”
displayed on the cover?

C’mon, “jmcrae”…get real! Magazines such as Family Circle and Women’s Day are geared more towards post-menopausal women and have ads about hormone replacement, not “feminine hygiene”.

When “Faith & Family” starts advertising the newest and most comfortable feminine product, then I’ll have a magazine that I can read about those products in…until then, it’s TV.

Most of those commercials show up during programs that are geared for women anyway. Although there are a few exceptions, I don’t ever recall seeing a Tampax or Midol ad during the commerical break of a sports program (except figure skating or gymnastics) or an action/adventure show.

 

[jmcrae]

“Women’s Magazines”??? You mean like “Cosmo”, “Glamour”, and “Allure”. Those trashy “fashion” magazines that scream SEX from the checkout lanes? Seriously??

NO, I am talking about Chatelaine, Readers’ Digest, and Best of Bridge, and magazines like that.

In any case, if you are looking for a product, rather than just passively having them pushed in your face, you can always ask at the pharmacy.

Most of those commercials show up during programs that are geared for women anyway. Although there are a few exceptions, I don’t ever recall seeing a Tampax or Midol ad during the commerical break of a sports program (except figure skating or gymnastics) or an action/adventure show.

Well, I see them during CSI (definitely “Action/Adventure”), and even during Merlin and Dr. Who, which are kids’ shows.

 

[ThereseOfRoses]

NO, I am talking about Chatelaine, Readers’ Digest, and Best of Bridge, and magazines like that.

In any case, if you are looking for a product, rather than just passively having them pushed in your face, you can always ask at the pharmacy.

Well, I see them during CSI (definitely “Action/Adventure”), and even during Merlin and Dr. Who, which are kids’ shows. /

Nothing like asking the 20 year-old male pharmacy tech about tampons…he’d point and tell you which aisle to look in

With “action/adventure”, I was thinking something with Bruce Willis or Arnold…not a prime time crime drama. They show those awful “cialis” commercials then, too.