How not to sin?

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VickK

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Sorry about the subject – the answer is clear, but getting to it - proven difficult.

Here is my situation: I am Roman Catholic (RC), wife is Orthodox Christian(OC). Been in marriage for over 10 years, 2 kids. In process of renewing my Faith(RC) realised used of condoms is big No (Mortal Sin) – alternative NFP (for smart phone user : OvuView is really cool application for it!).

A bit of background: Orthodox Christians have similar document to Humanae Vitae (the document which banned used of contraceptives), but use of non-abortive contraceptives (ie condoms) not considered to be a Mortal Sin (but not welcomed).

Problem: Can’t make my wife (really love her, she is my best friend too) to agree to practice NFP. She sees to be scared, as with NFP, she thinks, eventually she will get pregnant as :a) 3 will be more difficult; b) 3rd C-Section may be risky; c) wants to get back to her carrier path; d) not much support from relatives; e) afraid can be too much for me and for her to manage.

So, I am in a state of Mortal Sin, it’s really difficult for me – can’t get it off me – I don’t see any resolution so far. Never been so sensitive – as I think about it – my eyes start watering – had to hide few times from other so no one sees my crying.

If you had or heard of similar case, please share with me…

Done:
  • Stats of NFP been reviewed – yes, it’s ~ 99%, somewhat similar to use of condom.
  • Yes, lot’s of research done and shared
  • Talk to Priest – he supports me, suggested to abstain from sex (my wife doesn’t understand what she has done wrong)
  • Most importantly – yes, I realize Jesus suffers because of me…
Really appreciate any help,
Vic
 
I don’t have an answer, however (if it helps), you and your family are in my prayers. :grouphug:
 
Read up on the Marquette Method, buy her a fertility monitor 🙂

Find a fertilitycare.org/ Creighton instructor near you, make an appointment and ask your wife to just to and meet with the teacher.
 
Of course you know how not to sin, but I think what you are looking for is the courage to not sin. Pray that God may give you courage.

“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” (1 Cor 10:13)
 
Pray together and regularly. So often we try to combat disunity through talking to each other, arguing our points and trying to win the other to our position. We forget that the closer a couple is to God, the closer the couple will be united under God. Hand over your martial troubles, your fears, your desire to be close and your desire not to ask too much of each other as well as your desire to please God into His hands. He will work on both your hearts.

I’d say you’re on morally trouble ground here. There is more here than just the immorality of using condoms. God does not want your marriage to fall apart. He does not want you to lose the sacramental graces of the marital embrace that help to foster unity. He does not want you to dismiss your spouse’s feelings and fears. I would continually bring this issue up in confession. When you don’t give in, bring up where you feel sin might be influencing your approach to taking the morally right path on contraceptives. Remember to keep your examination of conscience complete. Its very easy for us to obsess about sexual sins to the point where recognizing our other sins becomes impossible.

Also recognize that it is impossible to stop sinning. We are slaves to sin. Our sinful tendencies touch everything. Many times I’ve found sinful tendencies have touched how I’ve approached overcoming other sins. Avoiding sin is not merely an act of the will you do. You don’t save yourself. It is overall surrendering your life to God and allowing Him to transform you.

God will see you and your wife through this.
 
Hi Vic,

I’m not sure I have a lot of advice, but I can certainly relate. I am also going through almost the exact same situation and know first hand how tough it is. I also came to the realization that using condoms is a grave matter. I simply could no longer overlook it so after the birth of our second I asked my wife to consider using NFP. I dont know what I was expecting from her, but let’s just say it did not go well. In my case, however, I refused to use condoms ever again. I decided that nothing is worth committing mortal sins, nothing. Fast forward 7 months and we are still struggling with this issue and she has threatened divorce multiple times.

Based on my limited understanding and reading, the Church teaches (see Vademecum of Confessors) that the non-contracepting spouse may cooperate with the contracepting spouse so long as the non-contracepting spouse makes it clear that they do not want to use any form of contraception and that they occasionally (not necessarily on every occasion) encourage the contracepting spouse to cease. If they do this, only the contracepting spouse is culpable. As in any situation, we must be patient, kind, merciful, and continue to pray for the conversion of the contracepting spouse. Additional consideration should be given as to whether the form of contraception is acting as an abortifacient (pill, IUD, etc.). I can only recommend that you stop using condoms immediately. If she absolutely has to use contraception, she can find some sort of barrier method as my wife did.

An additional issue arose for me when I asked my priest whether the non-contracepting spouse could ever initiate relations with contracepting spouse. There seems to be some gray area with it, but I was told that the non-contracepting spouse could not initiate relations. This is the part I have really been struggling with. It has caused alot of pain to my wife since I was the one who normally initiated. In many cases, I’m afraid I have caused her to feel unwanted and unloved. It has damaged our marriage.

I know deep in my soul, though, that this is something I had to do. I don’t know how it will end, but I sincerely hope that it will work out and she will come around. If anything, the suffering I’ve endured has made me grow more spiritually than at any other point in my life. Continue the good fight, I dont think it is in vain. Continue to pray, go to mass and Confession as often as possible. Go to Eucharistic Adoration, pray the Rosary. Trust only in God’s Will and you’ll be allright. I think I’m partly reminding myself what I need to keep doing, but if you say a prayer or two for me, I’ll keep you in mine.

P.S. I’m writing this from the basement because I’m not currently allowed in the bedroom (hehe!).

Peace my friend.
 
DChokie84 said:
Hi Vic,

I’m not sure I have a lot of advice, but I can certainly relate. I am also going through almost the exact same situation and know first hand how tough it is. I also came to the realization that using condoms is a grave matter. I simply could no longer overlook it so after the birth of our second I asked my wife to consider using NFP. I dont know what I was expecting from her, but let’s just say it did not go well. In my case, however, I refused to use condoms ever again. I decided that nothing is worth committing mortal sins, nothing. Fast forward 7 months and we are still struggling with this issue and she has threatened divorce multiple times.

Based on my limited understanding and reading, the Church teaches (see Vademecum of Confessors) that the non-contracepting spouse may cooperate with the contracepting spouse so long as the non-contracepting spouse makes it clear that they do not want to use any form of contraception and that they occasionally (not necessarily on every occasion) encourage the contracepting spouse to cease. If they do this, only the contracepting spouse is culpable. As in any situation, we must be patient, kind, merciful, and continue to pray for the conversion of the contracepting spouse. Additional consideration should be given as to whether the form of contraception is acting as an abortifacient (pill, IUD, etc.). I can only recommend that you stop using condoms immediately. If she absolutely has to use contraception, she can find some sort of barrier method as my wife did.

An additional issue arose for me when I asked my priest whether the non-contracepting spouse could ever initiate relations with contracepting spouse. There seems to be some gray area with it, but I was told that the non-contracepting spouse could not initiate relations. This is the part I have really been struggling with. It has caused alot of pain to my wife since I was the one who normally initiated. In many cases, I’m afraid I have caused her to feel unwanted and unloved. It has damaged our marriage.

I know deep in my soul, though, that this is something I had to do. I don’t know how it will end, but I sincerely hope that it will work out and she will come around. If anything, the suffering I’ve endured has made me grow more spiritually than at any other point in my life. Continue the good fight, I dont think it is in vain. Continue to pray, go to mass and Confession as often as possible. Go to Eucharistic Adoration, pray the Rosary. Trust only in God’s Will and you’ll be allright. I think I’m partly reminding myself what I need to keep doing, but if you say a prayer or two for me, I’ll keep you in mine.

P.S. I’m writing this from the basement because I’m not currently allowed in the bedroom (hehe!).

Peace my friend.
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Hello:)

Is your wife afraid of becoming pregnant?

I think you really need to be very careful now. Explain to her everything you think and believe about why condom use is wrong. And make sure that you nurture the friendship and all other communication in your marriage at this very important time.
From a spouse who does not understand, suddenly changing the rules in the marriage, can seem very cruel… and yes, rejection causes seperations big time. Communication is the only thing that can hinder it. Let your wife know that you are as attracted to her as ever and you wanna work things out so you can both enjoy sex and do it in a moral way.

Another advice for you two gentlemen to think about:
Its possible you could tell your wives that if they do become pregnant even while using the stricter form of NFP, you will be the ones to mainly take care of the babys in the first few years if necessary… this can be done…🙂
 
I think, IMHO, that the only solution is to simply refuse to positively engage in sin. She’s an Orthodox, so hopefully she understands the dangers of knowingly engaging in mortal sin for your soul. She may not agree that this is a mortal sin- but you believe it is, so for you engaging in it is not an option.

Anything that requires YOU to be the one doing the contracepting is a no no. Vasectomy or male condoms- Just pray and simply refuse to use them ever again. There’s a Catholic document -A form of Vatican guidelines for Catholics whose spouses insist on using contraceptives, or something like that. I don’t have it on my finger tips- But google it- There are a few commentaries on those rules- they’ll be quite helpful.

In a nutshell, it says something like this: You can’t ever under any circumstances do the contracepting yourself, that is, be the actively contracepting party- But there are circumstances in which you can co-operate in the sin of another when the situation warrants it. You can co-operate in contracepted sex (as long as it’s non-abortifacent) with your wife/husband, where the other spouse is the one doing the contracepting against your expressed will.

Provided that:
a) You let her know the truth about it (That it’s evil, wrong etc)
b) You let her know that you completely disapprove of her using it.
c) You weigh the harm of refusal to completely engage in the marital act (another serious evil) while your spouse is contracepting against the harm of having sex with a contracepting spouse, against your expressed will. Consider if refusing sex will risk harming the marriage, or cause either of you to commit other sins like adultery etc And decide (hopefully with a spiritual guide) for the lesser evil of the two. It may turn out to be better to continue marital relations with your wife while letting her know your stand against any contraception that she may be using.
d) You CANNOT agree to have sex with her while she’s on pills that may cause abortion (abortifacent pills), under any circumstances. This is because the danger/evil of aborting a baby is far worse and always outweighs the harm of not engaging in sex in a marriage. So where the contraception involves abortifacent methods, your duty is to always refuse sex.
e) As long as you are together and continue to engage in the sex while she contracepts, you just do your best to bring her to see the truth about it.

In short:- Simply do NOT use condoms or vasectomy at all, nor have sex with her while she’s on any abortifacent pill- Let her know you cannot knowingly put your soul at risk of damnation. If she decides to contracept herself in a non-abortifacent way that does not directly involve you, consider the points above and talk to a Priest- you can engage in sex with her while trying to teach her the truth. Just do not directly contracept, yourself.

Peace.
 
Pomme said:
Look into LadyComp?
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Yes, I actually just bought it a few days ago in hopes that my wife would be willing to give it a try. I was hoping it would make things a little easier since there is no disputing that NFP is more intensive for the female. Unfortunately, she seems to be even rejecting that and wont try. I dont want to hijack Vick’s thread, but I’m in the same boat.
 
Marybeloved said:
Got it! I found an answer by an Apologist from 2008 that cites the Church documents, right here at CAF. It’s a thread Titled: What to do if spouses cannot agree on birth control? at the: Ask an Apologist Forum. Read it here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=61621

Peace.
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Thanks for the detailed information. I guess the part I’m struggling with has to do with the intiation aspect. Can the non-contracepting spouse initiate relations when contraception will be used by the other party? I cant seem to find information on it. One priest told me absolutely not and one said yes. The initiation aspect of this is what has pushed my particular marriage to the brink. We cant seem to get past it.
 
DChokie84, brother, I pray for. Can’t tell how thankful I am to you, how much courage and strength I got from your post. My wife totally understands NFP, but can’t accept it. She feels like all her plans for future is cancelled, and she is getting into something really bad. Just like you, brother, said - trying to comfort her at my best, hoping and praying. Just like you said, deep in my soul I know I am doing right thing and will keep on doing it.

Marybeloved, thank you for such a detail information. Hope abstaining, praying will make a difference. Hope soon… My wife already asked is it OK if she starts taking pills, my reaction was obvious…

All who have replayed, thank you very much for your support and prayers - I can feel it. Thank you again.

Pease,
Vic:)
 
DChokie84 said:
Thanks for the detailed information. I guess the part I’m struggling with has to do with the intiation aspect. Can the non-contracepting spouse initiate relations when contraception will be used by the other party? I cant seem to find information on it. One priest told me absolutely not and one said yes. The initiation aspect of this is what has pushed my particular marriage to the brink. We cant seem to get past it.
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DChokie,

Well, I’m not an expert. From what I understand, the Church nowhere said that the non-contracepting spouse could never initiate sex, but many commentators are of the opinion that they should not.

I think that especially where the innocent party is the man, this rule of never initiating sex could prove fatal to the marriage, possibly. Men are naturally, even in marriage, the initiators and pursuers, so I imagine that a situation where the wife must constantly initiate sex, really could prove dangerous to the existence of the marriage and possibly risk divorce. I suppose that, like the other issues, this must be weighed against the other potential dangers- Risking divorce, adultery and other sins, vs initiating sex (which is for the most part the man’s “natural” role) in a marriage. I don’t really know the reasoning behind the “no initiating sex” rule, so I can’t tell if it can be dispensed with in some circumstances or not.

My own layman’s thinking is to ask if initiating sex with a contracepting partner is a sin in and of itself? That is: Is it (the rule) mainly to discourage/to avoid encouraging the contracepting spouse in their contracepting, or is it (the rule) because the initiation is itself sinful?

You really should speak with a good priest who is Orthodox and has some good experience counselling couples. I’m looking around the net, so if I find anything that can help you with this, I’ll post it here. 😉
 
Marybeloved said:
I think that especially where the innocent party is the man, this rule of never initiating sex could prove fatal to the marriage, possibly. Men are naturally, even in marriage, the initiators and pursuers, so I imagine that a situation where the wife must constantly initiate sex, really could prove dangerous to the existence of the marriage and possibly risk divorce. I suppose that, like the other issues, this must be weighed against the other potential dangers- Risking divorce, adultery and other sins, vs initiating sex (which is for the most part the man’s “natural” role) in a marriage. I don’t really know the reasoning behind the “no initiating sex” rule, so I can’t tell if it can be dispensed with in some circumstances or not.
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This is exactly what is happening in my situation. The lack of initiation on my part is proving to be fatal to our marriage. Based on what I was told, the act of initiating is inviting the other spouse to commit to a grave sin. This in turn is considered active participation in a grave sin on the part of the non-contracepting party and by default would be mortal sin.

I will accept whatever the Church teaches, but if I’m going to lose my marriage because of this, I was hoping to find out if this is really what the Church teaches. I dont know if I’m taking it too far. Why would the Church even allow a non-contracepting spouse to cooperate with a contracepting spouse in the first place? In my mind, it’s to prevent divorces and keep marriages together until the contracepting spouse can come around to the truth. I dont know though. Thanks again for your responses.
 
I thought I might provide an update to my above post. Perhaps, it may assist others who struggle with a related issue at some later date. I was able to track down an expert on Catholic sexual morality, marriage, and family at the John Paull II Institute. He has written numerous books and papers and is very well credentialed. I was very surprised he actually responded to my email!

In regard to the question about my initiation of the marital act when a spouse refuses not to contracept, he stated that the priest who told me not to initiate intercourse and to be passive as far as possible was perhaps too rigoristic. The moral object specifying my act was not to satisfy any concupiscent desire but rather to protect my marriage and children (he recommended reading what John Paul II has to say about the specification of human acts and the moral object in Veritatis Splendor, no. 78, in particular his statement that in order to grasp the moral object we must place ourselves in the perspective of the acting person.)

Furthermore, he double checked with a second expert who agreed that I am not sinning by initiating relations with my wife. See Pius Xi in Casti Connubii. They also state, however, that I should avoid the danger of making this routine and perhaps then consenting to the evil that my wife is doing. They recommend keeping after he with patience and also asking her to respect my views and to understand how difficult the situation is.

I was propably overthinking things, but I thought it’s probably better to be safe than sorry when dealing with grave matter.
 
DChokie84 said:
I thought I might provide an update to my above post. Perhaps, it may assist others who struggle with a related issue at some later date. I was able to track down an expert on Catholic sexual morality, marriage, and family at the John Paull II Institute. He has written numerous books and papers and is very well credentialed. I was very surprised he actually responded to my email!

In regard to the question about my initiation of the marital act when a spouse refuses not to contracept, he stated that the priest who told me not to initiate intercourse and to be passive as far as possible was perhaps too rigoristic. The moral object specifying my act was not to satisfy any concupiscent desire but rather to protect my marriage and children (he recommended reading what John Paul II has to say about the specification of human acts and the moral object in Veritatis Splendor, no. 78, in particular his statement that in order to grasp the moral object we must place ourselves in the perspective of the acting person.)

Furthermore, he double checked with a second expert who agreed that I am not sinning by initiating relations with my wife. See Pius Xi in Casti Connubii. They also state, however, that I should avoid the danger of making this routine and perhaps then consenting to the evil that my wife is doing. They recommend keeping after he with patience and also asking her to respect my views and to understand how difficult the situation is.

I was propably overthinking things, but I thought it’s probably better to be safe than sorry when dealing with grave matter.
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I’m so happy about this!! 👍

I hope you can now start on work to pull your marriage from the edge of the cliff. By the way, have you (The OP too) thought about praying to t. Joseph about this? His feast is in 8 days and he’s patron of families. Do invite him to help with the marriage and contraception things.

Peace.
 
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