How Muslims follow Jesus (pbuh)

[MH84]

I normally don’t get involved in the Islam v Christianity discussion but I found something which I found interesting from a Muslim person’s perspective. This is from the “I AM” thread started by memnoch_lover (its an old thread).

Ahimsa says:

But since Muslims believe that God sent a prophet to each nation, and since many Muslims believe that Krishna and Buddha were prophets, Catholic apologists can’t simply look at the Jewish texts to prove that the gates to Heaven were closed before Jesus’ birth – apologists would also have to look at what the Hindu and Buddhist prophets have said about Heaven. And the Hindus and Buddhists don’t seem to have this concept of no one reaching Heaven before Jesus’ birth.

Exoflare replied:

…The only criteria seems to be that they write a book or teach some stuff (or more commonly it seems, if hundreds of years later, somebody just suddenly claims you wrote a book or taught some stuff). Gotta hand it to Mohammed, though. He was the first one smart enough to pen the “revelation” that he was the last and greatest prophet, guaranteeing that no one else get any fun later on. Of course, if I were to become an aspiring prophet, maybe I could just cancel all that out a la abrogation theory?

Btw even though I don’t know how well read memnoch_lover is, but imo some of his comments about the relationship of the Trinity and about Christ is a great starting point for people interested in those topics. I am not saying its perfect but for me it was reaffirming for my faith. God bless your efforts memnoch_lover.

eg from memnoch_lover.

question: who was in charge in the universe when the Son of God emptied Himself?

the answer is simple…

Jn 1:1 says… In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God . … The Word was made flesh…

See it was the Word who was God that became flesh… while God with whom the Word was with in the beginning did not became flesh…

Therefore…God who existed with the Word in the beginning was in charge…

However, since we should consider and exhaust all verses not just choose some i consider the following…

Gods nature does not change.
Therefore the Divine nature of the Son of God when he became man was not mixed with human or disappears. The divine nature remains as is and is hidden in his human nature which he assumed…hence jesus has both human nature and divine nature and possess both attributes

example of jesus attributes as human… 1. he gets hungry 2. he cries 3. he gets hurt… in this sense he is truly man

example of jesus attributes as God…1… he forgives sin… when only God can forgive. 2. he raised himself from the dead… when he said " destroy this temple and i will raise it up on the third day… the people did not understand jesus that he was speaking of his body" (gospel of john) also… jesus said “: i lay lay my life on my own accord but if i will i will raise it up”(somewhere in the john gospel)

In this characteristic jesus is all in all true mediator being truly God and truly man…

As man jesus shares our nature as God jesus shares the nature of the Father. Since he has both nature… it is but legitimate that he claims to be One with the Father as to his divine nature…he said " the Father and me are One…or I am in the father and the Father is in me…"

therefore Going back toyour question… who rules the universe when jesus empted himself?

answer: The Father who was with the Word since from the beginning(jn 1:1)rules the universe. also the Word who became flesh named jesus rules the world despite being man because as to his divinne nature He is with the father and the father is in Him.
Jesus as to his divine nature is one withthe Father.

 

[MH84]

eg cont. from memnoch_lover

another issue…

now as to how jesus as able to attain atonement for the sin of man.

simple: man has free will therefore he must be responsible of his action…Wwhen man sinned against God… man must take responsibility of his own sin because he committed it with his free will…This is in accord to justice that is to give one his due…since man is the cause of the mess of sin now it is man who should clean it, that is his responsibilty.

But how can man take resposibilty of his own sin to the saticfaction of the offended party (GOD)when what man does is always short of the justice of God. It is always short becaus man is finite while Gods justice is infinite. Remember God is not only merciful but is Justice also… As such justice God demands what is due to him.

When Gods justice demands that man take responsibilty of his action , man finds himself short of the justice of God since he is finite.

However… in jesus who has both nature of god and man… the justice of god was satisfied .

How? jesus as man… represents man… as man he took the responsibilty of the sin of man… as God… whatever jesus does has an infinite value…so very act of jesus is sufficient to redeem man because it is infinite. But Jesus did not stop there… in fulfillment of the prophecy of isaiah(53:10) jesus offered his life to God as atonement for mankind.

Now how can the justice of God refuse the reparation or atonement of jesus when it has infinite value being God as well as man?the sacrifice of jesus was sufficient to the saticfaction of gods justice… in short the demand of the justice of God was met.

That is jesus is said to have ransom us… or has paid our salvation

Howver the effect of the redemption of jesus is not automatic.

God has done his part and man has to respond… In baptism the merit of jesus sacrifice is realized.Paul wrote… that as we are emerse in water we died with him and as we are are raised from the water… we live as new life… also jesus said… you must be born of water and spirit…etc pointing to baptism as sharing in his death and ressurection…

end

 

[Booklover]

The aim of this thread is to show why Muslims consider ourselves to be the true followers of Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

I will give some examples of teachings which Prophet Jesus followed and taught, but which were later abandoned by the Church. However, most of these teachings were revived in the final message of Islam brought by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and remain a fundamental part of Muslim religious practices until today.

Circumcision

Jesus was circumcised. According to the Old Testament, this tradition began with Prophet Abraham, who was himself neither a Jew nor a Christian. In Genesis 17:10, it is written, “9And God said to Abraham, ‘As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you. 12He that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised; every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house, or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring, 13both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.”

In the Gospel according to Luke 2:21: “And at the end of eight days, when he was circumcised, he was called Jesus, the name given by the angel before he was conceived in the womb.” Consequently, to be circumcised was a part of Jesus’ way. However, today most Christians are not circumcised, because of a rationale introduced by Paul. He claimed that circumcision was the circumcision of the heart. In his letter to the Romans 2:29, he wrote: “He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal.” In his letter to the Galatians 5:2, he wrote: “Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.” This was Paul’s false interpretation. On the other hand, Jesus was not circumcised in the heart nor did he say anything about circumcision of the heart; he kept the “everlasting covenant” and was circumcised in the flesh. Thus, an important part of following the way of Jesus is circumcision.

Muslims follow the way of Jesus (pbuh) and have their male children circumcised at an early age.

Does being circumcised make a person a better person? Does it make a person holier?

In our Sunday church bulletin for the sixth sunday of Easter it states that for the early church the question of circumcision was not a minor issue; it meant that Gentiles were coming to the church of Christ without first accepting the Jewish faith and practices. To dispense with circumcision meant acknowledging that the Christian faith was indeed something new, and open to all believers. The new teaching was promulgated in the name of all the members of the church, and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

But this new teaching did not signify a rejection of the Jewish faith. The early Christians recognized the power of the Hebrew scriptures, reading them with the eyes of the Christian faith.

Vickie

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I have a sneaking suspicion that of all the posters who have “replied” to the points presented in this topic, not a single soul can honestly claim to religiously follow **every one **of the acts of worship that Jesus (pbuh) taught and practiced as mentioned in this thread.

I submit that those who do not make ablution before prayer and who do not bow and prostrate to their Creator in their prayers simply do not have a clue as to the immense significance of these acts of worship.

Followers really do need to play the part i.e. it is essential that they actually follow the actions and example set by the one they profess to follow, not merely sit back and pontificate on the “true meaning” of the things that he taught.

After all, actions do indeed speak a whole lot louder than words… and this applies especially so for Messengers of God like Jesus (pbuh).

Moslems are good followers. Good followers of Mohammad as demonstrated by Islamic terrorism and “radical” Islamism. I try to be a good follower of Jesus, and I sometimes fail. I am human and I confess my sins because I am human – I think that Jesus would rather me confess my sins than whether or not I said the same prayer over and over everyday in the same position.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Jesus’ Return

Even the expected return of Jesus, which Christians are awaiting, is a part of the Islamic faith. However, he will not return to judge the world as modern Christians believe, because judgment only belongs to God. The Qur’an teaches that Jesus was not killed by the Jews, but was instead raised up alive by God into the heavens.

That’s wonderful… the only way Muhammad could make himself a Prophet is to discredit the last Prophet and Son of God to place himself higher. Also… the Bible doesn’t teach Jesus was killed by the Jews – it teaches that Jesus died of His own free will for humankind to be risen up 3 days later by the Father and that He ascended and is now on His Father’s right hand for eternity.

 

[paarsurrey]

it teaches that **Jesus died of His own free will **

Hi
Please don’t accuse Jesus in this way; it would mean that Jesus committed suicidal death with the collaboration of the Jews. It is incorrect, as even to the last moment Jesus prayed to be saved from the Cup. I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

So, it is all confusion in Catholicism, in my opinion, which would remain there if they don’t think rationally, logically and reasonably.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented.

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi
Please don’t accuse Jesus in this way; it would mean that Jesus committed suicidal death with the collaboration of the Jews. It is incorrect, as even to the last moment Jesus prayed to be saved from the Cup. I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

So, it is all confusion in Catholicism, in my opinion, which would remain there if they don’t think rationally, logically and reasonably.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented.

Hi Paarsurrey,
I think you misunderstood what Semper Fi was saying.
When he said Jesus died of his own free will, he meant that he died for our sins. Not commited a suicidal death.
He died for our sins, and this is a great sacrifice he did for us.
Thats why we say ‘Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us’

 

[LilyM]

Hi Paarsurrey,
I think you misunderstood what Semper Fi was saying.
When he said Jesus died of his own free will, he meant that he died for our sins. Not commited a suicidal death.
He died for our sins, and this is a great sacrifice he did for us.
Thats why we say ‘Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us’

Exactly - a man who sees a gun fired at his child and steps in between knowing that the bullet will hit and kill him instead isn’t suicidal, he his heroically giving his life out of love for the child.

 

[paarsurrey]

Exactly - a man who sees a gun fired at his child and steps in between knowing that the bullet will hit and kill him instead isn’t suicidal, he his heroically giving his life out of love for the child.

Hi
Even that is not correct. Jesus was not happy with what was happening with him, though his disciples did not pray as he wished, yet he was praying to GodAllahYHWH to save him from the Cup. The state of his mind , what you depict, just does not fit on the Jesus on Cross, he did not mention of anybody else’s sins on the Cross, he prayed for his life only.
Please quote his words on the Cross that he talked for other’s sins on the Cross, in support of your claim.There is none, I think.
Thanks

The Catholics don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented. I love Jesus and Mary.

 

[Booklover]

Hi
Even that is not correct. Jesus was not happy with what was happening with him, though his disciples did not pray as he wished, yet he was praying to GodAllahYHWH to save him from the Cup. The state of his mind , what you depict, just does not fit on the Jesus on Cross, he did not mention of anybody else’s sins on the Cross, he prayed for his life only.
Please quote his words on the Cross that he talked for other’s sins on the Cross, in support of your claim.There is none, I think.
Thanks

The Catholics don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented. I love Jesus and Mary.

Why do you keep insulting us? All 4 gospels state that Jesus died and rose again. That is one of the greatest tenets of our faith. We believe what the Bible says. We do not believe in the Quran, Muhammad or the Mahdi!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Hi
Even that is not correct. Jesus was not happy with what was happening with him, though his disciples did not pray as he wished, yet he was praying to GodAllahYHWH to save him from the Cup. The state of his mind , what you depict, just does not fit on the Jesus on Cross, he did not mention of anybody else’s sins on the Cross, he prayed for his life only.
Please quote his words on the Cross that he talked for other’s sins on the Cross, in support of your claim.There is none, I think.
Thanks]

Isn’t it amazing how Muslims can interpret our faith better than we can?

The Catholics don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.

however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented. I love Jesus and Mary.

That’s funny coming a Muslim! Muslims’ lives are completely planned, no thinking required. Just follow “Allah’s” rules like a good little robot programmed by Muhammad! :hypno:

Vickie

 

[George_Waters]

The Catholics don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented. I love Jesus and Mary.

So if I accept you as an expert on Catholicism paarsurrey can I accept a Catholic as an expert on Islam?

I researched Islam and found it extremely lacking. Many years later I was led home to the true faith of God. Blind faith my…

Your lack of knowledge is laughable and serves only to reinforce negative sterotypes of all Muslims apologist. Congratulations!

 

[paarsurrey]

So if I accept you as an expert on Catholicism paarsurrey

Hi
I never claimed to be an expert on Catholicism, I rather learn it here from the discussion with the members, but I form my own opinion freely .
Thanks

 

[George_Waters]

Hi
I never claimed to be an expert on Catholicism, I rather learn it here from the discussion with the members, but I form my own opinion freely .
Thanks

Fair enough, you did not claim to be an expert. However the point still stands. If a Catholic learned everything about Islam from the internet would you except their word about Islam? Of course not. In fact many Muslim posters here have argued the same point and told many Catholics to pick up a Quran. If you wish to believe Catholics have a blind faith do your research and use the same standards when judging Islam. You will find the propondrence of evidence supports the Catholic faith and all Islam has to stand on is one man, with no witnesses and what he wrote in a book to support himself. My God bless you and led you to the truth as he did me.

 

[Ilocia]

Hi
I never claimed to be an expert on Catholicism, I rather learn it here from the discussion with the members, but I form my own opinion freely .
Thanks

Aww so many ahmadiyya here… Where are the sunnis?? gone without a trace?

 

[paarsurrey]

Aww so many ahmadiyya here… Where are the sunnis?? gone without a trace?

Hi
I am just one Ahmadi writing here. You pleas be steadfast Catholic and no need to convert unnecessarily.
Thanks

 

[anthony022071]

Hi
Please don’t accuse Jesus in this way; it would mean that Jesus committed suicidal death with the collaboration of the Jews. It is incorrect, as even to the last moment Jesus prayed to be saved from the Cup. I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

He was fulfilling the Scriptures by submitting to death,as he told his disciples!

Matthew26,53-54:

“Do you not suppose I can call on my Father to provide at a moment’s notice more than twelve legions of angels? But then how would the Scriptures be fulfilled which say it must happen this way?”

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey;2423436:

He was fulfilling the Scriptures by submitting to death,as he told his disciples

Hi
Do you mean that Jesus was forced by the events or by the scriptures (written decades later) for death.That would only prove that Jesus was put on Cross without his own free will. In the end you would say, I can guess, it was mystery.Please don’t mind.
No, the Jews of his time the hardened clergy conspired againt him, they did it in a very cruel way, whenever I read this account tears roll…
I love Jesus and Mary.
Thanks

 

[adrift]

paarsurrey

What you have left out was that Jesus prayed not His will be done but

He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, “My Father, 25 if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will.”

Jesus is both human and God. It is His human nature that asked to be spared but still would do what His Father wanted. A good example to all of us because it is not easy to do what God calls us to do. It is o.k. than to ask we be spared but still be willing to do what Our Father wants us to. To say that we can know God perfectly is impossible so much of God is a mystery

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Hi
Even that is not correct. Jesus was not happy with what was happening with him, though his disciples did not pray as he wished, yet he was praying to GodAllahYHWH to save him from the Cup. The state of his mind , what you depict, just does not fit on the Jesus on Cross, he did not mention of anybody else’s sins on the Cross, he prayed for his life only.
Please quote his words on the Cross that he talked for other’s sins on the Cross, in support of your claim.There is none, I think.
Thanks

The Catholics don’t believe Jesus (and the Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on Jesus); they believe blindly, excuse me, whatever creed the Catholic Clergy have approved of for them.
I however respect your faith, which is more of a blind faith, rather than being research oriented. I love Jesus and Mary.

Heh. What a crock and strawman. My clergy don’t tell me what to believe. I choose to remain a Catholic because it is the religion that makes the most sense in the context of history and factuality. Read the Church Fathers, the early Christians and decide for yourself which religion fits that mold today and you shall see that it’s not Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, or Islam.