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AlegreFe
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Oh I see.
Lindsay Younce was a Quaker until she did the movie Thérèse. She is now Catholic!! :dancing: :clapping:
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Lindsay Younce was a Quaker until she did the movie Thérèse. She is now Catholic!! :dancing: :clapping:
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**The Presence in the MidstSo “Friends” is a denomination? I never heard of that denomination. Can you start a thread on that? It sounds interesting and now I’m curious.
And Friends have Jesus substantially present? Where? By what means? With what? Can you see Jesus?
By “substantial” we mean that He is really there and we can actually see Him. He is not invisible as in a Spirit form. Jesus is there in more than just a Spirit form, He is there substantially, meaning we could see Him and He is touchable although we never touch Him during Adoration. We only actually touch Him in a real substantial way during Holy Communion. That is what Catholics mean by Jesus actually being there in a substantial way.
A priest who spoke at a Catholics Coming Home session a while back once told us that Jesus is inside of me and in all of us. He said this after I mentioned Jesus in the Tabernacle and that He is actually in there and why don’t people genuflect when they enter into a Church. That priest told us that Jesus is in all of us. I didn’t reply to that, I just left it alone. I really regret that to this day. What I should’ve said was that I would never bow down to him or to anyone else no matter if I know they are Christian and I know they have Jesus in them. I would only bow down to Jesus in the Tabernacle and when He is exposed in a Monstrance for Adoration. He really played down the fact that Jesus is in the Tabernacle as if He was not important in there. All this priest said was that the hosts are in there for taking them to the homebound.He said “hosts!”
That’s Jesus in there, not some hosts! He completely misunderstood my statement and my question. I hope that priest never speaks at such functions ever again. I think he was trying to impress some of the Protestants that were there as guests that came with some fallen away Catholics.
Just my hunch though, I don’t know why he said those things. I mean I know true Christians have Jesus in their hearts and I know that the Protestants who were there also knew that. The priest just didn’t get what I was trying to say.
Worship and Ministry in Words
Early Friends were clear that they came together to wait upon the Lord. They claimed Jesus’ promise in Matthew 18:20, “For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them.” (New Revised Standard Version) They silently gathered to experience Christ’s presence. It is often said that Catholics and Quakers have in common a focus on the actual presence of Christ in worship. For Catholics, Christ is present physically in the communion host. For Quakers, Christ is present spiritually as our priest.
For Friends, Christ is always the true teacher. Christ may deliver a message in words through a human being. This might be through any person present in worship. **
These words are not mine, but I found them pertinent to our discussion.
I understand the distinction you make that Christ is “substantially” present with you in the host…I hope you understand the point I was seeking to make…Christ is truly present among us as our priest…George Fox once stated…“Christ is among us to teach his people himself.”
To us, his presence is a reality in our worship…a living presence to be experienced as truly present…we are coming from different traditions and to cross boundaries to seek to understand one another is difficult at best.
I have no desire to minimimalize your understanding of the Real Presence…you have found a deep profound truth in your worship experience.
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AlegreFe
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:yup: agreed, same here as I’m sure with all Christians.
2 for 2 so far. :yup:
I don’t disagree with you here either.
except I don’t do NRSV. 
I like RSV-CE or RSV-2ndCE; but that’s not important.
I would think that all Christians have Christ present for their worship. Don’t the other protestant Christians say that Jesus is present when they are at their service? I think they do. But with Protestants it’s only a Spiritual presence. I know, some Protestants will argue this as some will say that Jesus is present in their bread for communion, but that’s not true and I’m not open for discussion on that because I’ve talked myself out on that one already and I won’t repeat myself.
*]We have Jesus present in His ordained Ministerial Priest at the Altar
*]We have Jesus present in His Word when we read the Gospel during the Liturgy of the Word
*]We have Jesus present Spritually with the Holy Spirit
*]We have Jesus substantially present during the Liturgy of the Eucharist
*]That Real Presence continues on to Holy Communion and even continues after that.
With all of that we consume Jesus in the most intimate way. We first consume His Word then we consume Jesus by actually eating His Body and Blood. If you want to talk about having a personal relationship with Jesus, we have it in the Mass!
Our relationship with Jesus continues on after that as we are sent out with the dismissal, “Ite missa est” or in English (not the actual word for word translation but the same basic meaning) “the Mass has ended, go in peace to love and serve the Lord.”
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Christ is always the true teacher for us Catholics. Christ delivers His message through the Word and through His Ministerial Priest when he gives us the Homily. The Holy Spirit is always there.
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And who do you think that we have?
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There is nothing difficult here for me and I’m sure for other Catholics here too. Christ is a reality in our Worship. I can understand how you want Jesus truly present in your worship. But I cannot understand how you say He is “substantially” present in your worship. That’s impossible with how you describe the “presence” of Jesus in your worship. What “substance” do you have that makes Jesus present? And it would have to be something that you can eat as that is Jesus’ command for us. So your previous answers are not sufficient to prove to me that Jesus is substantially present in your worship. That can only mean one thing, that He is not substantially present in your worship. I can surely respect that you believe that He is present. I would think that all Christians would say that Jesus is present in their worship services. I totally respect that.
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There is no way that anyone can ever minimalize what I believe is to be the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. As far as my understanding, that is another story. I don’t fully “understand” how Jesus is there. All I know is that the Holy Spirit makes it happen and He makes it happen through the Ministerial Priest. That is all that matters to me. The “how” is not as important as the “fact” that it actually happens and that Jesus actually substantially is present during the Mass and in all Tabernacles of every Catholic Church (and whatever Orthodox is valid) around the world. And as far as finding a deep profound truth in my worship experience, you’re right on that one!
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