How much information and when to give it?

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Someone asked this on CA live one evening, I wish I could quote the advice because it was good advice. Along the lines of - your sins are between you and God and your confessor. You do not need to confess to your spouse/boyfriend,/etc. One should only disclose what would have an potential impact on the marriage, other than that - it is best to let the confessed forgiven sins be remembered no more.
 
Well here’s the deal: I am not dating anyone at the moment but I have a couple of really good catholic guys who are kind of expressing interest and I have to say that while I would like to date one of them I feel a lot of anxiety because my past relationships have not been with good catholic men.
Well then say “Yes” to one of these guys. Go to dinner, or a walk, whatever… When the subject of your past comes up just follow this rule - don’t “DUMP everything” on the poor guy!.. Be honest and tell him point blank that you’ve had some bad experiences, or some lapses in judgement.

He probably suspects you’ve had other men interested in you, and you should have the same about women and him. Give it some time, get to know eachother and wait for the appropriate situation to “unload” your history on the guy.
 
As a Catholic man I will say that the only information I would need is;
  • Are you a virgin?
  • Any information of a medical nature. If you have contracted any of the various STD’s?
  • Are there any children?
  • Are any of these men still in your life?
  • Have you been to Confession?
  • Are you now living chaste?
    Information I do not need;
  • Sexual details
  • How good (or bad) any of these men were or are (in bed or out)
  • Names
    All other information is between you and God and should stay that way unless a definitive need to know arises.
That’s my view as well, although if the answer to the top question is “yes” some - if not most - of the other questions can most likely be predicted.

As was pointed out, everyone is different, and we live in a culture hostile to Catholic teaching on morality. Some guys, when they are young, don’t care about virginal status, only that they can “hold out” until the wedding night without being led astray (I know that was my attitude in my college years and soon after). Or, despite knowing that it is the right thing, they are embarassed because of the hostility of the culture and they have to live “underground”. But as they get older, one of two extremes can happen: they either get more desperate, or more picky. They also may have experienced a lot of rejection and lack of success and start wondering what good does it do to obey the rules if those that don’t get the rewards (whether that attitude is right or wrong can be the subject of a different discussion, but the fact is that, right or wrong, it is part of the human condition and must be worked with). That’s where a male (and I’m sure this applies to females too) starts feeling “cheated” because they are not getting back the same that they are giving, and thatthey want the wait to have been “worthwhile”. Take a lesson from the employment world: if you take the good people for granted, you risk losing the good people.

One must also realize the physical and psycholical differences in male vs. female wiring. For one thing, for males, the biggest part of the chastity battle is “holding it in”, so to speak, and in second place is resisting the peer pressure to “score”. I can’t vouch for females, but for males, staying a virgin is probably the hardest thing one can do (next to laying down you life physically), so I hope you can undewrstand how a male may feel insecure. Let’s face it, the battle does take its toll.

Additionally, as was pointed out by a female in another thread, the male drive more constant whereas the female drive is in cycles.

That being said, only you can read the guy as to the when and under what conditions it will be right to bring up the subject. You may want to have each other write down the answer(s) on a piece of paper (in case one may feel caught off-guard) and exchange it. I do honestly believe that BOTH sides need to be honest about it, and let the chips fall they may. (In my own life, the subject only came up once, and it was the girl who asked me!).

But I’m going to tell you something frank. Although confession will restore sanctifying grace, it does not wipe away the consequences of sin. It will not cure an STD or make you unpregnant. And despite what the “head in the clouds” romantics will say, it does NOT restore virginity. And you are going to have to accept that as a consequence. That’s part of growing up and taking responsibility for your actions (and not blaming it on God for not sending us the right person; WE choose who we marry; that’s in the Cathechism, albeit indirectly)… And if a male virgin cannot accept a female non-virgin, well, you are going to have to accept it as a consequence. It doesn’t always mean that he is mean and judgmental, but may not feel compatible and secure, and if you want males to not be judgmental to you for your past, you are going to have to do likewise if they feel cheated, incompatible, or insecure.

I also believe two other things:
  1. If the male is not a virgin himself, he has no right to expect a virgin wife. That’s hypocrisy plain and simple. The question they need to be asked is if they were truly repentatnt, why don’t they take a cue from the gospel story of Zaccheus the tax collector and defer to male virgins and remember the general rule of courtesy that it is impolite to go back for “second helpings” when others haven’t had thier first…
  2. It is also hypocritical for non-virgins to criticize virgins for wanting to be “equally yoked”, so to speak. I have seen threads here on CAF where some of the meanest, vile,and disgusting things were said to male virgins looking to be “equally yoked”, and one in particular where there was this one person who all but admitted to being a “hooker for Christ”, for lack of a better term.
 
Thankyou, this was exactly the kind of straight forward answers I was looking for. A couple more questions about what to say and what not to say:

Context? (relationships or casual sex)
Age virginity lost?
Number of partners?
If any of the men are known to him or are friends still?
The context may matter, but it’s not like anyone has an absolute right to know. It matters more when it’s not repented, I guess. I don’t think age is anyone’s business or number. The last thing is important in order to make sure the ties are severed.

I think asking too many questions is not a healthy reaction and neither is delving into it and reconstructing how things went. There are better things to talk about and if one focuses on these, it probably means the relationship isn’t developing in a healthy way. It generally comes down to, “do I want to be with a person who has done this or that,” or, “let me know the whole situation and judge it on my own.” The former is not the core of the matter and the latter is in error - we aren’t the person’s judge.
 
Norseman,

Whle some of what you have said is helpful I am aslo somewhat disturbed by your attitude about non-virgin men going back for “second helpings”. Women, virgin or otherwise, are not objects to be consummed. Virginity is something that is lost only once and even if you marry a virgin she will not stay that way for long. You could marry avirgin who has been very unchaste in their life. You could marry a non-virgin who has repented and lived a very chaste life for years and brings much to the marriage because of it.
I do have sympathy for men who feel insecure. Women feel that way too. But yu know, I long ago accepted that even if a man is technically a virgin the chances that he has not had issues with masterbation are very slim. Personally that is hard for me to take and I see it as being very disordered and have never masterbated myself. I wouldn’t judge a man for it if he repented however as if God has forgiven him, who am I not to. I expect the same attitude from a Catholic man.
 
Norseman,

Whle some of what you have said is helpful I am aslo somewhat disturbed by your attitude about non-virgin men going back for “second helpings”.
That little “side rant” wasn’t directed at you.

But the point I was originally trying to make was that if a male is himself not a virgin, he can’t complain about a woman who is not, so if anything, it should only support you if you find a non-virgin male complaining about your past.
 
Cadence.
I made a tread a little while back that you might find interesting. my life was hell because of a recent fall and I asked my self: can I ever get over this… and if I do… I might have other people and potentially my future husband hurt me over and over again because of my past mistake… something I could not bear the thought of. having repented and feeling the extreme pain… I find that my heeling process really started to take shape when I came to this forum and had so much comfort. The tread was called
falling into sexual sin
(some people talk about a post-abortion-syndrome and I believe we can make a similar expression called post-premaritalsex syndrome which causes the same kind of depression and anxiety and supression of thoughs and isolation etc).

A totally other thing: Beware: this is not for the very sentitive people…
The interesting thing for me… when talking about details ect. is that I am really not sure if if would not help a man to know that in my case it sorta happend by accident and at that moment I even freaked out (it was the worst moment of my life) and I and this man never actually had full intercourse… Heck we never even wahted to end up in that situation but temptation won … And I hate that with all my heart… that it had to happen…
I know this is extremely honest and this thread is not for kids… but would it help a potential future husband to know this or should I just really keep it generel and say: “yep… its all gone” and then he can go around thinking I have done and dwelt in a lot of things that I really havent…

Sorry if you feel disturbed by my exposing this delicate matter… but its because I really wonder about it…
 
It’d be nice if anyone had a reply to my last question… any not so delicate woman out there perhaps… anything anybody?.. just to know if my logic was totally off track or not…
I’d be real gratefull for any short reply.
 
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