How Often Does This Happen To You?

[Bob_Aliano]

unfortunately it doesn’t happen here as we only have 1 church in the whole diocese that says 1 Latin Mass. we are about to change bishops in the near future and maybe that will change also.

Be careful of what you wish, you lose the one Mass you have.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

I agree with you about those Red (or Tan for the Latin-Spanish) missalettes. There are somewhat misleading as their readings are from one Sunday alone. The EF novice might have a tough time trying to connect those readings with the Mass. It’s more advisable to familiarize yourself with your own handmissal and use it the way it suits you best. Those ribbons are very useful too.

My point though was that in both the EF and OF the missals or missaletes can serve an important role in the ability to fully absorb the word of God. One shouldn’t just simply say “Blah, I hate having to look at those old missals” to try to prove the superiority of one rite.

I have a personal missal for the OF as well as my 1962 by Baronius Press. The lectors at our OF parish are generally pretty poor at reading the scripture so I do my own reading and at the weekday EF I need the translation, Sunday is not a problem since the priest does the lessons. The lectors either have been coached to pause every so many words or they just pause at weird places in sentences making the reading incomprehensible. I have nothing against the missalettes in the pews or narthex other than they are soiled and therefore must be germ infested, particularly during flu and cold season. In addition, as you said, those ribbons are very handy.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Actually it’s not that simple, because although most who prefer the OF can have their spiritual needs fuffilled at the nearest Catholic Church, those who preffer the EF isn’t always the case. Many times, including myself, we are looked down upon by our own parish priest and parishoners just for mentioning anything to have to do with Latin. So I am sorry, but it’s not as simple as that as you put it.

So…doing battle with people looking to understand and help…and snipping at people is going to help? Some people act…maybe not you…but some people…that if you prefer the OF you are a liberal Catholic…not the case. And I don’t see how this helps anything…does it not just dig everyone’s heels in?

 

[mytruepower2]

True. Just preferring the OF does not make you a “liberal Catholic,” though you will be hard pressed to find any “liberal Catholics” at an EF.

The really important thing, aside from the sacrament’s validity, is reverence for the Holy Mass. If reverence is shown for God at the Holy Mass, then it will be unlikely to shake your faith. Unfortunately, too many OFs are irreverent, and that nearly drove me into agnosticism once, despite being from a strong, Catholic family.

If you happen to be the kind of person who needs almost no encouragement in keeping the faith, you are a rare and blessed child of God. On the other hand, if you feel that the irreverence of others at Holy Mass challenges your own faith, locating a reverently-celebrated OF is a viable option, though almost as difficult as finding a parish that offers EFs.

 

[TimothyH]

Latin isn’t taught in Catholic school on a routine basis anymore, far fewer children attend Catholic schools.

For the record, Latin is taught in public high schools in suburban Cobb County, Georgia.

Also for the record, it is not taught at my daughter’s Catholic elementary and middle school.

-Tim-

 

[ProVobis]

For the record, Latin is taught in public high schools in suburban Cobb County, Georgia.

Also for the record, it is not taught at my daughter’s Catholic elementary and middle school.

I’m not surprised.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I know this will not be a popular post – but “facts is facts.”

The reason for the person’s reaction may be that he/she is one of the many, many, many, many, many, many, (majority) of Catholics who either successfully and happily made the transition to the vernacular Mass, grew up with the vernacular or converted after the change was made.

It appears from reading the posts on CAF that hundreds of thousands of American Catholics are clamoring for a return to this tranditional form of Mass – but that just isn’t the case, no matter how much people ON CAF claim it and/or complain about the OF.

You don’t get a clear picture of the “standard American liturgy” from reading this board.

I was blown away when I started reading this attitude on CAF and researched my own (very large and populous) state – the Latin Mass is offered in VERY FEW parishes statewide and there is NO public, active movement toward reverting to this form of worship as the norm.

I recognize that many people on CAF prefer the traditional Mass – but this board does NOT represent the views of the “average Catholic” by any means.

I grew up with the Latin Mass and recognize and revere its more sacred ambience – but there is NO way I would want to return to the days of having to read along in a missal during Mass instead of hearing the overwhelmingly powerful words of the Canon in my own language. I had 16 years of Catholic education and am as familiar with Latin as any lay person – but, along with the majority of American Catholics in 2010, I attend the vernacular Mass with joy. Latin isn’t taught in Catholic school on a routine basis anymore, far fewer children attend Catholic schools – and we’ve been out of the practice of hearing Latin at Mass or other services for over 40 years. Why anyone younger than I would prefer worshiping in an unfamiliar language, isolated from the community around him/her, is just beyond my understanding.

I am not denigrating people who are pro-Latin Mass and who post on CAF – just trying to give the OP a clearer picture in answer to the post.

I actually disagree with this. I happen to know several people who stopped going to the Catholic Church altogether because it no longer has the Latin Mass back in the 60’s and early 70’s some became Eastern Rite and some even Orthodox directly because of it. So if your point is - that those who regularly attend the OF arent clamoring for the EF thats probably true because they are attending the OF. However , Mass Attendance is down and parishes are closing or consolidating in so many once strong Catholic areas of the Country so for your argument to have merit you have to assume that the Parishes which are in most cases either stagnant or actually regressing in numbers (Which is especially true in Europe) - that a return to the EF (Even if not exclusive in many areas will NOT bolster Mass attendance ? Obviously not true. And shouldnt that be the goal?

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

True. Just preferring the OF does not make you a “liberal Catholic,” though you will be hard pressed to find any “liberal Catholics” at an EF.

The really important thing, aside from the sacrament’s validity, is reverence for the Holy Mass. If reverence is shown for God at the Holy Mass, then it will be unlikely to shake your faith. Unfortunately, too many OFs are irreverent, and that nearly drove me into agnosticism once, despite being from a strong, Catholic family.

If you happen to be the kind of person who needs almost no encouragement in keeping the faith, you are a rare and blessed child of God. On the other hand, if you feel that the irreverence of others at Holy Mass challenges your own faith, locating a reverently-celebrated OF is a viable option, though almost as difficult as finding a parish that offers EFs.

I’m lucky…I do find a reverent OF Mass at my local parish. I’m sorry that you were almost driven to agnosticism but happy to see you didn’t! I had sort of the opposite experience…regidity without love or explaination…not at an EF Mass because those are rare here. But from my grandmother…my whole large family is Catholic…but that rigidity with explaination, understanding, or love…drove me to Protestant land.

Now…having been there…I don’t need any encouragement to keep my faith…because I’ve been there. I know what I’m going to find out there isn’t reverent AT ALL! And there is no Eucharist.

I feel for those who live in rural areas and don’t have options. Although in my mind…better to have a Catholic Mass then nothing at all.

 

[Mary_Virginia]

About the traditional Latin Mass I have heard it once,one of my parish Priests "performed"it one Sunday. It was beautiful.But I am a new Catholic so I don’t think you really want my opinion on this,I believe unless everyone knows Latin then its not for the “edification” of the "whole congregation,"then that, in itself, is lacking…and I would be very “put off”-if that is how it would be done everywhere again. I am not sure what I would “do.”

Sincerly,M

 

[Ockham]

I know this will not be a popular post – but “facts is facts.”

The reason for the person’s reaction may be that he/she is one of the many, many, many, many, many, many, (majority) of Catholics who either successfully and happily made the transition to the vernacular Mass, grew up with the vernacular or converted after the change was made.

It appears from reading the posts on CAF that hundreds of thousands of American Catholics are clamoring for a return to this tranditional form of Mass – but that just isn’t the case, no matter how much people ON CAF claim it and/or complain about the OF.

It’s interesting when people claim something as fact with nothing other than their opinion as proof.

What are your thoughts on these surveys?

[GREAT BRITAIN]
“According to the survey, 43 per cent of those Catholics who practice regularly would attend Mass in the Extraordinary Form once a week. Fifty per cent of the Catholics questioned said that they would find it normal if Mass were celebrated in the Extraordinary Form alongside the Ordinary Form in their parishes. The survey also found that 60 per cent of Catholics were unaware of Pope Benedict XVI’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum which lifted restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass in 2007.”

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2010/09/03/poll-almost-half-of-mass-goers-would-attend-older-form/

[PORTUGAL}
Question #4: If Mass were celebrated with Latin and Gregorian chant in its extraordinary form in YOUR parish, without taking the place of the ordinary one in Portuguese, would you attend it? Answers from the regularly practicing (weekly and monthy) alone:

• 29.5% would attend weekly
• 24% once a month
• 14.2% for Holy Days
• 23.5% occasionally
• 8.8% never

http://www.paixliturgique.org.uk/aff_lettre.asp?LET_N_ID=582

[GERMANY]
Question # 4: If Mass were celebrated with Latin and Gregorian chant in its extraordinary form in YOUR parish, without taking the place of the ordinary one in German, would you attend it?

Answers from those who practice regularly (weekly and monthy)

• 25% would attend weekly
• 19% once a month
• 9% for Holy Days
• 40% occasionally
• 7% never

[ITALY]
3rd question: If Mass were celebrated in the Extraordinary Form in your parish, would you attend it?
63% of practicing Italians declare that they would attend it at least once a month (33% of all Catholics together). This number’s spread is: 40% weekly and 23% at least once a month.
As a reminder, in France (again according to the CSA poll of September 2008), 34% of practicing Catholics declared their wish to attend it at least once a month.

[USA]
Of those who actually attend Mass weekly, 33% support the TLM while 20% oppose.

cara.georgetown.edu/NewsandPress/PressReleases/pr082409.pdf

Based on these surveys, the claim that “many, many, many, many, many, many, (majority) of Catholics” are against the TLM is false. Do you have any information, studies, or, facts to prove otherwise?

 

[ProVobis]

About the traditional Latin Mass I have heard it once,one of my parish Priests "performed"it one Sunday. It was beautiful.But I am a new Catholic so I don’t think you really want my opinion on this,I believe **unless everyone knows Latin then its not for the “edification” of the “whole congregation,”**then that, in itself, is lacking…and I would be very “put off”-if that is how it would be done everywhere again. I am not sure what I would “do.”

(

Appreciate your post. But I just wanted to point out that everyone doesn’t know or understand the Mass in its translations either, yet the translations are supposed to be intrinsically superior?

 

[Ockham]

Appreciate your post. But I just wanted to point out that everyone doesn’t know or understand the Mass in its translations either, yet the translations are supposed to be intrinsically superior?

Very good point. Consider how significant the decline in belief in the Real Presence since the Novus Ordo became the norm or the drop in attendance in general. If we are to believe the propaganda the opposite should have occurred.

 

[Seamus_L]

This statement “The survey also found that 60 per cent of Catholics were unaware of Pope Benedict XVI’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum which lifted restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass in 2007.” regarding Great Britain is very telling. I suspect that the statistics for the USA, based on my own experiences, would be similar.
We need to do a much better job of getting the word out that the TLM is available, and where it is not we need to let the petitions pour in. The TLM is not some novelty, it is something that is essential to our spiritual welfare.

 

[Wildkit]

You meet someone who’s also Catholic, and as soon as you learn that, you ask them what parish they attend, and then they ask you, and you tell them you attend the TLM. Immediately they’re very surprised and say things like “I didn’t know the Latin Mass was still available” ?

                          It happened to me AGAIN, this weekend when I was talking to a woman who was a friend of some friends of mine. It really amazes me that we still have so many people out there who are unaware that the TLM is available. Maybe we need it on a billboard.

I have seen in my church bulletin where such and such a church has a TLM on certain Sundays and at a certain time. Great, but I’m satisfied where I am. Yet while I am no statistician, why would it be surprising to me if the number of people who knew there was a TLM in their diocese was substantially different than the number of TLM masses offered in their diocese compared to the total number of masses offered on any given Sunday?

We have it posted in our church bulletin. I don’t think you really mean that it needs to be posted on a billboard. So you find greater spirituality attending a TLM,….great! But again, somehow I just can’t find it too surprising to find that the number of active Catholics in your diocese who don’t know there is a Latin mass offered is substantially different than the percent of OF masses offered to total masses offered on any Sunday in your diocese.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[ProVobis]

This statement “The survey also found that 60 per cent of Catholics were unaware of Pope Benedict XVI’s Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum which lifted restrictions on the traditional Latin Mass in 2007.” regarding Great Britain is very telling. I suspect that the statistics for the USA, based on my own experiences, would be similar.

I am surprised it’s actually that high, if for no other reason, only 25% go to Church regularly, where they may stumble across this any meaningful information regarding this MP. Some of the non-Churchgoers seemed to have picked up this information as well and it is hoped that many of these will return to the Church. Let’s give it some time.