How much of the councils are we bound to?

[Link0126]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

So this is leads me to my question of how much of what is determined at the councils and said by the Popes do we have to believe and follow? Is it only the doctrinal and infalliable proclamations, or is it every little thing? Is there any room as a Catholic for your opinion and where can the line be drawn before you are out of communion with the Holy See?

Thank you.

 

[pnewton]

My understanding is one is required to give an assent of faith on all things dogmatic. This occurs when the council declares something dogmatic either directly or by use of formula. However, even on things not dogmatic one should still bear in mind that the Church is the teacher and we are the student, not the other way around.

 

[Vico]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

So this is leads me to my question of how much of what is determined at the councils and said by the Popes do we have to believe and follow? Is it only the doctrinal and infalliable proclamations, or is it every little thing? Is there any room as a Catholic for your opinion and where can the line be drawn before you are out of communion with the Holy See?

Thank you.

From Lumen Gentium, Vatican II, we should accept and embrace all the teachings of Vatican II, but we are bound only to things of faith and morals openly declared to be binding.

On this occasion the Theological Commission makes reference to its Declaration of March 6, 1964, the text of which we transcribe here:

“Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding. The rest of the things which the sacred Council sets forth, inasmuch as they are the teaching of the Church’s supreme magisterium, ought to be accepted and embraced by each and every one of Christ’s faithful according to the mind of the sacred Council. The mind of the Council becomes known either from the matter treated or from its manner of speaking, in accordance with the norms of theological interpretation.”

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[ProVobis]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

If this means he doesn’t recognize the primacy of the Pope, then it means he’s placed himself outside of the Church, regardless of what he thinks about the vernacular.

 

[Vince1022]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

So this is leads me to my question of how much of what is determined at the councils and said by the Popes do we have to believe and follow? Is it only the doctrinal and infalliable proclamations, or is it every little thing? Is there any room as a Catholic for your opinion and where can the line be drawn before you are out of communion with the Holy See?

Thank you.

All Catholic teachings are binding on the faithful.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

We should always think with the mind of the Church. We can get it wrong, the Church doesn’t.

Alex

 

[Robert_Burns]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

So this is leads me to my question of how much of what is determined at the councils and said by the Popes do we have to believe and follow? Is it only the doctrinal and infalliable proclamations, or is it every little thing? Is there any room as a Catholic for your opinion and where can the line be drawn before you are out of communion with the Holy See?

Thank you.

Since when are Catholics allowed to decide for themselves what they will or will not believe? Did the Apostles take the same approach with Our Lord? The Church has a hierarchy - either you accept it or you dont.

 

[TMC]

An old friend of mine is saying that is an “old Catholic”, b/c he rejects Vatican II AND Vatican I. But he says he agrees with the vernacular changes of VII. I told him he sounds a bit protestant b/c he is picking and choosing what he wants from the councils and mainly rejecting them completely.

So this is leads me to my question of how much of what is determined at the councils and said by the Popes do we have to believe and follow? Is it only the doctrinal and infalliable proclamations, or is it every little thing? Is there any room as a Catholic for your opinion and where can the line be drawn before you are out of communion with the Holy See?

Thank you.

Not directly responsive to your question, but you might be interested to know that the “Old Catholics” are not merely a bunch of Catholics that have problems with VI and VII. They are an organized schismatic group that split off after Vatican I, mostly because they disputed papal infallibility. They have their own churches, priests and bishops. Old Catholics consider themselves a catholic and apostolic Church, but they are not in communion with Rome and the Church considers them to be schismatic. Their situation is in many ways parallel to the situation that the SSPX is in, or at least what SSPX might become if the current attempts to bring them back into the fold are unsuccessful.