How Relevant Is Our Lady Of Fatima Today ?

[He_Man]

Whoops, NO masses mostly growing up, TLM the past 3 years.

Either way, our homilies generally stink.

 

[TMC]

Our Lady of Fatima said Russia would spread her errors, and she has. The Holy Father is addressing the spread of atheism and linking it to the problems in the world today with Karl Marx. This is very unusual for a post-Vatican II pope to make such a statement. I am sure he will receive some sort of backlash from within the Vatican for saying what he did. The message of Fatima is very relevent.

I’m not sure what you mean by this? Benedict is one of only three post-Vatican II Popes, and one was only Pope for a month, so that just leaves John Paul II. John Paul has pretty strong anti-communist credentials, don’t you think?

 

[TMC]

I don’t hear homilies on Fatima much, can’t remember the last one but its been years at least. But that has nothing to do with the topics, importance, or value of the homilies I do get. Fatima speaks more to some people than others. Fatima did not change anything in the Church’s teachings and there is nothing there that is theologically unique such that it must be regularly presented t the faithful. The fact that some communities don’t focus on it doesn’t really mean anything. I agree that some of the other apparitions are discussed more in the US, but I don’t think it is vital that any of them be featured in homilies.

 

[He_Man]

I don’t hear homilies on Fatima much, can’t remember the last one but its been years at least. But that has nothing to do with the topics, importance, or value of the homilies I do get. Fatima speaks more to some people than others. Fatima did not change anything in the Church’s teachings and there is nothing there that is theologically unique such that it must be regularly presented t the faithful. The fact that some communities don’t focus on it doesn’t really mean anything. I agree that some of the other apparitions are discussed more in the US, but I don’t think it is vital that any of them be featured in homilies.

I’d say that is more fair than saying it is an irrelevant message.

 

[Seamus_L]

OLF became a very popular devotion in the 1950’s and at the height of the Cold War, it was a bastion of hope for many refugees of Communism from Eastern Europe. Even long before the breakup of the Soviet Union though, the Blessed Mother’s uncompromisingly anti-communist message made liberation theologians and quasi-Marxist priests uncomfortable. And of course today as we live in an age of indulgence perhaps never known to mankind, visions of hell, sacrifices, penance, and saying the rosary daily are things many people within the Catholic Church want no part of.
To me it's as relevant as it was in 1917, as "Russia's errors" are still with us under different names. How long before the EU begins the persecution of Christians or before America bans any public display of the Faith ?

 

[He_Man]

Plus, though the USSR is gone, but Russia is not. If anyone thinks Russia doesn’t still want to drive a stake through America’s hearts, that they aren’t funding Iran, or that Putin isn’t a slimey evil guy, they are wrong.

Though admittedly I have never met Vladimir…

 

[Seamus_L]

I’ve heard many positive things about Russia in the last few years. Putin is supposedly a practicing Orthodox Christian, and he openly supports the Christian population of Kosovo, while President Bush has openly sided with the Moslem majority.
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Russia as reverting back to communism, if anything they appear to be moving more in a nationalist direction. Any tensions between the US and Russia could be easily soothed by our staying out of there spheres of influence. The Russian people don't like American missile bases near there borders any more than we liked having there bases in Cuba.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I live across the street from a Novus Ordo parish. I would give the former pastor info on the effects of sin, literature against the Pill, etc. to give to his parishoners. He flat out told me he would have a riot and no one would come to mass anymore if he preached on sin. Here’s the kicker, when I talked one on one with him, he was VERY orthodox and knew his faith quite well, he was just afraid to preach it.

I don’t know, I believe if he preached on the message of Fatima, his Church would have been full. Our Lady would have showered his parish with many graces and the people would start coming back to the confessional and sinned less.

I wonder how he will explain that reluctance to God? He holds the Divine Office of priest, and has charge of many souls…

 

[marymonde]

It is still relevant, as is the Devotion the Five First Saturdays.

Have the things below stopped , IE; the mockery of the mother of Jesus, I don’t think so, has abortion stopped ?

And it was Russia that legalized abortion in 1921.

.

I agree it is relevent. It was asked rhetorically in response to the previous post.

Btw…I agree with all your points.

 

[marymonde]

I’m not sure what you mean by this? Benedict is one of only three post-Vatican II Popes, and one was only Pope for a month, so that just leaves John Paul II. John Paul has pretty strong anti-communist credentials, don’t you think?

The hierarchy of the Church took a stance after Vatican II not to condemn or point any fingers accusing the communists of the problems of the world today. If you like you can look at the Pact of Metz articles googled.

google.com/search?hl=en&q=pact+of+metz

I don’t want to get off topic here, but we can start a new thread if you like. While I believe this pertains to the relevence of Fatima, I know where the conversation will lead, very heated. I am one who doesn’t think communism is dead. It just took on a different name, and it’s gaining more momentum as the years go by. Just look at the stupid laws this country is making to take away more and more of our way of life. Russia has spread so many errors, it’s hard to take them all into account.

 

[water]

What is a traditional Catholic parish?

There isn’t any parish who doesn’t have devotion to Our Lday of Fatima. Every time, we pray the Rosary, we have this prayer:

“Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of Your mercy.”

 

[marymonde]

I’ve heard many positive things about Russia in the last few years. Putin is supposedly a practicing Orthodox Christian, and he openly supports the Christian population of Kosovo, while President Bush has openly sided with the Moslem majority.

                 Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I don't see Russia as reverting back to communism, if anything they appear to be moving more in a nationalist direction. Any tensions between the US and Russia could be easily soothed by our staying out of there spheres of influence. The Russian people don't like American missile bases near there borders any more than we liked having there bases in Cuba.

Russian Orthodox is not Roman Catholic. RO are in schism. Putin is an ex-KGB agent who is currently so popular that the citizens of Russia are in favor of changing their constitution to give him unlimited power. And there is the little thing where there is talk on resurrecting the old soviet flag.

Look up Anatoly Golitsyn. He was an ex-KGB agent who wrote a detailed account on what Russia would do to make communism look like it was dead, only for the planning to spread it throughout the world when our defenses would be down.

Here is a snippet of what Senator McCain surmised about Mr. Putin. Read what the liberal politicians are saying about this man as well…

rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/11/EAFD03C1-F718-4520-B1E3-B7283AD0BDC7.html

Arizona Senator John McCain (Republican) has suggested that Russia should be barred from the Group of Eight (G8) leading industrial nations because of its "diminishing political freedoms" and “efforts to bully democratic neighbors, such as Georgia.” Of Russian President Vladimir Putin, McCain said: “This is a dangerous person. And he has to understand that there’s a cost to some of his actions.” Alluding to U.S. President George W. Bush’s 2001 comment that he had “looked into Putin’s soul,”** McCain said, “I looked into Mr. Putin’s eyes and I saw three things – a K and a G and a B.”**

 

[TMC]

The hierarchy of the Church took a stance after Vatican II not to condemn or point any fingers accusing the communists of the problems of the world today. If you like you can look at the Pact of Metz articles googled.

google.com/search?hl=en&q=pact+of+metz

I don’t want to get off topic here, but we can start a new thread if you like. While I believe this pertains to the relevence of Fatima, I know where the conversation will lead, very heated. I am one who doesn’t think communism is dead. It just took on a different name, and it’s gaining more momentum as the years go by. Just look at the stupid laws this country is making to take away more and more of our way of life. Russia has spread so many errors, it’s hard to take them all into account.

I find this “Pact of Metz” stuff very sketchy. I took a quick look around and could only find references to it on a couple of sites that are very critical (to be charitable) of the Church. Even if this “Pact” took place, the allegation is that is was a quid pro quo to get the Russians to VII that would not have meant anything years later. And I cannot believe that Karol Wojtyla, who spent his life fighting communism, would have agreed to continue such a “pact” if one existed.

 

[snowfly]

I agree it is relevent. It was asked rhetorically in response to the previous post.

Btw…I agree with all your points.

Yes I know grrrrr ! and He Man picked up on it, I forgive you. when things come out wrong just give a little…

 

[Marina14]

What is a traditional Catholic parish?

There isn’t any parish who doesn’t have devotion to Our Lday of Fatima. Every time, we pray the Rosary, we have this prayer:

“Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of Your mercy.”

Remember though that not all Catholic Churches pray the Rosary. For example, you will not find one that does in Central, VA nor on the Central Coast of CA.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I agree with you. If the message of Fatima and the tradtional teachings of the Church were talked about in the homilies { or sermons I would hope] and not so much on scripture the Churches would be full for Sunday Mass as well as the confessional for those that seem to miss Mass every other Sunday yet go to communion.
That is why the sermons at the Traditional Mass are so different. The priest is not “tied” to the Gospel reading of the day. He can actually “instruct” the faithful which is his duty as pastor.

??? Scripture and Tradition are what the Church is built on! Fatima didn’t occur until 1916, nearly 2000 years after Christ. What did the Church do for the previous 1916 years? Fatima is a private revelation. Our Church is not built on private revelations, but on the public revelation of Jesus Christ.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe in the message of Fatima, I say my Rosary, I say the Fatima Prayer, I think the message is very relevant, but NEVER should a private revelation take the place of God’s Holy Word in the Scriptures! NEVER!

 

[water]

Remember though that not all Catholic Churches pray the Rosary. For example, you will not find one that does in Central, VA nor on the Central Coast of CA.

I didn’t know about this - but how did you know this though?

 

[stmaria]

??? Scripture and Tradition are what the Church is built on! Fatima didn’t occur until 1916, nearly 2000 years after Christ. What did the Church do for the previous 1916 years? Fatima is a private revelation. Our Church is not built on private revelations, but on the public revelation of Jesus Christ.

Don’t get me wrong, I believe in the message of Fatima, I say my Rosary, I say the Fatima Prayer, I think the message is very relevant,

but NEVER should a private revelation take the place of God’s Holy Word in the Scriptures! NEVER!

Who said anything about Fatima taking the place of scripture? The Fatima anniversary comes once a year. Would it hurt to use that occasion for the priest to explain why praying the rosary is important, a short talk on the vision of hell? Basing a homily on scripture is fine but please instruct the faith. The priest has a captive audience. Countless homilies on how God loves all of us soon becomes stale. A homily on the fires of hell now and then is a good thing.

 

[stmaria]

I find this “Pact of Metz” stuff very sketchy. I took a quick look around and could only find references to it on a couple of sites that are very critical (to be charitable) of the Church. Even if this “Pact” took place, the allegation is that is was a quid pro quo to get the Russians to VII that would not have meant anything years later. And I cannot believe that Karol Wojtyla, who spent his life fighting communism, would have agreed to continue such a “pact” if one existed.

The Pact of Metz is factual. According to the agreement there would be no condemnation of Communism at Vatican II even though it had been condemned numerous times by the Magisterium.
The Vatican II Council made statements on capitalism and colonialism, said nothing specific about Communism which at the time of the Council was the greatest evil in the world.
You may not like this site but it has an accurate account of what happened
traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a007ht.htm

In the book *The Rhine flows into the Tiber *the author, Father Ralph Wiltgen who was at the Council, wrote that over 450 Council Fathers signed an intervention to force the Vatican II document *The Church in the Modern World *to address communism. The story ran on the front page in Rome’s three largest newspapers.
The intervention failed and communism was not addressed. Even the word “communism” was left completely out of Gaudium Et Spies The Church in the Modern World. The best that Archbishop Lefebvre, who represented the 450 fathers that signed the intervention, could do was to get Pope Paul to insert footnote # 16 that cited the encyclicals of Pius XI, Pius XII. John XXXIII and Paul VI that addressed communism by name.

PASTORAL CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH IN THE MODERN WORLD
GAUDIUM ET SPES
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html

1. In her loyal devotion to God and men, the Church has already repudiated (16) and cannot cease repudiating, sorrowfully but as firmly as possible, those poisonous doctrines and actions which contradict reason and the common experience of humanity, and dethrone man from his native excellence.

Thanks to the Pact of Metz that is how Vatican II condemned communism. Only one line.

 

[marymonde]

Whether one believes the Pact of Metz is factual or not, it is a fact communism, the poison on society it is, has not been condemned since Vatican II. If you believe communism is dead, then you’ll have a difficult time understanding that the wall coming down was a ploy to make us all fall asleep and become unguarded. Russia will one day prove to be the scourge of the world…but they WILL convert to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, perhaps before this country. I have complete faith in Our Lady this will be so.

***When asked if Russia will be converted to the Catholic Faith, as Our Lady of Fatima promised, through Sr. Lucia Santos, Padre says that it will be, and suddenly, to the surprise of many. But then he adds: and Russia will give American a good example of what it means to convert. And then he promises that the U.S.A. will also convert to the Catholic Faith, but he adds that the process will be slow, but eventually.

franciscan-archive.org/padrepio/ppam-review.html***