How Reliable are Muhammad's Writers of the Quran?

[hlgomez]

1. Are they holy people and know who God is?
2. Did they have gifts of discernment to distinguish that what they were receiving from Muhammad’s recitations were actually coming from God?
3. How did they come to the conclusion that the recitations were truly from God when they started writing them?
4. Do they have the gift of infallibility that what they wrote contained no error?
5. Who validated their writings since Muhammad himself cannot read them?
6. How would Muhammad know that what they were writing were true to what he was saying?

And many more questions if you may add…

Pio

 

[meedo]

Brief History of Compilation of the Qur’an
Adapted from an article in Perspectives, Vol 3, No. 4, Aug/Sept 1997​

**
During the life of the Prophet (saas) (570-632 CE) **

The Prophet (saas) used to recite the Qur’an before angel Jibreel (Gabriel) once every Ramadan, but he recited it twice (in the same order we have today) in the last Ramadan before his death. Jibreel also taught the Prophet (saas) the seven modes of recitation.

Each verse received was recited by the Prophet, and its location relative to other verses and surahs was identified by him.

The verses were written by scribes, selected by the Prophet, on any suitable object - the leaves of trees, pieces of wood, parchment or leather, flat stones, and shoulder blades. Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu’awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka’ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit.

Some of the companions wrote the Qur’an for their own use.

Several hundred companions memorized the Qur’an by heart.

**During the caliphate of Abu Bakr (632-634 CE) **

Umar Ibn Al-Khattab urged Abu Bakr to preserve and compile the Qur’an. This was prompted after the battle of Yamamah, where heavy casualties were suffered among the reciters who memorized the Qur’an.

Abu Bakr entrusted Zayed Ibn Thabit with the task of collecting the Qur’an. Zayed had been present during the last recitation of the Qur’an by the Prophet to Angel Jibreel (Gabriel).

Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur’an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur’an. The copy was kept in the residence of Hafsah, daughter of Umar and wife of the Prophet.

**
During the caliphate of Uthman (644-656 CE) **

Uthman ordered Zayed Ibn Thabit, Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, and Abdur-Rahman Ibn Harith Ibn Hisham to make perfect copies of the authenticated copy kept with Hafsa. This was due to the rapid expansion of the Islamic state and concern about differences in recitation.

Copies were sent to various places in the Muslim world. The original copy was returned to Hafsa, and a copy was kept in Madinah.

 

[meedo]

“1. Are they holy people and know who God is?”

There is nothing called Holy people in our faith. We have true believers and not holy people. Yes they knwo who God is .

“2. Did they have gifts of discernment to distinguish that what they were receiving from Muhammad’s recitations were actually coming from God?”

Yes , they had .

“3. How did they come to the conclusion that the recitations were truly from God when they started writing them?”

I guess its a matter of belief.You wanna hear the story of reversion of each of them?!

“4. Do they have the gift of infallibility that what they wrote contained no error?”

There is no infaliable people . But things are correct when you exert enough effort .

““5. Who validated their writings since Muhammad himself cannot read them?””

They validate each other , Plus they already would read to the Prophet what they memmorize or write when he was alive .

““6. How would Muhammad know that what they were writing were true to what he was saying?””

I guess if they are willing to die for him , they wont lie about him. Plus, what is the reason for them to lie ? If you are erroneous in one Voul of the Quran you are not considered reliable at all. Yes to that extent !!!

Please ask whatever questions you have

 

[meedo]

iad.org/Quran/recording.html

Also this site can be helpful.

Peace

 

[hawk]

meedo:

Brief History of Compilation of the Qur’an
Adapted from an article in Perspectives, Vol 3, No. 4, Aug/Sept 1997​

**
During the life of the Prophet (saas) (570-632 CE) **

The Prophet (saas) used to recite the Qur’an before angel Jibreel (Gabriel) once every Ramadan, but he recited it twice (in the same order we have today) in the last Ramadan before his death. Jibreel also taught the Prophet (saas) the seven modes of recitation.

Each verse received was recited by the Prophet, and its location relative to other verses and surahs was identified by him.

The verses were written by scribes, selected by the Prophet, on any suitable object - the leaves of trees, pieces of wood, parchment or leather, flat stones, and shoulder blades. Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu’awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka’ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit.

Some of the companions wrote the Qur’an for their own use.

Several hundred companions memorized the Qur’an by heart.

Wishful thinking

**During the caliphate of Abu Bakr (632-634 CE) **

Umar Ibn Al-Khattab urged Abu Bakr to preserve and compile the Qur’an. This was prompted after the battle of Yamamah, where heavy casualties were suffered among the reciters who memorized the Qur’an.

Abu Bakr entrusted Zayed Ibn Thabit with the task of collecting the Qur’an. Zayed had been present during the last recitation of the Qur’an by the Prophet to Angel Jibreel (Gabriel).

Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur’an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur’an. The copy was kept in the residence of Hafsah, daughter of Umar and wife of the Prophet.

Lies, and this person who made this story is not familiar with the ahadith collections of bukhari or muslim

**
During the caliphate of Uthman (644-656 CE) **

Uthman ordered Zayed Ibn Thabit, Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, and Abdur-Rahman Ibn Harith Ibn Hisham to make perfect copies of the authenticated copy kept with Hafsa. This was due to the rapid expansion of the Islamic state and concern about differences in recitation.

Copies were sent to various places in the Muslim world. The original copy was returned to Hafsa, and a copy was kept in Madinah.

I dont think I have anything to say about this.

 

[r.gonzales]

hawk:

this person who made this story is not familiar with the ahadith collections of bukhari or muslim

as if you are

 

[hawk]

r.gonzales:

as if you are

Im not, since to me spitting thrice on my left has nothing to do with seeking refuge with God.

Or for that matter sitting down and peeing or entering the toilet with my left foot first is just plain nonsense.

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3421:

  Narrated Aisha:

  It had been revealed in the Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (peace_be_upon_him) died and it was before that time (found) in the Qur'an (and recited by the Muslims).

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816:

  Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

  'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, "We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." (See also: Vol. 8, No. 817 and Vol. 9, No. 424)

It is well known that Zayed , had to snatch the verses from the breasts of men, He only accepted verses that could be verified by at least 2 sahabis.

If many hundreds of people had memorised the entire Quran, there would be no need for this nonsensical practice of snatching verses.

This is why the shii say that even though the Quran today is the word of Allah, it is not in fact the whole word, since many verses were not preserved by Zayed.

I am sorry to say, but this lie is propogated too much by the muslim community, I have no idea when they will face upto the truth.

 

[r.gonzales]

i’m sorry to say, but you have no clue of what you’re talking about. perhaps you should read up on some more detailed history regarding the Quran’s compilation…

the book “an introduction to the sciences of the Qur’aan” by abu ammaar yasir qadhi is a good place to start… islamicbookstore.com/b4260.html

 

[hawk]

r.gonzales:

i’m sorry to say, but you have no clue of what you’re talking about. perhaps you should read up on some more detailed history regarding the Quran’s compilation…

the book “an introduction to the sciences of the Qur’aan” by abu ammaar yasir qadhi is a good place to start… islamicbookstore.com/b4260.html

Mr Gonzales,

I have no doubt that you will believe the fanciful tales of the community, but the scholars of times past, and the traditions of the shii have taught me differently.

So go ahead and deny this, I know your faith, and I have rejected it.

Peace.

 

[r.gonzales]

hawk:

the scholars of times past, and the traditions of the shii have taught me differently.

and what scholars of times past might these be? more liars from the shee’ah who duped you?

hawk:

So go ahead and deny this, I know your faith, and I have rejected it.

deny what? that you’re completely ignorant of my faith? i don’t deny that at all.

 

[hawk]

r.gonzales:

and what scholars of times past might these be? more liars from the shee’ah who duped you?

Ah the lying shee’ah, ofcourse they lie!!!

But that is an altogether different story.

Mr Gonzales,

I appreciate the link you posted, and if didnt know better I would have been tempted to get hold of the book.

However the truth is that one doesnt have to read that particular book, but rather one has to go the source.

One really has to study the sahih ahadith, and it is there that one finds the Truth about the compilation of the Quran.

1. Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Quran. So he said to Uthman, “O chief of the believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before.” So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, “Send us the manuscripts of the Quran so that we may compile the Quranic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.” Hafsa sent it to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, "Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Quran, then write it in the dialect of Quraish as the Quran was revealed in their tongue.” They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Quranic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, "A verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Quran and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle (SAW) reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): ‘Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.’ (33:23) Vol. 6 -Virtues of the Quran - Hadith 510

It is true that there were qurra, however there was disagreement even amongst these, so one ayah was collected on the value of only one man’s word, as this ahadith attests.

The shi’i have always known that the Quran was never completely collected by the first three caliphs, nor was it ever in their interest to collect the kitab, since they were not appointed by Allah.

Unfortunately it was too late for the ummah by the time Hadrat Ali became caliph.

 

[r.gonzales]

anyone can quote ahaadeeth and take them completely out of context, just as you’re doing here. doing so just continues to expose your ignorance of the islamic matters you babble on about.

had you known anything about the Quran’s revelation and its compilation you would know that the Quran was revealed in seven arabic dialects (see: the ahruf of the Quran. during the time period mentioned in the hadeeth you quoted, those who hudhaifah bin al-yamaan spoke of were differring as to whose recitation of the Quran was superior. these muslims were not from amongst the companions of prophet muhammad (many of whom were still alive) and thus weren’t as knowledgeable regarding the proper manners and etiquettes for reciting the Quran.

as for zaid bin thaabit and the other companions commissioned to aid him in completing this compilation, abdullah bin az-zubair, sa’eed bin al-aas and abdur-rahmaan bin al-haarith, were all knowledgeable of the Quran and the arabic language, with sa’eed bin al-aas specifically being chosen to help due to his eloquence and similar arabic style to prophet muhammad. uthmaan had told them that if they differ in anything from the Quran, meaning how to spell a particular word, then write it in the tongue of the quraish for it was revealed in their tongue (i.e., their dialect).

as for the last part you quoted, from “zaid bin thabit added…” until the end, this exposes your ignorace further and just goes to prove that you cannot rely on everything you read on the internet. that last portion is from a completely different and separate narration and not part of the narrative reported from anas bin maalik. the translators mistakenly included it with the narration just prior to it. as for your insinuation that one verse as collected on the value of one man’s word, then this is a lie. the fact that zaid bin thaabit mentioned that he had heard prophet muhammad reciting it is proof that he knew the verse. zaid bin thaabit is one of the companions who had memorised the entire Quran, which is one of the reasons both aboo bakr as-siddeeq and uthmaan bin affaan commissioned him to compile Allah’s book. he set strict criteria and conditions for the compilation to ensure its authenticity, as well other companions who had memorised the entire Quran were consulted and gave their (name removed by moderator)ut to aid in the task, including alee bin abee taalib who not only affirmed that uthmaan carried out the compilation of the Quran th approval of the other companions, but also said that had he been in uthmaan’s position he would have done the same thing.

as for the shee’ah and their absurd belief that the Quran we have today is not complete, the authentic hadeeths and narrations from prophet muhammad’s companions are enough to expose their lies and deceit.

 

[hlgomez]

Mr Gonzales (a.k.a. Bisayang daku ,

How can we trust a source who wrote the words spoken by Muhammad and yet have not been well preserved?

Secondly, are all the writers of the recitations infallible?

I am also asking if those people have lived holy lives in their past; and after they have written the recitations did it affect them greatly that they became saints?

Pio

 

[r.gonzales]

hlgomez:

Mr Gonzales (a.k.a. Bisayang daku ,

firstly, mr. gomez, i don’t know where you get the idea that i’m bisayan.

hlgomez:

How can we trust a source who wrote the words spoken by Muhammad and yet have not been well preserved?

the Quran and hadeeths are the best preserved scriptures in the world. no other can even come close to the level of preservation and authenticity that is found with islam’s legislative texts. read my post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=902814&postcount=24. Allah promised to guard and preserve the Quran when He said, “indeed, We revealed the Reminder (the Quran) and indeed, We are certainly Guardians for it.” and His promise has been kept and this can be witnessed by all the world to see.

hlgomez:

Secondly, are all the writers of the recitations infallible?

as a whole, yes. the sheer number of the prophet’s companions who memorised Allah’s words as they were revealed combined with those who recorded it in writing made it impossible for errors to go unnoticed. also angel gabriel would come to prophet muhammad during the month of ramadaan in every year of his prophethood to review the Quran with him, and in the final year of his prophethood before his death, gabriel reviewed it with him twice.

hlgomez:

I am also asking if those people have lived holy lives in their past; and after they have written the recitations did it affect them greatly that they became saints?

firstly, there is no sainthood in islam. as for prophet muhammad’s companions and their lives, their biographies have been preserved and are recorded in the books of men. if you’re able to find some of their biographies in english, you can read how islam affected their lives. there aren’t many authentic accounts available in english, however. just like just about every bit of real islamic knowledge, it’s readily available in arabic.

 

[Booklover]

r.gonzales:

also angel gabriel would come to prophet muhammad during the month of ramadaan in every year of his prophethood to review the Quran with him, and in the final year of his prophethood before his death, gabriel reviewed it with him twice.

Mr. Gonzales, you made my day! I needed a good laugh and I certainly got it when I read this statement. It is so funny!

 

[hlgomez]

firstly, mr. gomez, i don’t know where you get the idea that i’m bisayan.

Wanna have a good laugh, too? It’s just an expression, bro. Natakot at naligalig tuloy ako sa 'yo.

also angel gabriel would come to prophet muhammad during the month of ramadaan in every year of his prophethood to review the Quran with him, and in the final year of his prophethood before his death, gabriel reviewed it with him twice.

Mr. Gonzales, you made my day! I needed a good laugh and I certainly got it when I read this statement. It is so funny!

Did angel Gabriel (if he really is) told Muhammad that they contained errors, Mr. Gonzales? And what about the angel reviewing it with those who wrote them because there were not a single writer of his recitations?

Pio

 

[Booklover]

hlgomez:

Did angel Gabriel (if he really is) told Muhammad that they contained errors, Mr. Gonzales? And what about the angel reviewing it with those who wrote them because there were not a single writer of his recitations?

Pio

They keep saying the Quran is “the word of God” but these so-called “revelations” always come supposedly through an angel who even checks them with them to make sure they got it right! If this really is the word of God as they claim, why didn’t God himself reveal it then?

 

[Reuben_J]

meedo:

“2. Did they have gifts of discernment to distinguish that what they were receiving from Muhammad’s recitations were actually coming from God?”

Yes , they had .

Please ask whatever questions you have

The gift of discernment - to be able to discern with authenticity whether the message is from God, or from the evil one or just from the human mind.

The question is - was this gift for the Quran writers natural or supernatural? Was it just human ability or did God give them this gift so that they were able to discern the truthfulness of the source of the revelation?

 

[selvaraj]

Booklover:

They keep saying the Quran is “the word of God” but these so-called “revelations” always come supposedly through an angel who even checks them with them to make sure they got it right! If this really is the word of God as they claim, why didn’t God himself reveal it then?

Qura`n revealed by Satan. Please read 2 Corinthians 11:14

Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light!

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[exoflare]

selvaraj:

Qura`n revealed by Satan. Please read 2 Corinthians 11:14

Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light!

In Christ,
selvaraj

This picture was taken in the Hira Cave, where Mohammed claimed to first start receiving his revelations from the “Angel”… Looks like that particular evil spirit wasn’t very camera-shy, either.

ampbreia.com/ampbreia2073006.gif

The same picture is also found on an Islamic web site. This page calls the photograph “an unbelievable miracle”. I call it “disturbing”.