How "open to life" do we really have to be?

[bearkatjen]

My husband is a cradle catholic and I’m in the conversion process. Recently our marriage was convalidated, and I’m just starting to understand this whole “open to life” concept.

My husband and I have one child. It took us awhile to conceive, and the day I found out I was pregnant was one of the happiest days in my life. Our DS is a wonderful child and he brings us tremendous joy.

Last summer, I prayed to God about a second child, but after months of prayer, I found I had zero desire for more children. DH also has no desire for more children, but if I really wanted more, he would agree to having more (as long as I am in good health).

Currently, I’m not in good enough health to get pregnant. I was very overweight in my pregnancy with DS and had dangerous complications at the end that put my life in jeopardy. That said, I’m losing weight, and if I continue, I can certainly be healthy enough to conceive in another year or two.

Then there’s money. DH and I live modestly, but we have considerable student loan debt, and between student loan debt, saving up for DS’s college fund (nothing extravagant - 2 years of tuition at our local community college and 2 years of tuition a local state school), paying for catholic school for DS, and modestly saving for retirement (I hope we can both work till we are at least 70!), we can’t afford another child.

So, if DH and I have no desire for another child and finances are not really conducive to having another child, is it okay if we’re one and done? Obviously if we got pregnant on accident, we would welcome the child with open arms.

I know we would at minimum need to prevent through NFP. We currently prevent with condoms, which I know is a sin. I am okay moving to NFP (though reluctantly), DH is not okay with relying on NFP (and yes, he knows how it works). This is another sticky situation. We have a strong marriage, but I feel like pushing the NFP thing will cause problems in our relationship.

 

[Carlan]

We do not rationalize when it comes to Mortal sin. If you are Catholic you must be completely open to life. Hard yes but you’ve gotta deal with it. God makes the rules no matter what! Prayers and peace, Carlan

 

[1ke]

It sounds like you have discerned some current reasons to postpone pregnancy. What you are called to is continued discernment. Right now you say you are “done” but that is not really true. A year or two from now, you may be in a totally different circumstance. Being open to life means being open to reconsidering as your circumstances change and responding generously to God’s call, and to prayerfully discern what that call is.

I don’t think proclaiming you are “done” is really the best way to continually discern. You are closing off the future possibilities.

As to contraception, you know it is gravely wrong and therefore need to discontinue it. Talk to your priest.

 

[bearkatjen]

We do not rationalize when it comes to Mortal sin. If you are Catholic you must be completely open to life. Hard yes but you’ve gotta deal with it. God makes the rules no matter what! Prayers and peace, Carlan

I’m not sure if you’re referring to everything I’ve posted or just the last bit on currently using condoms.

If I agree to use NFP, but my husband insists on using condoms, then where does that leave us?

Say my husband agrees to NFP, and we stick with that, are we justified in holding off on additional children because of the finances I described? I mean obviously people can live without catholic school and college savings, but with only one child we can afford them, with more children we can’t. We want to provide these things, and we have no desire for more children, so it that okay?

 

[TeenageConvert]

Well first of all, the end does not justify the means.Ever. And I know it’s easier said than done, but just keep Psalm 46:10 in mind, “be still, and know that I am God”. He knows best, if you really couldn’t handle another child, God would not allow you to have one. And I could be totally wrong in this, but if it’s your husband that refuses to stop using condoms, then the mortal sin is on him, not you because you’re not fully willing

 

[SonCatcher]

Generally, we need to prayerfully consider the current situation (as we cannot make assumptions on the future). It is not my goal to refute any valid reasons you have in choosing your family size. I hope merely to help you understand how to weigh the issues on your own so you can make the best informed decisions. Regarding the situations you have described:

This first one is perhaps the most difficult. “Desiring” another child or not is not really a consideration when discerning whether to be open to a new child. Our emotions are all over the place and it is possible to go from intense desire for a child to intense desire to not have a child and back again in only a few days. Instead, we should look to the “hard facts” when discerning openness to life. You have described some such things, as well, which is quite good.

Health is probably the most important factor to consider. You mention that your current health situation would likely make your pregnancy more difficult. That is an important consideration since your health affects not only you but your family as well. while it is impossible to guarantee a healthy pregnancy, even for women in ideal fitness at the beginning, it is acceptable to use your assessment of your current health and the potential for complications related to it in making your decision.

Finances are a bit more complex, since they necessarily include future planning. It looks like you aren’t forgoing children in favor of extravagant living (luxurious vacations, home, cars, etc) nor are you struggling just to meet basic expenses. Keep in mind that your financial obligations are to your family’s current needs, a “rainy day” fund and savings to maintain your lifestyle in retirement. Saving for your child’s college education, while a good thing to do, is not among your financial obligations (my parents initially opened a college saving account for me and had to close it when my dad went back to school - it was more necessary to meet then-current family needs).

As for your husband’s objection to NFP, it is unfortunate. More than the mechanics of it, has he learned the reasoning behind the Church’s teaching on the body?

Christopher West has been teaching Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body for some time. His books and talks are frequently a starting point for understanding why we should only use our sexuality in moral ways. Good News About Sex and Marriage is his book that answers a lot of questions in a Q&A format. Naked Without Shame is a series of talks wherein he distills John Paul’s Theology of the Body in only a few hours. It is available in CD ($5 for 10 disks) or (“The Gift Foundation Free Download Website”) (free).

HTH

 

[SonCatcher]

I’m not sure if you’re referring to everything I’ve posted or just the last bit on currently using condoms.

If I agree to use NFP, but my husband insists on using condoms, then where does that leave us?

Say my husband agrees to NFP, and we stick with that, are we justified in holding off on additional children because of the finances I described? I mean obviously people can live without catholic school and college savings, but with only one child we can afford them, with more children we can’t. We want to provide these things, and we have no desire for more children, so it that okay?

You only need to remind him that it is mortally sinful. If he insists on using condoms despite your objections, the sin is his alone. He cannot force you to use pills, diaphragms, IUDs, etc. If you allowed any of these, however, you would share in the sin.

 

[Carlan]

I’m not sure if you’re referring to everything I’ve posted or just the last bit on currently using condoms.

If I agree to use NFP, but my husband insists on using condoms, then where does that leave us?

Say my husband agrees to NFP, and we stick with that, are we justified in holding off on additional children because of the finances I described? I mean obviously people can live without catholic school and college savings, but with only one child we can afford them, with more children we can’t. We want to provide these things, and we have no desire for more children, so it that okay?

Bear katjen, If you are seeking to do God’s will in your life, and I believe you are, perhaps the best I can suggest, in your circumstance and feelings expressed, is that you begin to pray, to beg the Father to give you the gift of trusting in Him to be with you from now on through this journey you are beginning, no matter what the future holds, whether it be more children for him or more or less finances or other difficulties you perceive could happen,and life is apt to dish up.God bless your family at this time in your life, Peace, Carlan

 

[bearkatjen]

Saving for your child’s college education, while a good thing to do, is not among your financial obligations (my parents initially opened a college saving account for me and had to close it when my dad went back to school - it was more necessary to meet then-current family needs).

HTH

My parents and in-laws could not afford college, and as a result, DH and I have a lot of student loans (thankfully we are eligible to have most of our loans forgiven in 10 years). I know not all parents can afford to fund college, but I think if one has the ability to, then they have a moral obligation to. In the past, you could get a good job with just a high school diploma, but nowadays, you need a 4 year degree or a vocational degree for any decent job out there. I would love it if my son became a priest, but what happens if he has that calling and he’s burdened down with student loan debt? My husband and I do not want our son to take out student loans. We will urge him to work hard in school, teach him how to research and apply for scholarship and grant opportunities, and teach him to work and save his money for his education as well, but even a basic public college education is looking to be crazy expensive in the future.

 

[ajaffres]

There is a really good book on the topic called The Theology of the Body. I was able to get it at the library. We just had our marriage con validated too. Asking how open to life do we really need to be is like asking how faithful do we really need to be to our spouse? Those are both part of our wedding vows. Contraception creates a barrier in your vows while NFP allows you to use abstinence at the right time. Vatican II also calls us to “Responsible Parenthood”, which means it is okay to space children, as long as you do not use any contraception which includes “interruptus coitus”.

 

[ajaffres]

Christopher West has been teaching Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body for some time. His books and talks are frequently a starting point for understanding why we should only use our sexuality in moral ways. Good News About Sex and Marriage is his book that answers a lot of questions in a Q&A format. Naked Without Shame is a series of talks wherein he distills John Paul’s Theology of the Body in only a few hours. It is available in CD ($5 for 10 disks) or (“The Gift Foundation Free Download Website”) (free).

That is the name I was looking for, thanks. I love his books. Pray, it is not easy, my husband is Protestant and doesn’t always understand. While we hope to provide for our 3 boys’ education, God only knows what the future will hold. We have to trust in God’s will and providence. Having a career and money is important, but the most important thing for our boys is that they grow up learning about the love of God and to bring them closer to Him. I have now been homeschooling them for that purpose, hence sacrificing the 2nd income since we cannot afford Catholic Schools in our area.

 

[SonCatcher]

My parents and in-laws could not afford college, and as a result, DH and I have a lot of student loans (thankfully we are eligible to have most of our loans forgiven in 10 years). I know not all parents can afford to fund college, but I think if one has the ability to, then they have a moral obligation to. In the past, you could get a good job with just a high school diploma, but nowadays, you need a 4 year degree or a vocational degree for any decent job out there. I would love it if my son became a priest, but what happens if he has that calling and he’s burdened down with student loan debt? My husband and I do not want our son to take out student loans. We will urge him to work hard in school, teach him how to research and apply for scholarship and grant opportunities, and teach him to work and save his money for his education as well, but even a basic public college education is looking to be crazy expensive in the future.

I am aware of the challenges of paying for higher education and agree that student loans are to be avoided, if possible. I also know that it is possible to obtain it without going deeply into debt (sorry for your situation). I worked a regular job and paid for junior college out-of-pocket while paying down loans accumulated from an expensive, out-of-state school (see, I had them, too).

When I finished my associates’ degree, I had also paid off the loans and picked up a student job that paid better than previously. I then transferred to a low-cost in-state university where I was able to pay all my expenses out-of-pocket while working 24 hours/wk during the term and 40 hours/wk between terms. During this time, I only earned marginally more than minimum wage.

 

[SonCatcher]

That is the name I was looking for, thanks. I love his books. Pray, it is not easy, my husband is Protestant and doesn’t always understand. While we hope to provide for our 3 boys’ education, God only knows what the future will hold. We have to trust in God’s will and providence. Having a career and money is important, but the most important thing for our boys is that they grow up learning about the love of God and to bring them closer to Him. I have now been homeschooling them for that purpose, hence sacrificing the 2nd income since we cannot afford Catholic Schools in our area.

We also homeschool. However, for us it isn’t quite because we can’t afford Catholic school (though our budget is certainly more comfortable without it). Rather, it is more because we decided that sending them to a Catholic school wasn’t necessarily going to make them Catholic more than public school. These days, Catholic schools tend to be more focused on academics than Catholicity.

 

[ajaffres]

Yes I read that one must be very careful about schools that carry a label. Here Catholic Schools are 12K per year per child and there is only one.
Our parish has been very supportive and allows me to borrow what I want from their library. I have started to attend some daily Masses and hope that once the boys celebrate their first communion that we can start attending daily Mass as a family.
I am well educated and gave up a good income to homeschool, know who my kids see and what they do. Money is always secondary, they will print more next year.

 

[Calvin_Hobbs]

One child policy was fine for Mary and Joseph, the rest of us are to be fruitful and multiply. Life is not fair get used to it. I feel sorry for Joseph for I too know what is like trying to live with perfect people!!

Semper Fidelis
Bruce

 

[Castello]

I’m not sure if you’re referring to everything I’ve posted or just the last bit on currently using condoms.

If I agree to use NFP, but my husband insists on using condoms, then where does that leave us?

Say my husband agrees to NFP, and we stick with that, are we justified in holding off on additional children because of the finances I described? I mean obviously people can live without catholic school and college savings, but with only one child we can afford them, with more children we can’t. We want to provide these things, and we have no desire for more children, so it that okay?

You know what, God actually blesses people who follow Him. Amazing to think that God can permit you to afford many things…

 

[bearkatjen]

Homeschooling is definitely out. We can’t survive on one income, and I am so not interested in homeschooling anyway. I think it’s nice that Catholic schools bring Catholicism into the classroom, but I think the emphasis in the classroom should be on academics, so I’m not worried about there not being enough religion in my child’s school.

I have trouble understanding why it would be God’s will for me to have more children if I have no desire for them. Wouldn’t he put that desire in my heart? What is in my heart, is that it feels immoral to purposely conceive a child you don’t want, and it feels irresponsible to not actively prevent if you can’t afford additional children. Affordability means different things to different people of course. I will say that I know people who have more children than they can afford, so I don’t blindly buy into the idea that if God allows it, then God provides. God provides us with brains and reasoning skills. God provides us with prayer, so we can reflect and make sure we make the decisions he wants for us.

This is a really tough subject for me. I have agreed with everything that the church teaches, except for this. I have not talked to my priest about this, because it’s such an intimate topic. I’m going to have my first communion and confirmation this year, which means I start attending reconciliation. I don’t feel sorry for not wanting more children, and not having more or planning to have more, but if the church feels like I’m doing something wrong, well then that puts me in an uncomfortable position.

I will continue to pray about being “open to life”, and I will check out a copy of Theology of the Body (people at church have recommended this book as well). I appreciate everyone’s comments. Thank you!

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Homeschooling is definitely out. We can’t survive on one income, and I am so not interested in homeschooling anyway. I think it’s nice that Catholic schools bring Catholicism into the classroom, but I think the emphasis in the classroom should be on academics, so I’m not worried about there not being enough religion in my child’s school.

I have trouble understanding why it would be God’s will for me to have more children if I have no desire for them. Wouldn’t he put that desire in my heart? What is in my heart, is that it feels immoral to purposely conceive a child you don’t want, and it feels irresponsible to not actively prevent if you can’t afford additional children. Affordability means different things to different people of course. I will say that I know people who have more children than they can afford, so I don’t blindly buy into the idea that if God allows it, then God provides. God provides us with brains and reasoning skills. God provides us with prayer, so we can reflect and make sure we make the decisions he wants for us.

This is a really tough subject for me. I have agreed with everything that the church teaches, except for this. I have not talked to my priest about this, because it’s such an intimate topic. I’m going to have my first communion and confirmation this year, which means I start attending reconciliation. I don’t feel sorry for not wanting more children, and not having more or planning to have more, but if the church feels like I’m doing something wrong, well then that puts me in an uncomfortable position.

I will continue to pray about being “open to life”, and I will check out a copy of Theology of the Body (people at church have recommended this book as well). I appreciate everyone’s comments. Thank you!

My DH an I contracepted in the beginning of the marriage. He wanted to give it up I guess about a year until we actually did give it up. I was a bit afraid of losing control. I finally did give it up, and went to confession for the first time in years.

Right now you don’t want more children. You don’t know about next year or even 6 months from now. 1 step at a time. Get closer to God through the Church and see what His will is for you. If your heart is open to Him, He will guide you.

 

[SummerSmiles]

Homeschooling is definitely out. We can’t survive on one income, and I am so not interested in homeschooling anyway. I think it’s nice that Catholic schools bring Catholicism into the classroom, but I think the emphasis in the classroom should be on academics, so I’m not worried about there not being enough religion in my child’s school.

I have trouble understanding why it would be God’s will for me to have more children if I have no desire for them. Wouldn’t he put that desire in my heart? What is in my heart, is that it feels immoral to purposely conceive a child you don’t want, and it feels irresponsible to not actively prevent if you can’t afford additional children. Affordability means different things to different people of course. I will say that I know people who have more children than they can afford, so I don’t blindly buy into the idea that if God allows it, then God provides. God provides us with brains and reasoning skills. God provides us with prayer, so we can reflect and make sure we make the decisions he wants for us.

This is a really tough subject for me. I have agreed with everything that the church teaches, except for this. I have not talked to my priest about this, because it’s such an intimate topic. I’m going to have my first communion and confirmation this year, which means I start attending reconciliation. I don’t feel sorry for not wanting more children, and not having more or planning to have more, but if the church feels like I’m doing something wrong, well then that puts me in an uncomfortable position.

I will continue to pray about being “open to life”, and I will check out a copy of Theology of the Body (people at church have recommended this book as well). I appreciate everyone’s comments. Thank you!

It seems like for right now you’ve discerned that now is not the right time to have another child. That is fine. The beautiful thing about NFP is that it calls couples to continually determine whether or not they want/can handle another child. As time goes by, you will both be able to weigh your reasons for not wanting another child right now with your desire for sexual intimacy. If you find that your reasons are indeed serious, then the periodic abstinence will be much easier than if you’re just putting it off for not so serious reasons.

I understand how scary it can be to first start NFP, especially when you feel like you’re not ready for another child right now. Read books and find yourself an instructor who can help you to learn. As a woman, I find it extremely empowering to know so much about how my body is working.

You don’t have to answer here, but why doesn’t your husband want to do NFP? Is he still unsure of it’s reliability, or is he unsure of the periodic abstinence? Because for my husband, he really struggled at first with the abstinence portion. It does take some time to “re-teach” your brain how to view marital sex, and learn how to accept the times when you won’t be able to share that. Hopefully reading through Theology of the Body will help you gain some understanding in that area; NFP isn’t just about learning a new method of birth control, it’s about getting a whole new outlook on sex. NFP has actually strengthened the bond between my husband and myself, much more than either one of us expected.

Trust in God. Trust that He knows what He is doing. Trust that He gave us these “rules” about sex for a reason, because He wants what is best for us. Do things one step at a time; start by learning NFP to avoid, and then see where God leads you after that. Don’t worry about whether or not you will want another child 5 years (or even one!) from now. Just focus on what you need to do right now.

 

[bearkatjen]

I understand how scary it can be to first start NFP, especially when you feel like you’re not ready for another child right now. Read books and find yourself an instructor who can help you to learn. As a woman, I find it extremely empowering to know so much about how my body is working.

You don’t have to answer here, but why doesn’t your husband want to do NFP? Is he still unsure of it’s reliability, or is he unsure of the periodic abstinence? Because for my husband, he really struggled at first with the abstinence portion. It does take some time to “re-teach” your brain how to view marital sex, and learn how to accept the times when you won’t be able to share that. Hopefully reading through Theology of the Body will help you gain some understanding in that area; NFP isn’t just about learning a new method of birth control, it’s about getting a whole new outlook on sex. NFP has actually strengthened the bond between my husband and myself, much more than either one of us expected.

We are both familiar with NFP, and we used it when we were having trouble conceiving our son. I do like how NFP really lets a woman known what’s going on with her body, but I don’t like that everything is on me, that I have to be so structured on when I wake up so I can get an accurate temperature, and (TMI) I also dislike the feel of semen in me (it burns a bit, and the degree of wetness is just gross and messy so instead of cuddling or talking, I have to jump in the shower immediately). I think DH worries we will mess it up, and surprise, have a baby we are not ready for. As for abstinence, this is a lot easier for DH than me. I usually instigate, and honestly, when I most want to be intimate is when I’m fertile.

When we do talk about another child, DH talks about adoption. I think more than anything, DH is scared of going through another pregnancy with me again. As hard as we tried for a baby, and as excited as we were to be blessed with our son, I hated every day of my pregnancy. I was an emotional mess, I hurt everyday, I was utterly useless, and then I had complications at the end that really scared DH.