How much longer before the Church recognizes a homosexual Saint?

[RuthTherese]

Then I recommend you read the Catechism and a Catholic Bible (RSV). There’s no point in talking unless you know the Truth and accept it. You read it and then decide if you want to accept Catholicism. This is where you do your questioning yourself. Of course you can talk to people; that’s up to you but I found Catholicism by learning it and accepting Logos.
Opinions are very nebulous and largely based on a lack of knowledge.

I’m honestly not entirely sure what nebulous opinion of mine in this thread is so upsetting here. But in any case, I can assure you that I’ve read through the Catechism and RSV many times as one who grew up Catholic. And as this entire website will tell you, there are many things to be said about both. I’ve done the reading, I’m interacting with the people who practice it. And it’s very sad to see this kind of attitude that shuns those of us on the fence. Still, we’re all on our own path.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

I agree with that. Hence why I am Catholic. What I don’t understand is your approach of basically not listening to people. It’s not compromising of the truth to listen to someone’s life story and perspective. Their perspective can still be wrong. However, if you aren’t even willing to listen them but rather just shout the Church is right from a distance, you aren’t going to convince a person. To do effective evangeization (in my opinion) it is helpful to develop a relationship with a person rather than to just disengage when they say views that you don’t agree with or are in confliction with Church teaching.

That is the part that is confusing. It feels like you are creating this false choice where one either only states the church teaching is true or listens and dialogues with a person which somehow affects the facts of church teaching being true. Is not a debate about what is true but rather your view on approach of spreading that truth that is what doesn’t make sense to me.

It’s not that so much. It’s more talking to people before they understand the Faith so my first approach would be to explain a little and then recommend that they learn it. I’d provide them with recommendations for reading. Subjective flim flam will not save their souls. Objective truth, logos might for them and me.
There is no point in talking to people unless they have some knowledge. Most of the people on here who are trying to find out or “disagree” have no idea what they’re talking about

I’m honestly not entirely sure what nebulous opinion of mine in this thread is so upsetting here. But in any case, I can assure you that I’ve read through the Catechism and RSV many times as one who grew up Catholic. And as this entire website will tell you, there are many things to be said about both. I’ve done the reading, I’m interacting with the people who practice it. And it’s very sad to see this kind of attitude that shuns those of us on the fence. Still, we’re all on our own path.

No. I generalised. “Opinions” based on lack of knowledge are nebulous. I find that people argue based on some interpretation given by, for example some progressive (regressive to the 60’s) liberal priest in a bad homily.

I don’t shun anyone. However the “luke warm” aren’t favoured by our Lord Jesus Christ. You’re of course familiar with Revelations so I won’t need to tell you that. What makes me sad are the empty pews caused by the minority of disgusting perverts and now the all accommodating cowardly people who refuse to defend Church teaching and have made things a lot worse.

I’m on a path of living like you and everyone else but the Faith is uncompromising and very hard but absolutely necessary for survival in both Worlds.

 

[StudentMI]

If you read what the Pope said and didn’t listen to soundbites and nonsense, you’d understand that they never compromise either. Your sarcasm might be deemed “uncharitable” by you and your liberal mates but bring it on pal. I’m thick skinned

And you know I don’t read what the Pope(s) actually say/wrote… how? I spoke about compromise when?

And you talk about listening to the experiences of others as ‘subjective film flam?’ At least they’re speaking about their experiences, not dictating Church dogma as you are. Geez, even Pope Benedict wrote a book with Jurgen Habermas.

I’ll remain Catholic, thanks, not just concerned with ‘survival.’ You know, the yoke and burden that God Himself described as easy and light. Putting you on ignore.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

And you know I don’t read what the Pope(s) actually say/wrote… how? I spoke about compromise when?

And you talk about listening to the experiences of others as ‘subjective film flam?’ At least they’re speaking about their experiences, not dictating Church dogma as you are. Geez, even Pope Benedict wrote a book with Jurgen Habermas.

I’ll remain Catholic, thanks, not just concerned with ‘survival.’ You know, the yoke and burden that God Himself described as easy and light.** Putting you on ignore**.

The equivalent of a progressive liberal blocking you on Twitter. The “experiences of others” should be viewed with absolute Truth otherwise subjectivity and emotional reactions result in bad choices.

Take that and do what you want. I know what we’re commanded to do

 

[LoveMercyGrace]

not sure this post is worth replying to, with that said…
Saints are chaste or they would not be saints and I suppose there should be no preference to this.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Saints are chaste or they would not be saints and I suppose there should be no preference to this.

Where does it say that saints must be chaste? And when? Always? Or just at their death? I’m curious about this statement.

 

[Marie5890]

There certainly have been plenty of saints who struggled with lust.

St Augustine being one of the most well known…

 

[ComplineSanFran]

There certainly have been plenty of saints who struggled with lust.

St Augustine being one of the most well known…

Well, not just lust, but also rather wild behavior sexually.

 

[Rosebud77]

Sodomy was in fact consider a vice any could fall to. Before the Victorian era friendship was considered the highest love. In England for example it was perfectly it was perfectly acceptable for men to cuddle in the same bed and write love letters to each other even after sodomy laws were put in place. The terms heterosexuality and homosexuality don’t make sense for a time when people seeking love in same sex relationships is normal and praiseworthy, while sex is only for the opposite sex.

It was never acceptable or accepted, Sure it happened, Never has been accepted, especially nor in England!

 

[Deus_tecum]

It would be an abomination to identify a saint as homosexual. Homosexuality is not an intrinsic characteristic. Science has never shown that it was in spite of a massive effort to do so. Anecdotes from people who currently identify as “gay” saying that they “knew” from an early age are not scientific proof. When I was little, I “knew” I was going to develop superpowers; most notably flight, and deadly explosive rays from my hands. Would you believe me now if I told you I am a super-hero?

 

[StudentMI]

It would be an abomination to identify a saint as homosexual. Homosexuality is not an intrinsic characteristic. Science has never shown that it was in spite of a massive effort to do so. Anecdotes from people who currently identify as “gay” saying that they “knew” from an early age are not scientific proof. When I was little, I “knew” I was going to develop superpowers; most notably flight, and deadly explosive rays from my hands. Would you believe me now if I told you I am a super-hero?

What Church document has said it would be an abomination? What Bible verse?

Your analogy doesn’t make sense. Thoughts can be rational or irrational at any age. Knowing at age 15 that one was going to have back problems is not comparable to thinking at age 15 that one’s parents were shape-shifting lizards from another dimension.

 

[JMartyr73340]

We sure need one. It would be nice for people with homosexual tendencies to have a saint as guide and who they can pray to for intercession.

It would also be nice if the Church officially recognized saints that were:

1. Rapists
2. Child Molesters
3. Sadomasochists
4. fornicated with animals (beastiality)
5. fornicated with family members (incest)
6. Necrophiliacs (people who have sex with dead bodies)

You know…one for each perversion, so that the people who do this stuff will have somebody to pray to! Alternatively, if you’re a pervert who is recovering from any of these disturbing, perverse tendencies, you could just pray to the Virgin Mary - because you REALLY need her help…

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

It would also be nice if the Church officially recognized saints that were:

1. Rapists
2. Child Molesters
3. Sadomasochists
4. fornicated with animals (beastiality)
5. fornicated with family members (incest)
6. Necrophiliacs (people who have sex with dead bodies)

You know…one for each perversion, so that the people who do this stuff will have somebody to pray to! Alternatively, if you’re a pervert who is recovering from any of these disturbing, perverse tendencies, you could just pray to the Virgin Mary - because you REALLY need her help…

And people wonder why gay people think Catholics hate them.

 

[JMartyr73340]

And people wonder why gay people think Catholics hate them.

I don’t hate anyone. I just have common sense - something that our modern, progressive society has completely lost.

This baby-killing, sodomite-approving society must turn from its wicked ways or it will most certainly be destroyed (Sodom and Gomorrah style). We complain about the violence of the Muslims, which I wholeheartedly condemn. But at least they don’t murder their babies* in the millions*. At least they don’t have parades celebrating sodomy on a regular basis.* *

Yes, people, we need to seriously take the log out of our own eye, because the kids are not alright. We are seriously heading in the wrong direction. This false compassion (for sin) is the work of the devil. If you don’t see that, you’re blind.

 

[Fauken]

I don’t hate anyone. I just have common sense - something that our modern, progressive society has completely lost.

This baby-killing, sodomite-approving society must turn from its wicked ways or it will most certainly be destroyed (Sodom and Gomorrah style). We complain about the violence of the Muslims, which I wholeheartedly condemn. But at least they don’t murder their babies* in the millions*. At least they don’t have parades celebrating sodomy on a regular basis.**

Yes, people, we need to seriously take the log out of our own eye, because the kids are not alright. We are seriously heading in the wrong direction. This false compassion (for sin) is the work of the devil. If you don’t see that, you’re blind.

But that’s not what’s being discussed. This isn’t asking for a saint who repeatedly and unrepentantly kept engaging in intercourse with the same-sex (and personally, while I think it’s a sin, I would not group it on the same level with necrophila, pedophilia, rape, or beastiality simply because it’s a sexual sin). What’s being discussed is a saint who struggled with same-sex attraction and the desire to sleep with the same-sex, but overcame and resisted. Someone who can emphasize with the struggle. And I doubt you would find anything wrong with such a saint.

 

[Sarcelle]

But that’s not what’s being discussed. This isn’t asking for a saint who repeatedly and unrepentantly kept engaging in intercourse with the same-sex (and personally, while I think it’s a sin, I would not group it on the same level with necrophila, pedophilia, rape, or beastiality simply because it’s a sexual sin). What’s being discussed is a saint who struggled with same-sex attraction and the desire to sleep with the same-sex, but overcame and resisted. Someone who can emphasize with the struggle. And I doubt you would find anything wrong with such a saint.

St. Paul was a murderer who persecuted Christians. Now he is a saint.

I am sure the saints, with the exception of Mary, struggled against sin.

 

[Sarcelle]

I don’t hate anyone. I just have common sense - something that our modern, progressive society has completely lost.

This baby-killing, sodomite-approving society must turn from its wicked ways or it will most certainly be destroyed (Sodom and Gomorrah style). We complain about the violence of the Muslims, which I wholeheartedly condemn. But at least they don’t murder their babies* in the millions*. At least they don’t have parades celebrating sodomy on a regular basis.**

Yes, people, we need to seriously take the log out of our own eye, because the kids are not alright. We are seriously heading in the wrong direction. This false compassion (for sin) is the work of the devil. If you don’t see that, you’re blind.

We are not talking about people who have given into sin but people who struggle against their own sinful nature and managed to live a virtuous life. We all struggle with sin.

So if someone suffered from same sex attraction but did not give in to temptation and lived a chaste and virtuous life, he or she should still go to hell?

 

[Fauken]

St. Paul was a murderer who persecuted Christians. Now he is a saint.

I am sure the saints, with the exception of Mary, struggled against sin.

Exactly.

St. Moses the Black was a murderer.
St. Augustine was quite the hedonist before his conversion.
St. Mary Magdeline was a prostitute.
St. Peter denied Christ. Three times.
And the list can go on and on.

 

[JMartyr73340]

We are not talking about people who have given into sin but people who struggle against their own sinful nature and managed to live a virtuous life. We all struggle with sin.

Ok, let’s get to the real issue here:

Numerous clergy in the Church, who are homosexuals themselves, are secretly promoting an agenda of accepting homosexuality and the sexual revolution in general. They want us to become like the Anglicans, who are eager to embrace every modern sexual fad in our culture (fornication, contraception, easy divorce, trans-gendered, homosexuality, bi-sexual , tri-sexual, quad-sexual, whatever). Declaring a homosexual saint would simply be a part of that agenda. You all know this is true.

Oh yes, the progressives out there would be absolutely ecstatic if Pope Francis got on his balcony and said, "Today we declare as saints:

Francis the Homosexual
(roaring applause from the progressives, looks of horror from the traditionalists)
**Anthony the Bi-Sexual ** "
**Aquinas the Trans-gendered ** "
**Mary the Lesbian ** "
Alexander the man who practiced Beastiality "

You see, I don’t have a problem declaring someone a saint for overcoming lust, but to specifically identify the perversion of homosexuality, in this particular time, would not be appropriate. Pope Francis would NEVER do this. It would be used by progressive-Catholic clergy to further push their agenda of accepting these things. Even the saint himself would not want to be identified with the perversion, if he was actually a saint.

 

[fladreamer]

Ok, let’s get to the real issue here:

Numerous clergy in the Church, who are homosexuals themselves, are secretly promoting an agenda of accepting homosexuality and the sexual revolution in general. They want us to become like the Anglicans, who are eager to embrace every modern sexual fad in our culture (fornication, contraception, easy divorce, trans-gendered, homosexuality, bi-sexual , tri-sexual, quad-sexual, whatever). Declaring a homosexual saint would simply be a part of that agenda. You all know this is true.

Oh yes, the progressives out there would be absolutely ecstatic if Pope Francis got on his balcony and said, "Today we declare as saints:

Francis the Homosexual
(roaring applause from the progressives, looks of horror from the traditionalists)
**Anthony the Bi-Sexual ** "
**Aquinas the Trans-gendered ** "
**Mary the Lesbian ** "
Alexander the man who practiced Beastiality "

You see, I don’t have a problem declaring someone a saint for overcoming lust, but to specifically identify the perversion of homosexuality, in this particular time, would not be appropriate. Pope Francis would NEVER do this. It would be used by progressive-Catholic clergy to further push their agenda of accepting these things. Even the saint himself would not want to be identified with the perversion, if he was actually a saint.

I think it’s perfectly normal to look for models, people to emulate, to draw inspiration from. Homosexuality is not my cross, shall we say, but, in the spirit of total honesty, hopelessness and anger would be, though. If I sought solace from a saint, chances are I’d look for one who has dealt with some of the stuff I deal with, someone I can relate to. I find it inappropriate that you should mention ‘‘bestiality’’, I think it’s crystal clear that people on this thread with ssa are looking for support, solace and inspiration from a saint who has, obviously, been tempted to engage in homosexuality but rather chose to live a chaste life. From the catechism: ‘‘The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.’’ I don’t think your post is going in that direction.