How much immorality is too much?

[LittleSoldier]

My only point is that Ed was never, ever thinking of Spanish-speaking people when he used the term, and for people of my generation, that term has absolutely nothing to do with speaking Spanish. I don’t know why you keep insisting that we are trying to insult Spanish-speaking people, when we have clearly explained that we are not.

I would like to submit the following points:
(1) You don’t know what Ed was thinking. You are not Ed.
(2) I asked Ed for the definition of a greaser.
(3) You, and everyone else, was informed that it is a derogatory term used for people of Hispanic descent.
(4) Nobody has said that Ed or you or anyone else is trying to insult Spanish-speaking people.
(5) “Greaser” is not a Spanish word. It is an English word, used in the United States, and is still used to insult those of Hispanic origin. If you don’t believe me, go to East L.A. and call someone that name and see what happens. If you called certain Hispanic people in El Modena, CA, that term, you would most likely be killed. I am not kidding. I worked there in law enforcement, with the Sheriff’s Dept.
(6) I don’t know your age, nor am I interested in it. For you to use it as a defense is meaningless. For all I know you could be 94 years old. Or 12.
(7) It doesn’t matter how old you are or what generation you claim to belong to. The word is derogatory. So it should not be used.
(8) You appear to have turned this whole thing into a joke. You also used another derogatory term, although to your credit you removed it from your post. Unfortunately another poster had already responded.
(9) Ed answered my question and it was only then that I realized he was not using it as a racial epithet.
(10) Another poster tried and tried to explain the term to you but you wouldn’t let it go.
(11) I don’t care if the word is not used as a derogatory term where you live or where Ed lives. The fact is that it is still used as a derogatory term in parts of the United States.
(12) We should show respect and love for others. Using derogatory terms shows a lack of charity.
(13) Now that you know the word is derogatory you are better informed and probably won’t ever use it in an insulting manner without meaning to.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Hello again,

Thanks for the reply. In a manner of speaking, I am one of “those who grant annulments.” I have never sought nor attained a decree of nullity. To say that obtaining a decree of nullity is easier than falling off a log is quite an accusation for those of us in this “line of work.” Of course, there are mistakes, abuses, laxity, laziness, etc., since human beings are involved. If you have evidence of this, not to mention bribes, the place to go is the Apostolic Signatura, not these forums. I would wholeheartedly give you my support, such as it is, in taking your concerns there.

I will limit my response to these words, as this is off-topic. On the other hand, it is more on-topic than a discussion of derogotory terminology that is apparently directed toward Hispanics.

Dan

Hello right back atcha! Thank you for the clarification. I certainly never meant to insult you. But there is a scandal in the United States and it is appropriate for well, maybe not this forum, but a forum at CAF. This is where we are able to discuss topics that are important to us. Certainly obtaining annulments is an important topic to us. Or at least it should be.

The phrase “falling off a log” is an example of hyperbole. Of course it is not easier to obtain an annulment than to fall of a log. The whole idea is ridiculous. It’s a phrase used in the English language and it means exactly what I meant. It is remarkably easy to obtain an annulment in the United States.

I have provided documentation. I can produce more if you want, although I’m having computer problems. I’m sorry this scandal exists, but exist it does and it exists without any help from me.

I worked for a state government before I got hurt and had to stop working. I got to read about kickbacks, bribes, and other illegal activities that were supposedly going on in my department. Was it true? Yes, unfortunately. But it made me very angry because although I was offered bribes I never took one and when I was threatened by a “superior” I still refused to obey his orders. When I began my job I took an oath to uphold the laws of the state in which I worked and I took that very seriously.

I’ve read letters and articles in newspapers about the same thing. And what I read was that we were all being accused of conducting our business in an unethical way. It wasn’t true. I never did anything like that and neither did anyone I knew, except for my supervisor.

The worst part was when it showed up in a book, written by an extremely popular author. The author used a real place in a real city and said that it was very easy to bribe government officials. I was the government official in charge of that place in that city at the time the book was published. I was deeply insulted. I felt personally violated.

I don’t know if this explains my feelings well or if you feel the same way. I know there are honest people in the Church. It seems that when one or a few commit a crime everyone gets blamed. That’s not fair. And I should have added that to my original post, especially because I know how it feels to be accused of something I haven’t done.

And you’re right about the derogatory language thing. Hopefully it’s over now and we can go back to the original topic of the thread.

Thank you for your charity. We may not agree but I appreciate the way you presented your words.

God bless!

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

In the 1950s and 1960s.

Self-restraint was the norm.
Decency and modesty was the norm.
The Federal Government told us we were in a struggle with Godless Communism.
The Federal Government reminded us of our Judeo-Christian heritage.
People said hello.
You called your elders Mister and Missus.
You respected your parents.
Sex before marriage was taught as a bad thing.
You said please and thank you.

For the record, I’m not saying it was Perfect. We were aware of the crime and so on, plus an ICBM from Russia could fall on our heads at any moment, but we went to Church on Sunday and it really didn’t occupy much of our thinking.

Peace,
Ed

Amen and amen!

Let’s see… children are committing suicide in droves, we know Satan wants our kids dead in a dumpster, people are worshiping the devil either tacitly or in the breech, God is being banished from public discourse, and yet people here are arguing in favor of porn.

And refusing to recognize the fact that moral relativism is destroying us all.

Anything I left out?

 

[LittleSoldier]

Amen and amen!

Let’s see… children are committing suicide in droves, we know Satan wants our kids dead in a dumpster, people are worshiping the devil either tacitly or in the breech, God is being banished from public discourse, and yet people here are arguing in favor of porn.

And refusing to recognize the fact that moral relativism is destroying us all.

Anything I left out?

Uh, yeah. You left out the fact that Satan has always wanted our kids dead in a dumpster, that people have worshipped the devil ever since there have been people around with the opportunity to worship the devil, if God were really being banned from public discourse we would not be able to discuss Him here, and there is only one person (not the plural “people”) who is arguing in favor of porn and he is doing so (I believe) because it is a freedom of speech issue.

But this isn’t discourse, is it? This is just the “inner webs” and we shouldn’t pay attention to anything that is said because it isn’t important.

 

[Seeker2010]

Anything I left out?

Yeah. You left out the fact that suicide rates are lower today then they were in 1950. Or 1960. Am just sayin’.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Yeah. You left out the fact that suicide rates are lower today then they were in 1950. Or 1960. Am just sayin’.

Also, although this is weak anecdotal evidence, I have known several people who grew up in the late 50s and 60s and claim to have been involved in devil worship. One said that her identical twin was sacrificed and the others said they had given birth to children which were sacrificed.

I really don’t believe their stories but I also don’t think they are consciously lying. I believe that something very bad happened to these people while they were growing up.

I could write so much here about how people were abused as children but I don’t want to get banned and I am afraid that if I post what I know I will be banned. There’s no way to describe the horrors of child abuse without being inflammatory.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Also, although this is weak anecdotal evidence, I have known several people who grew up in the late 50s and 60s and claim to have been involved in devil worship. One said that her identical twin was sacrificed and the others said they had given birth to children which were sacrificed.

I really don’t believe their stories but I also don’t think they are consciously lying. I believe that something very bad happened to these people while they were growing up.

I could write so much here about how people were abused as children but I don’t want to get banned and I am afraid that if I post what I know I will be banned. There’s no way to describe the horrors of child abuse without being inflammatory.

I respect your desire to present evidence that is more than anecdotal.
Most of all, I get the feeling that you really care about the children who are abused in so many ways.

Bad things happen too often around us, even if we are not directly touched by it, we know it it there and we see it.
We should be working together to stop as much of it as we are able to, and be a team on matters like these.

 

[havana1]

Little Soldier: Speaking from Aribama - er, I mean, Arizona - all the hateful rhetoric about Latinos has made a lot of people tone deaf, for lack of a better word, about words that hurt people. (Ergo: Does anybody here call an unborn baby a “fetus”? No. I don’t think so, because we realize words communicate an intention.) Whether Ed or whoever is trying to insult anyone is irrelevant to the issue at hand - the insult has already been successfully delivered. It’s not something you can look up on Wikipedia, and it’s not something you can base upon a staged, scripted, make-believe movie. People want to talk about “Grease,” which is routinely staged at most Catholic high schools? Un-bleeping-believable, as Andrew Dice Clay used to say. The point being: Some people you just have to pray for and leave it at that. How much immorality is too much?, indeed. Catholics aren’t WASP’s: we are called to take the higher road. On behalf of those who see no error in their words, I’d like to extend an apology and wish you well.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Little Soldier: Speaking from Aribama - er, I mean, Arizona - all the hateful rhetoric about Latinos has made a lot of people tone deaf, for lack of a better word, about words that hurt people. (Ergo: Does anybody here call an unborn baby a “fetus”? No. I don’t think so, because we realize words communicate an intention.) Whether Ed or whoever is trying to insult anyone is irrelevant to the issue at hand - the insult has already been successfully delivered. It’s not something you can look up on Wikipedia, and it’s not something you can base upon a staged, scripted, make-believe movie. People want to talk about “Grease,” which is routinely staged at most Catholic high schools? Un-bleeping-believable, as Andrew Dice Clay used to say. The point being: Some people you just have to pray for and leave it at that. How much immorality is too much?, indeed. Catholics aren’t WASP’s: we are called to take the higher road. On behalf of those who see no error in their words, I’d like to extend an apology and wish you well.

Wow, Havana! I have to admit I don’t quite understand your post or why you are apologizing.

I do want to say that I grew up in an area that progressively became more Hispanic as time went by. Now it’s 100% Hispanic and has been called the most racist city in the United States - not because of bigotry toward Hispanics but because of bigotry towards Caucasians. It;s a small city but it welcomes illegal aliens, the U.S. flag was taken down at the Post Office and the Mexican flag put up (which I believe is a federal offense), the police department is completely ineffective and yet this encouragement of illegal aliens to come and live in this city goes on and on. It’s a real mess and I’m glad my Dad isn’t alive to see it (although it’s possible he sees it anyway). He loved that little town.

OTOH, the best friend I ever had was Hispanic. She spoke less Spanish than I do. Sometimes she would get very angry at me for calling someone “Mexican” because that is an incorrect way of defining people. How should I know? Like JM, I didn’t do it knowing that it was an insult.

Later on I found out that calling Asian people “Oriental” is considered a horrible insult. Once I learned that I never did it again.

I think that today it’s so easy to insult someone unknowingly. Calling a black person
“African-American” is seen as an insult by a lot of people who don’t want to be defined with a hyphen. And I agree. But how do we know what to call people? It’s like we walk on egg shells, always wondering how to not insult a particular person who is either Hispanic or Latino or Latina or any one of the many terms floating around today.

I have no answer. And as I will be joining you in Arizona (good joke BTW!) I know that I’m going to have to learn what to do. Where I live now it’s mostly Caucasian and Native American.

The best I can do is learn. I hope people tell me (kindly) when I’ve put my foot in my mouth and unknowingly insulted someone. I wish we could just call all people “people.” But I’m afraid that day is far off in the future.

God bless, you Havana!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

Amen and amen!

Let’s see… children are committing suicide in droves, we know Satan wants our kids dead in a dumpster, people are worshiping the devil either tacitly or in the breech, God is being banished from public discourse, and yet people here are arguing in favor of porn.

And refusing to recognize the fact that moral relativism is destroying us all.

Anything I left out?

Ya know, I’m really, really surprised that anyone would think that Satan’s war on children started in the 70s, 1970s to be specific. Didn’t Satan try to tempt Jesus out in the desert? I think I read that in the bible. It’s true that Jesus wasn’t a child at the time, but I think it’s safe to say that Satan has wanted our children dead for a long, long time. And by dead I mean in hell, with him. Those children who unfortunately end up in dumpsters may very well be in heaven with God and in holy bliss. If we rely on God’s goodness and love we can be sure that He provides for them - not Satan. Satan cannot take the soul of a child that belongs to God. Satan has lost those children. It’s not any sort of victory for him.

And that bit about children committing suicide in droves. It seems to me that children have been committing suicide ever since there were children (or shortly thereafter).

Then you throw in that part about moral relativism, even though moral relativism has been with us longer than people called it moral relativism.

Nothing has changed. I have a book from the 20s - early 50s, full of homicide photos (I have an interest in forensics). People were being killed all the time - murdered, suicide, etc. I have photos of children who were killed by their mothers. And these photos are not from the 70s and later.

Those who think that things have gotten so much worse should realize that their “reality” is influenced by the fact that we now know more about what is going on in the world. We have worldwide TV, we have the Internet. We are closer now than at any time in the past. So of course we are going to see more of what we consider immoral behavior. But that doesn’t mean that immoral behavior has increased in the last four decades.

And with those comments, I rest my case.