"How Religion Increases Depression in Teens" (???)

[benidict]

wow…thanks for both of your very different replies

i may yet chime in here, very interesting thread. i just wanted to say though, that when i clicked onto it, and saw what i assume is a picture of you, i thought that my daughter had joined the forum! lol! if thats your picture, you and her look alot alike. it startled me for a second. Peace to you and yours

 

[benidict]

my point exactly…the standard at which they live is still far less than even the least successful person outside their communities. their self imposed religiously motivated hermit lifestyle keeps their entire community down.

“thats the way they chose to live”

perhaps…but then who are we to judge anyone’s way of life as successful or not successful?

just because hudderites or the amish seems quaint or cute to you/…and say a life of weekly parties with tons of binge drinking does not…does not mean the amish are more or less successful than someone who chooses that lifestyle

self imposed religiously motivated hermit lifestyle? keeps their community down? you dont know much about the amish do you? how many do you personally know? yep im chiming in…lol!

 

[Holly3278]

I remember that I had a very dismal life before I came to know God when I was about 11 or 12 years old. Of course, up until I was about 10 or 11, I was raised in a household where my dad was an alcoholic and was abusive to my mom. I was, however, raised in church. I only attended Sunday School for much of my youth though. I never was baptized until 2005. I finally was confirmed on Easter Vigil of 2006. I can’t say that my life got much better but I did finally have purpose in my life.

 

[Rocky]

CharlesDarwin;6975328**:

I put it in quotes to signify that i believed that was the next response.

…

**so dont ASSume **that just because being “X” would make you “Y”…that “X” makes everyone “Y”

It seems that the only one who assumes anything here is you when you answer replies that haven’t been made yet.

 

[beegirl]

Originally Posted by CharlesDarwin
I would agree with this studies findings I know when i stopped going to church(well when my parents stopped forcing me to go) i became a much happier more outgoing and althogether kinder person

I don’t blame you for this. No one can be happy in any religion when it’s forced upon them. I grew up in a Baptist church, and I felt the only reason I was going was because my parents were. I got nothing out of it and I didn’t feel close to God…at least not there.

i may yet chime in here, very interesting thread. i just wanted to say though, that when i clicked onto it, and saw what i assume is a picture of you, i thought that my daughter had joined the forum! lol! if thats your picture, you and her look alot alike. it startled me for a second. Peace to you and yours

ha is your daughter around my age?

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I’ve often found, in studying the lives of great men of God, that their depression in early years (from teens to young adults) came from a misunderstanding of their religion. Men like John Wesley or Jonathan Edwards were depressed in their youth until they realized what Christ meant to them, and then their depression was kept in check if not vanquished. It therefore doesn’t surprise me if some teens in America are getting depressed, as there’s little effort on educating people in doctrine or orthodox theology in most of our pulpits. It also doesn’t surprise me if someone is in the situation like beegirl said she was, where a kid is being taken or thrown into a religion with the attitude of “this is what you are” rather than why it should be who they are.

 

[JackVk]

From my own experience, I say this article is total BS. I’m 18 and returned to the Church about a year ago, and I’ve never been happier. Religious people are so much friendlier. The non-religious kids at my high school treated me like dirt. The secular world is nothing but a struggle to keep up with the Joneses on the latest fad, which will eventually go out of style.The non-religious, in my opinion, can’t carry on a conversation that doesn’t involve sex, drinking, drugs, movies, or idiot celebrities.

It’s come to the point where my only friends are Christians, because they are the only people who I can relate to. I can have an intelligent conversation with them about things we enjoy. The religious people are real people, not the dimwits who worship Hollywood.

 

[Gift_from_God]

From my own experience, I say this article is total BS. I’m 18 and returned to the Church about a year ago, and I’ve never been happier. Religious people are so much friendlier. The non-religious kids at my high school treated me like dirt. The secular world is nothing but a struggle to keep up with the Joneses on the latest fad, which will eventually go out of style.The non-religious, in my opinion, can’t carry on a conversation that doesn’t involve sex, drinking, drugs, movies, or idiot celebrities.

It’s come to the point where my only friends are Christians, because they are the only people who I can relate to. I can have an intelligent conversation with them about things we enjoy. The religious people are real people, not the dimwits who worship Hollywood.

I’m 18 as well and saw the same thing in high school. Since I was considered to be one of the cool kids, when people found out that I’m Catholic, they just stared in silence shocked.

 

[benidict]

I don’t blame you for this. No one can be happy in any religion when it’s forced upon them. I grew up in a Baptist church, and I felt the only reason I was going was because my parents were. I got nothing out of it and I didn’t feel close to God…at least not there.

ha is your daughter around my age?

my daughter is 18. she turned out to be a wonderful young lady! love her independent streak. she got that from me. Peace

 

[benidict]

not that this was my point, of course atheists do things that increase their own depression…just like many christians do things that increase their own depression, and even if these things were a 100% indicator of not having success in the future, it is not anyone’s business except the parent’s and the kids

as far as things being detrimental to a person’s future success all in moderation, religion in excess can be harmful to a person’s future success. teen pregnancy rates are highest in states with high rates of religiosity,and how about the amish, the huderites, the FLDS etc…how successful do those kids turn out to be?

but again my point in the quoted post was not to say atheists are not just as depressed as everyone else, but rather to counter the claim that people are only atheist so they can have lots of sex and do drugs

cant speak for the hutterites. but the Amish run some of the most successful farming comunities in America. they also have some of the best carpenters the world has to offer. and they also have many other talents, you probably in your ignorance would never be aware of. this is the second such quip about the Amish i have come across from you. why dont you get to know some personally, then come back here, and tell me what you find out. i can tell you the good the bad and the ugly about these folk. i have known and lived among them personally. and you making them out to be hicks in the sticks is offensive. have a nice day npatrol:

 

[JackVk]

cant speak for the hutterites. but the Amish run some of the most successful farming comunities in America. they also have some of the best carpenters the world has to offer. and they also have many other talents, you probably in your ignorance would never be aware of. this is the second such quip about the Amish i have come across from you. why dont you get to know some personally, then come back here, and tell me what you find out. i can tell you the good the bad and the ugly about these folk. i have known and lived among them personally. and you making them out to be hicks in the sticks is offensive. have a nice day npatrol:

Ever eaten Amish produce before? Delicious . Their “hermit way of life” sure seems to serve them well. And the Amish people who sold it were very polite.

 

[dianaiad]

how about i judge how happy i am and you judge how happy you are? sound good?

remember what happens when one makes ASSumptions

I would say…that there is a difference between happiness and joy.
I would also say…that your posts do not look like they are written by someone as happy as you claim. After all, you have specifically come to CAF to take offense at religion. Happy people, as a rule, don’t chase after something to be offended by.

…and yes, I realize that I, too, am an odd person out here, being a Mormon in a Catholic forum. However, I fully admit to being a grouchy old curmudgeon. I find that defending my belief system against inaccurate claims about it makes my mind work and gives me typing practice…and sometimes it makes me happy. Most of the time it makes me frustrated. I get HAPPY by listening to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and knitting Christmas sweaters. I get JOY from going to church, studying the scriptures and in the occasional times when I actually am doing the right thing.

You get your happiness however you get it. I think you would be happier as a theist, but then that’s because I am one. I’m biased.

 

[dianaiad]

I didn’t say only atheists were rational or that only theists were brainwashed
all i said is that most atheists are not atheists because we want to have lots of sex…were atheists because as we see it…atheism makes more sense and aligns more precisely with reality

i didnt say some christians could not say the same thing

All things in Time and Space have a cause (anyone who denies this is being obfuscatory)

All things we know of. this does not mean everything…energy for example is still up in the air

The Universe proceeds in Time and in Space

The universe proceeds in our time and space but some hypothesis suggest that many many time/space bubbles may exist in time and space

The Universe has a cause.

Proof?

Since the Universe has a cause, it cannot be cyclical, as Time and Space must have originated, necessarily, from something Timeless and Formless: eternal and infinite.

even if this is true you have no reason to assume this was a being and not simply an unknown force

Equally, you have no reason to assume that this was NOT a being (or Being) rather than an ‘unknown force.’ In other words, while we cannot prove, impirically, that there IS a God, you cannot prove, impirically, that there isn’t one. It comes down to something else.

For theists, it comes down to whether they can believe in evidence outside of impirical scientific experimentation. If they can, they believe in a deity. If not, then not. Science does not, cannot, and should not TRY to deal in spiritual things, any more than microphones can transmit light.

 

[dianaiad]

What do you mean by ‘proof’? A logical argument is based on thought, not on proof. Do I have to prove to you that, by applying force to a chair, it will fall over?

Depends upon the chair and the force.

Do I have to prove that the Sun comes up in the East and sets in the West, setting Time for us?

Well…yes, because there WILL come a day when day doesn’t come. The sun will not rise in the east; it may not rise at all.

The Universe so completely exists in time and space that it follows the same laws of cause and effect that the chair and the Sun follow. How can I prove things which everyone knows to be true?

Possibly because it wasn’t all THAT long ago that 'everyone knew" that it was the sun doing the moving, and not the earth? …and yeah, I know that I seem to be arguing the other side here. Bear with me.

What do you mean? The Universe itself is an unknown force for most people , but (as I think I’ve established) it must have a higher origin than itself. A balloon may be able to expand, but a person must wrap the rubbers together to make a balloon, and then blow into it. The Universe cannot just exist because of an “unknown force”, because that higher, unknown force would be just as mindless as the Universe,

er, no…we can’t make any conclusions at all about the mindlessness of an unknown force, because, well…it’s unknown.That’s the problem atheists have with simply dismissing deity from the picture and assigning everything to an ‘unknown force.’ They can’t say that it IS mindless. It’s unknown.

and would thus be subject to space and time too.

As far as I can tell, the proponents of the Big Bang theory make no such assumptions about the universe before that event…if there was, indeed, a ‘before.’ in terms of time as we know it.

If something is subject to anything else, it cannot be called the end-point: the end-point, the Necessary Being, must exist by it’s own existence, and not be contingent on anything else.

Ok, now you’ve lost me.

The fact that God exists, and that this can be shown through a little hope and logic, gives me more happiness than anything. I think religious youth who are depressed have been watching too much Dawkins/Hitchens, and probably aren’t hearing any apologetics for their “beliefs”.

I believe, with you, that God exists…whether His existance can be shown through ‘hope and logic’ is debatable. “Hope” isn’t proof of anything, and logic needs an agreed upon premise, which atheists simply do not share with us. However, if one is willing to accept that evidence for Him CAN be recieved through means other than science, and that science itself has absolutely nothing to do with the Who or the Why—but only the ‘how’ and the 'what," then one can start getting the evidence for His existance. Generally when He tells us; in most cases, it’s almost litterally a 'yes, I exist…I’m talking to you, aren’t I?" sort of experience.

As to 'depressed religious youth…" not having read the study, I can still ask a couple of questions about it; does it take into account culture outside of religion or parental attitudes outside of religion? If they are differentiating by ‘race,’ they need to also differentiate by culture. Without that, and without taking into account all the different stresses that culture in general places on adolescents, the study is…not really helpful.

 

[CharlesDarwin]

I would say…that there is a difference between happiness and joy.
I would also say…that your posts do not look like they are written by someone as happy as you claim. After all, you have specifically come to CAF to take offense at religion. Happy people, as a rule, don’t chase after something to be offended by.

…and yes, I realize that I, too, am an odd person out here, being a Mormon in a Catholic forum. However, I fully admit to being a grouchy old curmudgeon. I find that defending my belief system against inaccurate claims about it makes my mind work and gives me typing practice…and sometimes it makes me happy. Most of the time it makes me frustrated. I get HAPPY by listening to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and knitting Christmas sweaters. I get JOY from going to church, studying the scriptures and in the occasional times when I actually am doing the right thing.

You get your happiness however you get it. I think you would be happier as a theist, but then that’s because I am one. I’m biased.

i originally came here because i was extremely bored and had to sit at work doing nothing, thankfully i had my laptop in my car and theres free wifi across the street…now i come only because occasionally theres an interesting topic

also i do not take offense, nor did i come looking to be offended by religion. if i took offense at anything in this topic it was that i am atheist only for sex…seeing as how i have had only one sexual partner and thats my wife…i seriously made a mistake if thats the case

 

[CharlesDarwin]

Equally, you have no reason to assume that this was NOT a being (or Being) rather than an ‘unknown force.’ In other words, while we cannot prove, impirically, that there IS a God, you cannot prove, impirically, that there isn’t one. It comes down to something else.

For theists, it comes down to whether they can believe in evidence outside of impirical scientific experimentation. If they can, they believe in a deity. If not, then not. Science does not, cannot, and should not TRY to deal in spiritual things, any more than microphones can transmit light.

i do not claim to know it was NOT a being…i simply BELIEVE it far more likely to have been a blind unthinking, unplanned force…why? we know such forces exist with empirical evidence…we have no empirical evidence of any “super” natural beings so there are fewer assumptions in believing in an unplanned force than in a planning thinking acting being beyond our universe

science usually does not deal with spiritual claims…most “attacks” on religion from science involve the physical world when theists make claims on this world

such as virgin births men flying w/o any technological aid men raising from the dead etc those are very much in science’s realm to make critical judgments on, when religion makes claims of biology, physics, medicine…science is the only tool we have to determine if these are possible.

and why is it theists only say religion is outside science’s realm when science proves them wrong?

say for example if we tested that holy relic that is suppose to be the transubstantiated flesh of christ, and found that it had evidence of only female genetic information ie no biological father… i can not even fathom any christian saying “well we don’t really care science cant test faith” you know just as well as I that if such an event were to occur it would be yelled from every pulpit in the world as scientific proof of jesus and transubstantiation as loud as the preists could yell it.

no people only discount science’s realm when science shows their preconceived ideas and beliefs to be wrong

 

[beegirl]

I didin’t mean to start an argument as to weather or not God exhists

But since we’re talking about that…If you, as a Christian, want to convince someone that God exhists based on scientific proof, then you’re going about it the wrong way (at least in my opinion).

Proof eliminates faith.

Thats what our whole religion is based on. Atheists say “there’s not enought proof for me to believe in God.” And they’re exactly right. Theres never enough. Thats where faith comes in…right.

Atheist may see this as a “cop out”…and honestly, thats probably what it sounds like. Thats why is not up to us to prove to people that God exhist. We can say what we believe, but thats about it…the rest is up to God working in them.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I didin’t mean to start an argument as to weather or not God exhists

Too late - thou must reap what thou hast wrought.

Or um…something…

We can say what we believe, but thats about it…the rest is up to God working in them.

 

[Justin1982]

I didin’t mean to start an argument as to weather or not God exhists

But since we’re talking about that…If you, as a Christian, want to convince someone that God exhists based on scientific proof, then you’re going about it the wrong way (at least in my opinion).

Proof eliminates faith.

Thats what our whole religion is based on. Atheists say “there’s not enought proof for me to believe in God.” And they’re exactly right. Theres never enough. Thats where faith comes in…right.

Atheist may see this as a “cop out”…and honestly, thats probably what it sounds like. Thats why is not up to us to prove to people that God exhist. We can say what we believe, but thats about it…the rest is up to God working in them.

On the same token, I’ve spoken to atheists that believe that one day science will explain everything. I have noticed that atheists will claim that atheism is not a belief system but as above stated you have to have faith in something to even be an atheist. You have to have faith in humanity, that it will ultimately give you the honest answer to everything and that bias is not being used to explain something that a larger group of people wants or “needs.” Look at class warfare in the lead up to the Soviet Union, a truly atheist state, 50 million killed in the name of the “greater good.”

 

[benidict]

Ever eaten Amish produce before? Delicious . Their “hermit way of life” sure seems to serve them well. And the Amish people who sold it were very polite.

yes i have many times. doesnt matter if its a wedding or a funeral, or sunday dinner. if you leave hungry, its not their fault! and they are not as isolated as people think. i could also go into the way they build their houses, barns etc. they just build things better. also they are not tied into the banks, they are not tied into insurance scams. they are a completely self sufficient community. they have alot of the same problems any other group has, but they handle their own business quite well. Peace