How often do you pray in tongues 1cor 12

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All prayer thats genuine is spiritual prayer surely. Praying in tongues is a mystery, but genuine. And I was a sceptic for a long time.
 
You’re definition is “it’s a mystery”?

Is that a quote from the Catechism?
 
Do you see praying in tongues as the trance?

Oh you want Vatican definition of praying in tongues?

Go google! Post the documents here
 
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First, define it so we can be on the same page. There is no Vatican definition.
 
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Nope you get the vatican documents, i am on a very slow old tablet. Or wait till my faster one is charged up
 
??? There are no Vatican documents that I’m aware of. Thus, I’m asking you, or anyone, for a definition so that we can be on the same page before proceeding to discuss it.
 
There are writings by the Vatican regarding the Catholic Charismatic movement. And this movement professes speaking and praying in tongues. And being receptive to any gifts of the Holy Spirit. Go look.

First thing you will find is Holy Father being prayed for, in tongues.
 
That’s a fallacy: an approval of the Catholic Charismatic movement is not an approval of “praying in tongues” which again, I’ve yet to see a definition of. That people are “praying in tongues” for the pope does not establish it as a gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
I have a blog which I occasionally update. In 2015, in response to a retreat that I helped run, I decided to share some of my story. For all intents and purposes, it is the origin story of the “Vagrant Catholic”. What I did not write about in that post is something which happened to me a couple of months after that fateful conference in Ohio, and how I finally obtained knowledge of what happened many years later.

The youth group at my home-town parish had literally just started. Many of us had powerful experiences at that Steubenville conference, others had their own conversions (or “reversions”, I suppose). We were all the “original members” of the group. The priest at the parish did something which seemed radical at the time; a perpetual adoration chapel was built, with 24/6 adoration being present (no adoration on Sundays). Personally, I credit that chapel for the incredible fruits and blessings that have come from that parish.

Around October in 1997, our youth group did a Life in the Spirit Seminar. The first few weeks were good, with things eventually leading up to Week #5; adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, and to be prayed over. I must admit, I had high expectations. My experience at Steubenville during adoration was a watershed moment in my life, I was expecting something similar here. People around me during adoration were praying, and some were clearly having powerful experiences. I went to get prayed over, expecting great things. The people prayed over me, and as they did so I sat and waited. When they eventually finished, I uttered two words;

“Nothing happened”.

I was incredibly disappointed in these turn of events. I sincerely was expecting wonderful things, another powerful experience - but I felt nothing. There was no inner movements whatsoever. I just sat there and literally said two words; “nothing happened”. After I said that, one of the people praying over me said “the night isn’t over yet”.

I went back into room where adoration was happening. I knelt to the ground, and started praying. I’m not exactly sure how long I did that for, but I distinctly remember what happened next; I ended up falling over backwards, and became freezing cold. People told me later that the blood left my hands, that I looked like a ghost. I started physically shaking. My eyes were closed, but I was aware of what was happening to me physically. Yet while this was happening, I felt at peace. There was no turmoil whatsoever. And there was this strange sensation, which I to this day have difficulty describing. This continued until after adoration, where eventually it subsided. Understandably, people were very concerned and outright scared. It was not often talked about afterward.
 
Ever since that experience though, something interesting started happening. During times of intense adoration, the shaking and cold would re-appear. When people were experiencing the Holy Spirit and encountering Jesus for the first time, those physical manifestations returned. When speaking words of exhortation or when evangelizing, words would come out of my mouth without me thinking, and they were always the right thing said at the right time. Inexplicably, I seemed to be able to warn people in advance that there would be spiritual conflict approaching them, telling them what to watch out for and situations that they should avoid.

Conversely, there was other moments. My best friend in college liked a girl, so I went to visit them in her room. When I entered, immediately knew that she was involved in either new age spirituality or the occult. There was some physical manifestations, but also a spiritual sensation. Warning alarms blaring. Sure enough, she had a “protection amulet” in her room. Her roommate, who I am ashamed to say I attempted to pursue a relationship with, had a corner of her room which likewise caused the alarm bells to go off. When I asked her if she had any occult materials present, she said she did; tarot cards. There was many other moments like that. At the time, I couldn’t explain it.

After couple of years after college, I stumbled across a “spiritual gifts course” which was run by the Lay Associates of the Companions of the Cross. After taking the test that they provided and learning about charisms, things became incredibly more clear. Everything that happened from that “Week #5” in October onward began to make sense. The being able to tell when the Lord is working through someone, the ability to sense what is from God and what isn’t. Being able to let people know future situations which they should avoid. Knowing when a place, situation, or people aren’t spiritually safe to be around. Knowing that I can trust in the Lord to guide me to say the right things, to the right people, at the right time. The joy of being able to sense and feel the Lord being present during adoration and during the words of consecration.

The Lord gave me charisms, even when I didn’t know what they were. An incredible blessing!

Armed with knowledge, I began praying to God to guide me on how to use these gifts to build up others and to build up His Church. Within the youth ministry program I was volunteering with, how I can use these charisms to help the kids grow closer to Christ and His Church. How I can bring them to the Sacraments. Now I pray that He gives me guidance regarding these charisms as I begin my journey as a spiritual director (the spiritual direction course I am taking finishes in June 2018).

So yes, I firmly believe the charisms Saint Paul talks about are real, and active in the Church today. You may not agree with this, and that is certainly your prerogative! However, I ask that you be respectful to those that do, And if you can, please consider praying for the charisms of the Holy Spirit, Not a specific one, just for whichever one God sees fit for you to build His Church.
 
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Hope1960 said:
I realize Wikipedia isn’t the best of sources but the CCR sounds like a Pentecostal thing. Something that disappoints me about my resound faith.
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If you look throughout the history of the Church, you can see people use many of these gifts though. Prophecy, discernment of spirits, misc etc.
 
Melchior_1 said:
I sincerely was expecting wonderful things, another powerful experience - but I felt nothing.
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This tells me everything I need to know. The emphasis on feeling.
Melchior_1 said:
I firmly believe the charisms Saint Paul talks about are real
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I do too.
Melchior_1 said:
if you can, please consider praying for the charisms of the Holy Spirit, Not a specific one, just for whichever one God sees fit for you to build His Church.
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I pray for faith, hope, and charity. Not a charism.
 
Boler said:
This tells me everything I need to know. The emphasis on feeling.
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1000 words or so, and you focus on that. Understandable though, as I can see where you are coming from in a sense - there is much in the world being driven by the emotive. However what you mention in this case ignores the concept of “interior movement” or “interior motion”, both of which is language you can find when discussing Carmelite and Ignation spirituality (among others authentic Catholic spiritualities).

When I say “I felt nothing”. I am speaking of the spiritual interior movement. If you would like, I can change my posts to reflect the proper terminology.

Many times I hear traditionalist Catholics speak in loving fashion over the Extraordinary Form. The descriptions they use has language that discussing certain “feelings”. Do you have a problem with the Extraordinary Form as well?
 
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With this movement gaining such traction in the CC, are Catholics required to believe in it? Participate in it?
 
Setting aside for the moment that my subject of discussion is specifically “praying in tongues”.
Melchior_1 said:
1000 words or so, and you focus on that
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Yeah it was long but I read the whole thing. That was clearly the turning point in the story though. And the way you describe it:

“I was expecting something similar here.” People around you were “having powerful experiences” so, " I went to get prayed over, expecting great things. The people prayed over me, and as they did so I sat and waited." “Nothing happened”. “I was incredibly disappointed in these turn of events. I sincerely was expecting wonderful things, another powerful experience - but I felt nothing.”

Sounds like you’re approaching spirituality wrong. I was expecting you to follow that up with something like, “I realized it’s not all about powerful experiences and feelings: it’s about seeking the truth and choosing the good, knowing and loving God in spite of how I feel, through the moments of dryness” as the great spiritual writers might say. But, no. The climax was that you eventually did receive an intense experience.

I’m all for feeling insofar as it’s conducive to knowing and loving God whether it’s in a Charismatic group or a Traditionalist group. I just don’t like when emphasis is placed on it:
Melchior_1 said:
I was incredibly disappointed in these turn of events.
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Why? Why was it so important that “something happen.” Weren’t you there with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament? Why were you disappointed?
 
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Boler said:
Sounds like you’re approaching spirituality wrong.
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I think you’re mistaking my approach to spirituality back then for my approach to spirituality today.
Boler said:
Why? Why was it so important that “something happen.” Weren’t you there with our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament? Why were you disappointed?
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Good questions! These are actually questions that in the years that followed I have asked myself about what happened back then. Twenty nine years ago, I was a fifteen year old abuse survivor, who freshly returned to the Church after a radical conversion/“reversion” experience, with the seminar taking place less than three months after that moment. As a “baby Catholic” at the time, there was a combination of factors which led to my disappointment. One of them was simply expectations I suppose; at first it didn’t line up with what I was expecting going in.

If I were to partake in a Life in the Spirit Seminar today, my expectations would clearly be different. I’m older, wiser (at least I hope I am wiser!), and definitely with increased knowledge in multiple areas of the Catholic faith. As much as what I would like to learn everything in one event or a weekend, that simply isn’t the case. The concepts of being in a spiritual desert is something that came to understand later. The idea of Patron Saints and intercessory prayer was something I came to realize later as well, despite that when looking back in my life it’s clear that Saint Francis was watching out for me. I knew Mary was important, but knowing why she was important came later. I was pro-life before I was fifteen, but I didn’t understand the full ramifications of abortion and the like until later. It’s a growing process, a continued journey.

And of course, hindsight. There are things I learned then, but there;s also things I learned after. What happened at the seminar was but one step on my continued journey with Christ within the Catholic Church. The point of sharing the story in this fashion was to speak about the charisms of the Holy Spirit, and how the charisms impacted my life. And that one shouldn’t necessarily place expectations on the Lord - accept what He chooses to give you. I could certainly flesh the story out more to include more elements, such as having an emotional faith and the need for reason, or like you said speak about the possibility of being in a spiritual desert . But there’s a 3500 character limit, and I wanted to get a specific point across.
 
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John Paul Jackson . talks about the learning curve. And teaches on it’s application.
Yes being prophetic has a learning curve.

This is why saint Paul said 1cor 14. Let 2 or 3 prophecy and then judge And learn.
 
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