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DarkLight
Guest
Unfortunately that already happens in the US. Mostly in places with insufficient support for those in need. Part of that issue is going to be also resolving the care for those in need in general.
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PetraG
Guest
Yes. I can’t say I wouldn’t break into a store if the worst that would happen is that I’d be locked up in a warm dry place with enough food. When you’re starving and exposed to the elements, you’d go to a pretty bad place if it were the only way to survive.Unfortunately that already happens in the US. Mostly in places with insufficient support for those in need. Part of that issue is going to be also resolving the care for those in need in general.
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commenter
Guest
It’s hard to compare different kinds of societies. Norway is a far more homogeneous society than the US. In the US, a large percentage of inmates were in effect shifted over from the Mental Health system, some from Developmental Disabilities, when those systems rapidly closed institutions.
Solitary confinement can be abused, true. But sometimes it is necessary to reduce risk of violence to other prisoners. In the US civil liberties advocates would object to “extra” sentences added on at the end of a sentence, without a new conviction.
There are hazards to making length of sentences contingent on someone’s assessment of your readiness.
Solitary confinement can be abused, true. But sometimes it is necessary to reduce risk of violence to other prisoners. In the US civil liberties advocates would object to “extra” sentences added on at the end of a sentence, without a new conviction.
There are hazards to making length of sentences contingent on someone’s assessment of your readiness.
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Theo520
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your link did not work for me, but here is an earlier snapshot.C. S. Lewis’ view:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190222193403/http://www.angelfire.com/pro/lewiscs/humanitarian.html
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Theo520
Guest
In addition to their homogeneous culture/society, they are blessed with persistently low unemployment that bounces between 2 to 5%.
Low unemployment is really a god send when you are trying get people with criminal records trained and in the workforce upon their release.
Low unemployment is really a god send when you are trying get people with criminal records trained and in the workforce upon their release.
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PetraG
Guest
They may also have very different rules concerning what authority someone with serious mental health issues has to refuse treatment. We are a nation that protects individual rights quite strenuously. No matter where a nation draws these lines, it involves trade-offs for the citizenry. There isn’t a single protocol that is all positives and no negatives.In addition to their homogeneous culture/society, they are blessed with persistently low unemployment that bounces between 2 to 5%.
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Pattylt
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I’m curious as to whether the mentally ill ever go to prison in the first place. I need to look into it but I wouldn’t be surprised if the mentally ill bypass the prison system from the get go.
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PetraG
Guest
Mental illness and the capacity for moral decision-making is on a continuum and (as we all know from experience) fluxuates even within one person depending on their circumstances. Yes, I’d be curious to know how countries like Norway navigate factors that may mitigate the capacity for self-control and respect for the rule of law.I’m curious as to whether the mentally ill ever go to prison in the first place. I need to look into it but I wouldn’t be surprised if the mentally ill bypass the prison system from the get go.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
Norway is not largely socialist. It has a pretty free economy; it simply also has a large welfare state.And being a largely socialist country
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Theo520
Guest
Norway is also not an appropriate role model for other countries, who don’t have their geographic blessing of immense Govt controlled oil wealth combined with a small population.Norway is not largely socialist. It has a pretty free economy; it simply also has a large welfare state.
Similarly the policies of Saudi Arabia are also not translatable to normal countries.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
Maybe Venezuela should pay attention.Norway is also not an inappropriate role model for other countries, who don’t have their geographic blessing of immense Govt controlled oil wealth combined with a small population.
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Theo520
Guest
Key differences with VenezuelaMaybe Venezuela should pay attention.
Oil revenue per person
Norway is #5 in oil bbl/day per person while Venezuela is ranked #16, below Canada. Norway produces about x5 the oil per person as Venezuela. All that extra oil per person covers a lot of govt expense.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Oil/Production/Per-capita
Economic liberty
Norway is very capitalistic outside of the oil industry, on par with the USA. In contrast Venezuela implemented policies that greatly constrained the benefits of capitalism.
Economic Freedom Score by Year - chart
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HopkinsReb
Guest
This was my point…Venezuela has a small population and loads of oil, but has taken a dramatically different approach than Norway. Perhaps they should emulate Norway instead of emulating Mao.Economic liberty
Norway is very capitalistic outside of the oil industry, on par with the USA. In contrast Venezuela implemented policies that greatly constrained the benefits of capitalism.
Economic Freedom Score by Year - chart
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
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commenter
Guest
This thread is interesting. I didn’t know about the oil wealth. When there is lots of money available, that can make a lot of models look good, if the money is spent smartly
It seems like someone is always using Scandinavia as a role model for intelligent, compassionate society. Color me skeptical.
It seems like someone is always using Scandinavia as a role model for intelligent, compassionate society. Color me skeptical.
blackforest
Well-known member
Fair enough, but their prison system is certainly part of that “welfare state.” To be clear, I don’t mind is or consider the s-word necessarily a dirty word . . .
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HopkinsReb
Guest
“Socialism” is a word that has a meaning, and that word does not describe Norway.To be clear, I don’t mind is or consider the s-word necessarily a dirty word . . .
Prisons are not part of the welfare state. They’re part of the criminal justice system.
blackforest
Well-known member
It’s a gray area in this case because they’re assisting prisoners on a social-services level, i.e. with vocational training and psycho-social interventions. Socialism itself is widely misunderstood and has too great a stigma attached to it,.
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HopkinsReb
Guest
It’s not really a gray area; they’ve just decided that robust social services within the criminal justice system are the best approach to rehabilitating criminals. It’s a fundamentally different thing than the welfare state, which is geared towards helping the poor. If they were using prisons as part of the welfare state, there’d be an international outcry!It’s a gray area in this case because they’re assisting prisoners on a social-services level, i.e. with vocational training and psycho-social interventions.
AgreedSocialism itself is widely misunderstood
Too great? Its body count suggests that it should have more stigma attached to it.has too great a stigma attached to it,.
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