How Often Are Dispensations For Mixed Marriages Granted?

[oldgraymare2]

Hi bben,

Yes, I was given a dispensation in order to have my marriage convalidated. There weren’t any problems.

This was a long time ago–over 25 years ago–so I am trying to remember the details.

My husband and I met with the pastor of the church I was going to at the time. We had to sign lots of papers and we did go through Pre-Cana classes with the pastor.

We had to meet together with him, and also separately, too.

After all was said and done, we could choose to either have our ceremony in the church, or a quiet ceremony in the rectory. We decided to have it in the rectory.

 

[Phemie]

You would not get a dispensation to marry a Catholic cousin never mind a non-Catholic cousin unless the cousin was far removed. Canon Law is very strict on this.

The Church will give a dispensation for first cousins to marry. Any further apart and there is no impediment of consanguinity.

 

[thistle]

The Church will give a dispensation for first cousins to marry. Any further apart and there is no impediment of consanguinity.

Its my understanding that first cousins are related in the fourth degree of consanguinity and marriage is not permitted.

Can. 1091 §1 Marriage is invalid between those related by consanguinity in all degrees of the direct line, whether ascending or descending, legitimate or natural.

§2 In the collateral line, it is invalid up to the fourth degree inclusive.

§3 The impediment of consanguinity is not multiplied.

§4 A marriage is never to be permitted if a doubt exists as to whether the parties are related by consanguinity in any degree of the direct line, or in the second degree of the collateral line.

Can. 1092 Affinity in any degree of the direct line invalidates marriage.

 

[Gilly_flower]

You would not get a dispensation to marry a Catholic cousin never mind a non-Catholic cousin unless the cousin was far removed. Canon Law is very strict on this.

Thistle I hate to disappoint you so badly but I received a dispensation, as I said in a previous post, within a week and was married in the same Catholic parish church where my parents and grandparents were married.

 

[thistle]

Thistle I hate to disappoint you so badly but I received a dispensation, as I said in a previous post, within a week and was married in the same Catholic parish church where my parents and grandparents were married.

Why would I be disappointed? I was imply pointing out that first cousins are related in the fourth degree of consanguinity and that Canon Law does not allow marriage. Any dispensation would have to be for some special reason and would require the Bishop’s involvement.
If you don’t mind me asking are you first cousins and if so what was the reason for the dispensation. If you don’t want to answer that because its too personal that’s okay. I’m just asking because you must have received the dispensation.

 

[Gilly_flower]

There was no “special reason” except that we were young and in love and planned to marry having loved each other since childhood.

Now we are old and in love after a life time’s happiness together, with children and grandchildren we also love very much.

I am bemused as to why you insist this can’t be so in the face of the facts…

Perhaps you would advise me to revisit our marriage, have it declared void and our children illegitimate and that we should immediately stop living in sin…

 

[Phemie]

Why would I be disappointed? I was imply pointing out that first cousins are related in the fourth degree of consanguinity and that Canon Law does not allow marriage. Any dispensation would have to be for some special reason and would require the Bishop’s involvement.
If you don’t mind me asking are you first cousins and if so what was the reason for the dispensation. If you don’t want to answer that because its too personal that’s okay. I’m just asking because you must have received the dispensation.

The Church will grant dispensation for 4th degree of consanguinity. My parents got one and there was no special reason for it. In fact, originally the bishop said no but their pastor went to bat for them and eventually it was granted. Dad thought that perhaps Mom’s congenital hip dislocation was the reason for the refusal in the first place but was never sure.

In small communities like the ones I served recently, it was granted to probably 2/3 of the couples getting married. A look through the historical marriage records of my birth parish shows that dispensations for consanguinity were not rare even between the mid 1800s and early 1900s.

 

[Gilly_flower]

I suspect that they were more common because before the advent of trains most people remained - I read somewhere in relation to village communities in France - within five miles of where they were born. These days societies are much more mobile and the pool of likely spouses infinitely larger.

 

[Phemie]

I suspect that they were more common because before the advent of trains most people remained - I read somewhere in relation to village communities in France - within five miles of where they were born. These days societies are much more mobile and the pool of likely spouses infinitely larger.

True enough. The small communities I served recently were isolated and hard to reach. The gene pool was rather small and you can usually pick out people from one particular community out of a crowd.

 

[thistle]

Its not my place to question the Church on these matters but what is the point of such a Canon Law if its essentially going to be ignored, which from the posts in this thread appears to be the case.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Its not my place to question the Church on these matters but what is the point of such a Canon Law if its essentially going to be ignored, which from the posts in this thread appears to be the case.

It follows canon law

Can. 1078 §1. The local ordinary can dispense his own subjects residing anywhere and all actually present in his own territory from all impediments of ecclesiastical law except those whose dispensation is reserved to the Apostolic See
§2. Impediments whose dispensation is reserved to the Apostolic See are:

1/ the impediment arising from sacred orders or from a public perpetual vow of chastity in a religious institute of pontifical right;

2/ the impediment of crime mentioned in ⇒ can. 1090.

§3. A dispensation is never given from the impediment of consanguinity in the direct line or in the second degree of the collateral line.

First cousins are related to the fourth degree of consanguinity, so it is within the local bishop’s authority to grant a dispensation. A dispensation would be more than a little odd in our culture but still pretty common in some parts of the world.

 

[Phemie]

It follows canon law

First cousins are related to the fourth degree of consanguinity, so it is within the local bishop’s authority to grant a dispensation. A dispensation would be more than a little odd in our culture but still pretty common in some parts of the world.

It also couldn’t be dispensed in an area where civil law prohibits the marriage of first cousins, as in certain US states, because the Church obeys the law of the land (with certain rare exceptions).

In Canada, I’m not aware of any province prohibiting the marriage of first cousins.

 

[livingwordunity]

Hello. I was curious. How often are dispensations for mixed marriages granted by bishops? If you petition your bishop for a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic, what are your chances of being granted the dispensation?

Also, are the chances of being granted a dispensation for this situation any different than 60-70 years ago?

God bless you for answering my question.

I hope the Church doesn’t grant these dispensations often since they usually end up in disaster. And, when it fails, the couple will be angry at the Church for not granting them an annulment. I used to be in a relationship with a non-Catholic woman. I was living in sin since I was a Catholic, and we were living together without being married though the Church. At the time, I was being ruled by my emotions, and I thought the relationship could work. So, I tried to get her to agree to us getting married through the Catholic Church. But she thought it would be too much hassle. Looking back, I’m glad for that extra hassle because little did I know at the time that the relationship was going to fail epically. But, I met a beautiful Catholic woman afterwards. We got married through the Church, have two children together, and we just celebrated our 10th wedding anniversary.

 

[OraLabora]

I hope the Church doesn’t grant these dispensations often since they usually end up in disaster.

I am sorry for your experience, but it is anecdotal and does not mean dispensations “usually end up in disaster”.

My Anglican father married my Catholic mother in 1955 with a dispensation. Part of the dispensation was that I be brought up Catholic. They were happily married until my father’s sudden death from a stroke after 16 years of marriage.

I am married to an Anglican woman, and we have been happily married for 25 years.

To be sure there can be, and there has been, some frictions, but now that we’re in our 50s we’ve manage to let go of all that and we are extremely happy together.

I realize my experience does not make a trend either. I not claiming that “most end up working out just fine”. I am just saying that some work, some don’t, just like some Catholic marriages work, and some don’t.

 

[livingwordunity]

I am sorry for your experience, but it is anecdotal and does not mean dispensations “usually end up in disaster”.

There are real reasons why divorce is more likely with interfaith couples. They have a lot of extra problems that same-faith couples don’t have, especially when kids are involved. If it works out, it is despite these extra problems. A study I found on it says, “Divorce is three times more prevalent in interfaith families with children than in same-faith households, according to the first national statistical look at the issue.” (Source) And, if one does an internet browser search for “interfaith divorce statistics,” just about everything that comes up in the search will say that these kinds of relationships are more likely to fail. My personal experience with being in an interfaith relationship is the norm of what usually happens. And, as I said, Catholics will get angry at the Church for allowing them to marry when their relationship fails.

 

[Gilly_flower]

Its not my place to question the Church on these matters but what is the point of such a Canon Law if its essentially going to be ignored, which from the posts in this thread appears to be the case.

There was no reason for us not to be married, so no reason why our happiness should have been denied simply to obey “the rules”. Perhaps it is Canon law which needs to be revisited…or at least, as in our case, administered with an eye to common sense and kindness.

 

[thistle]

There was no reason for us not to be married, so no reason why our happiness should have been denied simply to obey “the rules”. Perhaps it is Canon law which needs to be revisited…or at least, as in our case, administered with an eye to common sense and kindness.

I think the law about cousins was set for a reason, and not simply religious reasons. That’s why it is also the law of the land in some countries.
Happiness is not a reason to ignore the rules. Gays argue the same about the Church teachings!

 

[Phemie]

I think the law about cousins was set for a reason, and not simply religious reasons. That’s why it is also the law of the land in some countries.
Happiness is not a reason to ignore the rules. Gays argue the same about the Church teachings!

I think the law on first cousins is based on genetics. If there are no genetic reasons for them not to marry then there is really no reason not to allow marriage.

 

[Gilly_flower]

Thistle it is hard to debate sensibly with someone so utterly determined to be “right”, so I will merely observe that your didactic style is less than heartwarming and record my gratitude that you do not speak on behalf of the Church.

Indeed I rather wonder if you are not in fact “just a very naughty boy…”

So in the face of such wilful obduracy I must bow out…

 

[Just_Lurking]

My parents married in 1969, my mother is Catholic and my father Episcopalian, there was no problem with a dispensation as long as my father agreed any children could be Catholic. They had full Nuptial Mass.

However, an elderly woman I knew was married in the 1940’s, she wanted to marry a nonCatholic who was happy to go along with any children being Catholic, no problem with his wife being Catholic - and the Pastor at the time refused to perform the marriage ceremony, due to him not being Catholic. Eventually, the man got a job that involved working long days, and the woman’s mother siad he could live in a spare room in their house - and the Pastor promptly agreed to allow them to marry, because he felt the danger of them “living in sin” was greater than the danger of her marrying a non-Catholic. There was no Nuptial Mass, just the vows takem privately in the sacristy.

Bit of a difference there!

The current (easier) rules for dispensations date to 1970 (Pope Paul VI’s Matrimonia Mixta), following a trial period beginning in 1966.