How much Money should a Christian have?

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nsper7 said:
But remember that Purgatory implies sin, albeit venial. My understanding is that failure to follow the evangelical counsels is NOT sinful, either venial or mortal.

Also, the Pharisees/Scribes seem to get into trouble for:

A) Hypocrisy
B) Adding to the Law (i.e. “binding heavy burdens on others”)
C) Using subterfuge/dishonesty to try get away with things (i.e. consecrating things to God in order to get around having to provide for their families…now, you could possibly compare that to my living will idea, but there is not subterfuge there because the property really does belong to the other person just with stipulations and obviously my idea was meant to be a tad facetious)

Remember that it is the Church that tells us how Christ’s two Commandments are to be practically lived out.
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You are probably right, and Lord knows I have nor right to tell others how to Live their Faith, but you asked what was wrong with taking a minimalistic approach and I tried to answer that.
Yes - Living by the “evangelical councils” is not sinful, unless of course God speaks to your heart and tells you to do more. Then failing to listen and act on this could well be sinful.
What you suggest by your response is that we are fine if we live near the edge of the precipice of sin, seeking to do only what we need to like the rich young man who kept the commandments from childhood. The problem with living near this edge is that one must be extra careful and extra dilligent not to fall over the edge into the abyss of sin.
If we move our living quarters away from the precipice and toward “perfection” (Mt 5:48)(Mt 19:21) We are less likely to fall into the chasm of sin.
I cannot say who is right and who is wrong. Each situation is unique. That is why he evangelical councils determine certain “minimums” to allow for each person, in prayer and reflection on the Lords Will for them, to make a determination as to what is appropriate.

I suggest that, while such a minimalistic approach might not be “technically” sinful, how does such an approach square with Christ’s call to us to “be Perfect”
“You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”(Mt 5:48)
Choosing to live the “minimalistic” spiritual life seems to smack of Spiritual “Sloth” and Sloth, as we know, is one of the seven deadly sins along with pride, envy gluttony and greed.

When Jesus told the Rich Young Man what more was necessary to “become perfect” he walked away sad. Jesus then told the disciples how hard it is for a “rich man” to enter into the kingdom.
How many of us, whether for money or some other worldy thing, “walk away sad” from the call of Christ to “be perfect” because we cannot break our attachment.

nsper7, we are all in this same boat and rest assured that I am no better than you, probably worse. We are all trying to determine God’s will in our lives. This thread overall has demonstrated to me just how firm a hold “riches” have on us.

Peace
James
 
Is it possible to have the wealth of a millionaire and the heart of a saint?
 
sinnerdexter said:
Is it possible to have the wealth of a millionaire and the heart of a saint?
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I think yes it is. Jesus said it was very difficult, not impossible.

Of course if this were the case:
What would be the lifestyle of this “layperson saint”?
What sort of house would this millionaire live in? Mansion or modest?
What sort of car would he drive? Luxury or modest?
Where would he have the money invested?
How much of the income would be devoted to charitable causes? (only 10%?)
How might he have his will set up?

These are the sorts of things we must ponder in our hearts as we discern what is “wealth” and what is appropriate use of money.

Peace
James
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
You could be right. But there is nothing inherently immoral about buying a Mercedes, and I hesitate to tell anyone how to spend his money. I may not approve of certain things; you may not approve of different certain things. It’s not our portion to tell someone else what to do in matters that are morally neutral.

We also have to be careful not to stray into class envy, which is against Church teachings.
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I think that part of the problem here is that while we cannot judge the motivations of any one individual, we can say that some things are marketed to appeal to preferences that are not morally praiseworthy. For example, some have argued, that if you are looking to minimize overall transportation costs, a Mercedes is one of the cheapest cars in the long run, particularly if you buy a used car. (note: I don’t know if that is actually true, I just heard the allegation) Now, buying a more expensive car because it is cheaper in the long run is morally praiseworthy, because it embodies the cardinal virtue of prudence. Of course, the problem with the Mercedes is that it is marketed to appeal to the desires in us to compare ourselves with our neighbors. If we buy a luxury car because we want to impress our neighbor, that is not morally praiseworthy. So there is a danger here, which the Church is right to point out and tell us that if we are to go down this road, that we need to be careful.
 
JRKH said:
How much of the income would be devoted to charitable causes?
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I believe that God doesn’t need our money. But why is it that the Bible says over and over again, “Give the first fruits of your harvest to God”?
 
alitaptap said:
I believe that God doesn’t need our money. But why is it that the Bible says over and over again, “Give the first fruits of your harvest to God”?
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Because God is, or should be, our first Love and the one to whom we give the best we have.

Peace
James
 
alitaptap said:
I believe that God doesn’t need our money. But why is it that the Bible says over and over again, “Give the first fruits of your harvest to God”?
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I think because we need to give. While the market provides many wonderful benefits, the one thing that it will never do is really meet our true needs. We can be fed and housed by the market, but beyond that, it is really very poor at solving the true scarcity in our lives. I think that giving our first fruits to the Lord, helps us to keep that in mind.
 
Buying water pumps is certainly in line with, “For I was thirsty and you gave me to drink.”
 
Hi All,

I see in referrence to this last page of posts, we are going easy on the rich.

Questions arise here in my mind regarding the wealth you have amassed… I read the bible and it says that (for arguement sake lets say, “some”) Violent men become rich, (Psalms) others by different virtues, so how have you become so wealthy? Please tell me I am urgent to know!

If it is inheritance money, likewise reading the old fathers (st. Cyprian) and the NT says we are to be rich towards Christ with it, see parable of the rich farmer with the barns. This was their (early Christians) understanding of it.

This commandment is for those who seek perfection, “go” He says, “sell all you have and give to the poor” then you will have treasure in heaven. Do you seek to be perfect? Then follow Christ like this.

Give whatever you feel is right to the Poor or the church, for God loves a cheerful giver…
Some good Charities I can recommend are World Food program/CAFOD and Release International/ Gospel of Asia. You can donate online.

Many Thanks and Good luck…! XX
 
I am wary of threads such as this. When the question is truly honest in asking “how much do I need”, how does the Church teachings direct ME, what can I learn to apply to MY life – then it is a fair question.

However, it is often about other people. Trying to deduce if they have too much. Sometimes it is just wealth envy. Sometimes it is political or even in support of socialism. Be cautious, suspicious and introspective.
 
lutherlic said:
I am wary of threads such as this. When the question is truly honest in asking “how much do I need”, how does the Church teachings direct ME, what can I learn to apply to MY life – then it is a fair question.

However, it is often about other people. Trying to deduce if they have too much. Sometimes it is just wealth envy. Sometimes it is political or even in support of socialism. Be cautious, suspicious and introspective.
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Amen. The Church never condemns honestly earned wealth per se, and we are not all called to financial poverty. Indeed, I don’t see how we could ‘help’ the poor if everyone was poor.
 
LilyM said:
Because for starters you can do an awful lot of good for others if you have cash to do it with.
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Not because of greed or materialism? Wealth can never answer the deepest longings of our soul.
 
sinnerdexter said:
Not because of greed or materialism?
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Well yeah, for a lot of people that comes into it of course. Hence I said ‘for starters’. ‘For starters’ means that I’m not naming ALL the reasons, just one or a few.

I thought the question was why SHOULD we want to be rich, not why DO people usually want to be rich.
 
LilyM said:
Well yeah, for a lot of people that comes into it of course. Hence I said ‘for starters’. ‘For starters’ means that the list I am producing is not exhaustive.

I thought the question was why SHOULD we want to be rich, not why DO people usually want to be rich.
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What would be the lifestyle of the rich & faithful then?
 
sinnerdexter said:
What would be the lifestyle of the rich & faithful then?
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I’d imagine something along the lines of Andrew Carnegie or John D Rockefeller - both of whom were devoutly religious. They both made squillions but also gave staggering amounts of money away to benefit those in need and their communities generally.

Think Bill and Melinda Gates, but motivated by religious faith rather than atheistic humanism.
 
LilyM said:
I’d imagine something along the lines of Andrew Carnegie or John D Rockefeller - both of whom were devoutly religious. They both made squillions but also gave staggering amounts of money away to benefit those in need and their communities generally.

Think Bill and Melinda Gates, but motivated by religious faith rather than atheistic humanism.
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This is more specific question. Are you willing to give 90% of your wealth and live on the remaining 10%?
 
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