How my mom can deal with born-agains at work

[JRKH]

Yes, my mom does follow the Catholic religion. They talk about it all the time from what my mother has told me. The one waitress’ husband is the pastor of this church, and I guess they got a whole group of them to start going. Most of them are actually former/lapsed Catholics, so I’m trying to figure a way of how to deal with this. The one woman’s son committed suicide a few years back, and I think maybe she’s “lost” and looking for a way to find God. She was a strict Catholic at one time and then converted to the Greek Orthodox Church whenever she got married to her husband. Maybe she just doesn’t know what to believe.

OK - since your mother is Catholic, you need to determine how this is effecting her and what she wants to do.
It sounds as if she is feeling very overwhelmed which could be the result of her working so much and being tired and/or not knowing how the answers to some of the questions posed and/or feeling “outnumbered” in this situation.

If it is just a matter of her not having the energy to deal with this…She will just have to learn to "turn it off’. She will need to tell these people that she is there to work and simply does not wish to discuss this during working hours period. Then she can simply choose not to participate in any of their discussions.
If they continue to ask her questions after being asked not to…then she might need to go to the supervisor and again - charitably - ask that they not do this.

On the other hand, if the issues are more of not having the answers an/or feeling outnumbered. Then the thing to do would be to have them write down their questions so that she can find the best and correct answers for them.

So - please take the time to have a good conversation with your mom on this so that you and she can approach it in a charitable and coherent way

But again - if these people are asking why you believe this or that - you mom needs to tell them to stop bugging her about it and to ask you directly.

Peace
James

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Did you have any experience to proclaim the Gospels to Protestants, especially Ex-Catholics? Their hearts are the most hardened because they think they know everything about the Church. OP really need to read a lot on apologetics.

I don’t think apologetics is the way to go here. Protestants can pull quotes out for all purposes, whether or not they are in context. They will not be convinced by anything you try to explain to them. Moreover, if she argues with them, she will have become like them.

“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” – Mark Twain

Show them what true Catholic unconditional love is like. And if she doesn’t know how, then the concern should be about her own relationship with God and not how she defends against those others. Get that right, and she won’t have any problems with well-meaning but misguided people.

1 Cor 1:17-20
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and*** not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.***

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”

Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish?

Or more succinctly, Prov 27:22
Though you pound fools with a pestle, their folly never leaves them.

So I say that trying to out-argue them is spitting into the wind.

Alan

 

[JRKH]

I don’t think apologetics is the way to go here. Protestants can pull quotes out for all purposes, whether or not they are in context. They will not be convinced by anything you try to explain to them. Moreover, if she argues with them, she will have become like them.

“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.” – Mark Twain

Show them what true Catholic unconditional love is like. And if she doesn’t know how, then the concern should be about her own relationship with God and not how she defends against those others. Get that right, and she won’t have any problems with well-meaning but misguided people.

1 Cor 1:17-20
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and*** not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning.***

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the learning of the learned I will set aside.”

Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish?

Or more succinctly, Prov 27:22
Though you pound fools with a pestle, their folly never leaves them.

So I say that trying to out-argue them is spitting into the wind.

Alan

Amen Alan…The Witness of love - even silent love - is the best.

However - I would suggest that explaining to them certain misunderstandings can be very useful. Not in the sense of trying to convert anyone, but simply to help them to more properly understand what the Church actually believes and teaches.
In such a case person takes the attitude that, “You may not agree with the teaching, but here is what it is. I’m not going to argue the point, simply present it”.

Then - if they try to insist on arguing it…you simply become a “broken record” repeating that you will not argue the belief…you will simply present it.

Peace
James

 

[Daneam]

I wouldn’t quote MT on if we should proclaim the Gospels. St. Peter said that we should always be ready to give reasons for our hope. The problem is 90 percent of the Catholics do not have a habit to study daily Mass readings. I think they need to get in shape in Scriptures.

I would ask them where in the Bible says Bible Alone and Faith Alone, two pillars that Protestantnism stands or fall. Both Luther’s doctrines are totally unbiblical. So focus how they can defend thousands of denominations and Popes who is telling the truth? Ask them why their definition of born again is against Jesus’ teaching in John 3 in his discourse on how to be born again with Nicodemus.

 

[JRKH]

I wouldn’t quote MT on if we should proclaim the Gospels. St. Peter said that we should always be ready to give reasons for our hope. The problem is 90 percent of the Catholics do not have a habit to study daily Mass readings. I think they need to get in shape in Scriptures.

I would ask them where in the Bible says Bible Alone and Faith Alone, two pillars that Protestantnism stands or fall. Both Luther’s doctrines are totally unbiblical. So focus how they can defend thousands of denominations and Popes who is telling the truth? Ask them why their definition of born again is against Jesus’ teaching in John 3 in his discourse on how to be born again with Nicodemus.

There is a bit of a disconnect between your second paragraph and you first. If one is going to challenge the protestant to “show me in the bible”…One needs to be properly prepared for two things…

1. The texts that they will likely use and 2) The texts necessary to demonstrate the fallacy of the conclusions they have drawn from those texts.
   To do these this one needs to be at least in descent “shape on Scriptures” and basic apologetics.

Peace
James

 

[may_they_be_one]

I wouldn’t quote MT on if we should proclaim the Gospels. St. Peter said that we should always be ready to give reasons for our hope. The problem is 90 percent of the Catholics do not have a habit to study daily Mass readings. I think they need to get in shape in Scriptures.

Amen.

And actually, according to the extensive research done by the Catherine of Siena Institute (a program of the Western Province of Dominicans), only 5% of the active laity who serve in parishes are “intentional disciples” (i.e., one who truly knows, lives, and shares their Catholic faith)–specifically, faith in the Good News of salvation through the death and resurrection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I think most cultural Catholics would become more authentically “Catholic” by joining the fundamentalist church. And then, as they search and grow in wisdom through their Scripture study, they’ll likely return to the Catholic Church at some point in the future with a real desire to live and share their faith.

It’s happening more and more…

 

[Daneam]

think most cultural Catholics would become more authentically “Catholic” by joining the
fundamentalist church"

It breaks my heart by what you said. But what I observed coming into the Church in the last couple years proved your point. I am still in tears on what to say to my in laws. My wife’s sister remarried a man who is also civilly divorced without annulments on either side(doubt they can get one) the whole family supported the relationship for the last couple years. As strange as it sounds since I did not grow up as a Catholic I did not even know it is a mortal sin to be remarried even I read tons of Catholic apologetic books. So you can imagine my shocked when I tried to researched annulment so my sister in law can receive communion(I think she knew and did not want me to do research) so now what I found out not only that couple but all immediate family members are in mortal sin of scandal. And one of them, the grandmother passed away already. They have a lot of saint statues and pray Rosary(I guess without thinking or meditating the Gospel mysteries through the eyes of Mary). As far as I know they go to Mass on Sundays but no reading of Scriptures at all. I would not think Culture Catholics are Catholics, worse they are raping our Lord at the communion on Sundays.

About the 5 percent can you give me a link? I heard Marcus Grodi mentioned it but he said these 5 percent are convicted Catholics that accept All teachings of Church, did not say they have a zeal to share the Gospels. I never met a Catholic who shares his faith. Without EWTN I would be still a Protestant.

I feel totally alone. Those who teach me to pray the Rosary when I was a Protestant are definitely Culture Catholics, devotion without true conversion.

I agree many would be better followers of Christ becoming Protestants because they just go through motions as “Catholics”.

 

[may_they_be_one]

About the 5 percent can you give me a link? I heard Marcus Grodi mentioned it but he said these 5 percent are convicted Catholics that accept All teachings of Church, did not say they have a zeal to share the Gospels.

It’s mentioned in Forming Intentional Disciples, by Sherry Weddell. I don’t have the page number in front of me, but it’s based on their (Western Province of Dominicans) work with over 150 parishes and tens of thousands of parish leaders (lay and ordained).

 

[Daneam]

Thanks a lot. It seems like impossible to follow Christ when I was a Protestant due to wrong teachings and much heat aches, loneliness now I am a Catholic because everyone I know are cultural Catholics. Many even have private devotions(like reciting Rosary without thinking) but no conversion of hearts.

 

[thomasf]

My mom has acquired a second job to make some extra money. This job is usually in the evenings and on weekends along with her full-time job. She started this job last September. This place is a restaurant, and it’s owned by people we have known for years. Well, my mom has run herself into a religious dilemma. Most of the workers there are born-agains who attend this new church in town. They will typically recite Bible verses randomly and talk about salvation, redemption, etc. They know me pretty well, and they approached my mom the one day and said, “Why does your son believe in what the Catholic Church teaches? Because it’s not biblical.” My mom said that I have always believed the Catholic Church to be the fullness of faith in every manner because it is the original Church of Christ, and if you would crack open a history book, you would know that. They asked her if I learned about “salvation and redemption” at my church. My mom said, “Yes we do.” And then it went from there from what she told me. Basically, they are born-again fundamentalists, which doesn’t mix well with Catholicism. The waitresses started to go to this new church I was talking about, and they got the one owner to start going as well, so she’s on the bandwagon as well, asking my mother why I believe in the Catholic Church so strongly.

My mom came home one day from that job with a bag of stuff. I said, “What’s that?”, and she opened the bag and showed me that the owner gave her all these books written by Joel Olsteen. I told her that she has no business reading those, and she’s better off reading the Scott Hahn and other Catholic-based books that I have because they benefit her spiritual well-being more than Joel Olsteen.

Am I being bitter about this? I mean, why do they have to be so pushy about their religion in the work place? Isn’t there a time and place for everything? I hear that they do this regularly, so it’s sort of bothering me. I want to go and give them some of my Catholic books, so they can see where I’m coming from, but I don’t know if that will just fuel the flames.

Should I coach my mother on what to say to them whenever they bring it up again? I feel like they may be trying to trip her on her words, so I’m a little suspicious.

The first thing you need to do is make sure your mother isn’t being affected by all this, make sure she is strong and confident in her faith. Sounds like they’re trying to tear her away from the faith, and you don’t want that to happen.

Then I suggest you go in and speak to some of them. Defend your faith. And make it clear that you don’t appreciate them harassing your mother at work, as she works 2 jobs and has a lot on her plate right now.