How second marriage vows affect first marriage children

[TJSJ]

Hi. I have a question about second marriage vows in the catholic church.
A woman I know was married in the Catholic church. She and her husband had several children before he passed away in his early 50’s. Approx. 8 years later, she remarried in a civil ceremony, followed by a Catholic church wedding around a year later.
My question is: According to the church, how does this affect her relationship with her children. Do the vows “forsaking all others” apply to her children? Is she to put her relationship with her new husband ahead of her relationship with her children? This man has always acted horribly to her children and her grandchildren. He is selfish and controling, and i have witnessed him raising his hand to her in an abusive manner. She will deny it, but the evidence is there. This man has alienated her from her children and grandchildren for 30 years. She has allowed this to happen, because he is her husband, and she is Catholic.
Is this ok in the eyes of the Catholic church? I am not trying to be combative, I genuinly want to know where the church stands on this issue.
Thank you.

 

[sousley]

Hi. I have a question about second marriage vows in the catholic church.
A woman I know was married in the Catholic church. She and her husband had several children before he passed away in his early 50’s. Approx. 8 years later, she remarried in a civil ceremony, followed by a Catholic church wedding around a year later.
My question is: According to the church, how does this affect her relationship with her children. Do the vows “forsaking all others” apply to her children? Is she to put her relationship with her new husband ahead of her relationship with her children? This man has always acted horribly to her children and her grandchildren. He is selfish and controling, and i have witnessed him raising his hand to her in an abusive manner. She will deny it, but the evidence is there. This man has alienated her from her children and grandchildren for 30 years. She has allowed this to happen, because he is her husband, and she is Catholic.
Is this ok in the eyes of the Catholic church? I am not trying to be combative, I genuinly want to know where the church stands on this issue.
Thank you.

Hi TJSJ. Welcome to the forums. As to your question, No, the ‘forsaking all others’ is with regard to the 'take (…) as your lawfully wedded husband/wife; so it deals with the relationship proper to the couple. As to your other sentiments, the previous children are a part of her family and Christian marriage is one that unites not only the perspective individuals but also their families by extension. It is one of unity and is to make the home ‘the domestic Church’ under God’s law (not man’s law).

This is to say that there shouldn’t be a division of family, like “they’re your kids, not mine”, because this marriage is to be one of unity; the husband is to love his wife and seek her salvation as Christ loved the Church and sought hers(Ep 5). All of her, and that includes children that he has drawn to himself by the covenant of matrimony. If there is violence or divisive behaviors in the marriage, they are a product of sin and don’t bear reflection on the sanctity of marriage.

 

[TJSJ]

Thank you Sousley.
He definitely does not consider her children as part of his family. Over the years, he has forbid her to go to many family functions, etc. He is very jealous of her children, and he wants to be the center of attention in her life. He constantly starts conflict with her children if they don’t (please pardon my description) “kiss his butt”. What is worse (in my opinion) is that she condones his behavior while hiding behind the church. “Well, he is my husband…”
Are his actions sins?
Are hers?
Is there scripture that i can site to show her that this behavior is wrong?
As a result of this, the woman’s relationships with her children have deteriorated to the point that half do not talk to her, and the other half barely do. The family has been broken, seemingly beyond repair, as a result of their marriage and how he conducts himself and how she allows him to.
It is heartbreaking.

 

[pianistclare]

Why do you suppose she married him in the first place?
I think, in charity, one must start there. What was he like prior to the marriage? What caused the bad behavior, or was it there all along?
The best thing you can do for her is to pray, gently recommend that she speak with the priest, (with her husband along if he will go as well) pray, advise her to document any abuses and report it, and pray some more.
She needs a good friend.

She must feel very alone. Or she is very afraid of him. Keep your eyes and ears open.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hi. I have a question about second marriage vows in the catholic church.
A woman I know was married in the Catholic church. She and her husband had several children before he passed away in his early 50’s. Approx. 8 years later, she remarried in a civil ceremony, followed by a Catholic church wedding around a year later.
My question is: According to the church, how does this affect her relationship with her children. Do the vows “forsaking all others” apply to her children? Is she to put her relationship with her new husband ahead of her relationship with her children? This man has always acted horribly to her children and her grandchildren. He is selfish and controling, and i have witnessed him raising his hand to her in an abusive manner. She will deny it, but the evidence is there. This man has alienated her from her children and grandchildren for 30 years. She has allowed this to happen, because he is her husband, and she is Catholic.
Is this ok in the eyes of the Catholic church? I am not trying to be combative, I genuinly want to know where the church stands on this issue.
Thank you.

The Catholic Church does not condone treating *anyone *horribly, let alone your wife’s children and grandchildren. If she believes she has to condone her husband’s obvious sinfulness because he is her husband, encourage her to talk to her pastor about that. It is not true. Even if his behavior were not so bad that is would relieve her of the conjugal duty to maintain the common conjugal life, she still has a duty to defend virtuous behavior over vice and encourage her husband to mend his ways in view of the Final Judgment. She also has the right to maintain a relationship with those who have done no wrong to her husband, especially her children and grandchildren. Her husband is wrong for discouraging her from exercising that right, and the right those children and grandchildren have to socialize with their mother (provided they have not been abusive or violated their mother’s trust in any way themselves, of course, such as protesting her right to remarry.)

 

[TJSJ]

Pianistclare,
I am not sure why she married him. They had known each other less than a month when they married civily. My guess would be companionship. He dressed nice and had money, and promised to take her to travel the world (which they did).
His behavior toward her children has always been like that. In his declining years, all had hoped that he had changed, but he is even worse. If she wants to have her children and grandchildren visit, he gets jealous (she even says so herself) He will be verbally abusive and physically intimidating to the young grandchildren, threatening to smack them for sitting crosslegged in a chair, for example. He waits until she leaves the room, or thinks no one is paying attention. When it is brought to her attention, she passes it off. She has grown to making excuses for him rather than to defend her young grandchildren.
I just dont understand it. Perhaps i am just “wired diffently”.
She always speaks of the church, and is a very active member. Both of them are at mass every Sunday, and when they were a bit younger, thdy would go three times a week. I cannot, in my heart, fathom how this behavior could be condoned by ANY church. She, however, insists that they are doing nothing wrong, and are living by the rules of the Catholic church.
I just dont see how this can be so. I had to ask for myself.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Thank you Sousley.
He definitely does not consider her children as part of his family. Over the years, he has forbid her to go to many family functions, etc. He is very jealous of her children, and he wants to be the center of attention in her life. He constantly starts conflict with her children if they don’t (please pardon my description) “kiss his butt”. What is worse (in my opinion) is that she condones his behavior while hiding behind the church. “Well, he is my husband…”
Are his actions sins?
Are hers?
Is there scripture that i can site to show her that this behavior is wrong?
As a result of this, the woman’s relationships with her children have deteriorated to the point that half do not talk to her, and the other half barely do. The family has been broken, seemingly beyond repair, as a result of their marriage and how he conducts himself and how she allows him to.
It is heartbreaking.

She needs to speak to her priest, as the Church does not condone this behavior and does not expect a person to subject themselves to such behavior. She is not expected to stay with the person. The Church allows for a civil divorce to protect the financial interests of the person or to insure the person’s safety, but that does not mean the Church allows or recognizes divorce. They may allow the civil proceeding only, for grave reasons such as you have stated, but they do not consider the marriage bond broken. So she needs to speak to a priest who will advise her on what she may do. But no, the Church does not expect people to live with an abusive spouse.

My now-deceased Pastor once gave a homily on this. He said that if a person knowingly allows themselves to be abused, knows it is wrong, is in their right mind, is able to get out of the situation, but refuses help or is too lazy to seek it, that MAY be the sin of sloth. That does not excuse the abuser, though, one bit. Whether he was right or not, I don’t know. That is the only time I ever heard anything like that.

We know that what the abuser does is objectively sinful, but we cannot pass judgement on him, only on the actions.

I hope this answers some of your questions.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you Sousley.
He definitely does not consider her children as part of his family. Over the years, he has forbid her to go to many family functions, etc. He is very jealous of her children, and he wants to be the center of attention in her life. He constantly starts conflict with her children if they don’t (please pardon my description) “kiss his butt”. What is worse (in my opinion) is that she condones his behavior while hiding behind the church. “Well, he is my husband…”
Are his actions sins?
Are hers?
Is there scripture that i can site to show her that this behavior is wrong?
As a result of this, the woman’s relationships with her children have deteriorated to the point that half do not talk to her, and the other half barely do. The family has been broken, seemingly beyond repair, as a result of their marriage and how he conducts himself and how she allows him to.
It is heartbreaking.

Is this the way a saint acts? Of course his actions are objectively sinful. We can’t know what sort of mitigating factors are there (as we cannot read hearts), but of course it is wrong to treat anyone that way.

She doesn’t need a Scripture passage to know that she should not sit still and let someone bully someone else, so put the situation frankly. She ought to have the courage to stand up for and defend someone being treated so badly, even a stranger, even if she has to stand up to her husband. She shouldn’t sit still and watch her bishop treat someone like that without speaking up! It is indefensible that she’d allow some bully to treat her children and grandchildren like that! Of all people that should be their protector, they ought to have been able to depend on her. She has let them down, and while I would try to put it gently, I’d be very clear about what she’s been allowing to go on.

 

[pianistclare]

Pianistclare,
I am not sure why she married him. They had known each other less than a month when they married civily. My guess would be companionship. He dressed nice and had money, and promised to take her to travel the world (which they did).
His behavior toward her children has always been like that. In his declining years, all had hoped that he had changed, but he is even worse. If she wants to have her children and grandchildren visit, he gets jealous (she even says so herself) He will be verbally abusive and physically intimidating to the young grandchildren, threatening to smack them for sitting crosslegged in a chair, for example. He waits until she leaves the room, or thinks no one is paying attention. When it is brought to her attention, she passes it off. She has grown to making excuses for him rather than to defend her young grandchildren.
I just dont understand it. Perhaps i am just “wired diffently”.
She always speaks of the church, and is a very active member. Both of them are at mass every Sunday, and when they were a bit younger, thdy would go three times a week. I cannot, in my heart, fathom how this behavior could be condoned by ANY church. She, however, insists that they are doing nothing wrong, and are living by the rules of the Catholic church.
I just dont see how this can be so. I had to ask for myself.

He ,might also have some medical (mental) issues. A visit with the priest, as well as a physician would be a good recommendation.

 

[marymary1975]

The issue that is present with this situation is plain and simple abuse. She is marries to an abuser and no the church does no approve of abusive behavior in any marriage. It doesn’t matter the number of the marriage, this is an abusive relationship and no she doesn’t have to stay with him.

Condoning or looking excuses for an abusive spouse is a very common occurrence between women victims of domestic violence. Is not that she condones him…she is a victim who has had her self esteem destroyed and has started to believe that she deserved what is happening. This is a very big problem with abused women and the reason why isnsondifficult to get them to leave an abusive relationship.

Probably what you need to do is have her talk to a priest and have her have some counselingto help her. It is a very difficult situation to gget out.

 

[EasterJoy]

The issue that is present with this situation is plain and simple abuse. She is marries to an abuser and no the church does no approve of abusive behavior in any marriage. It doesn’t matter the number of the marriage, this is an abusive relationship and no she doesn’t have to stay with him.

Condoning or looking excuses for an abusive spouse is a very common occurrence between women victims of domestic violence. Is not that she condones him…she is a victim who has had her self esteem destroyed and has started to believe that she deserved what is happening. This is a very big problem with abused women and the reason why isnsondifficult to get them to leave an abusive relationship.

Probably what you need to do is have her talk to a priest and have her have some counselingto help her. It is a very difficult situation to gget out.

I think this does sound like a person who is more likely to believe a priest than anyone else. If she is in the same parish and the OP has witnessed or had the victim tell her about this abuse, she herself can ask for guidance about how to handle this issue with her friend. I’m very concerned that the friend’s children might take scandal in the belief that the Church condones this situation, let alone that the Church requires the mother to condone this behavior as a condition of being a good Catholic wife. People’s faith has been ruined by less.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…

This man has alienated her from her children and grandchildren for 30 years. She has allowed this to happen…

Perhaps you are looking at this incorrectly. What you are seeing as an unintended consequence-- the alienation of children/family and the distancing-- may have been the goal. Not a flaw but a feature. He was the method, not the goal. The means to an end.

After dating one month and then getting married, she would have been well aware it would strain the relationships, unless she’s not very intelligent? Or introspective? Conciously or unconciously he may simply have initially been the means for establishing some distance that she desired.

Believe me, it happens.

But back on topic-- no, the Church doesn’t teach that a marriage eliminates responsibilities or commitments to other people in one’s life. It may be the priority relationship, but not an excuse for sabotaging or destroying other healthy relationships in one’s life.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thank you Sousley.
He definitely does not consider her children as part of his family. Over the years, he has forbid her to go to many family functions, etc. He is very jealous of her children, and he wants to be the center of attention in her life. He constantly starts conflict with her children if they don’t (please pardon my description) “kiss his butt”. What is worse (in my opinion) is that she condones his behavior while hiding behind the church. “Well, he is my husband…”
Are his actions sins?
Are hers?
Is there scripture that i can site to show her that this behavior is wrong?
As a result of this, the woman’s relationships with her children have deteriorated to the point that half do not talk to her, and the other half barely do. The family has been broken, seemingly beyond repair, as a result of their marriage and how he conducts himself and how she allows him to.
It is heartbreaking.

The Church does not require spouses to remain in an abusive situation. In such cases, the victimized spouse would be well within his/her rights to leave the situation and contract a civil divorce as a measure of protection. However, neither spouse could remarry without a declaration of nullity.

As a SP myself, I would NEVER have turned away DH’s daughter. As a PP said, “Forsaking all others” refers only to the fact that you must be faithful to your spouse for life. It says NOTHING about the relationship towards stepchildren. In fact, when there are stepchildren involved (especially if the children are still living with their parent(s)) the priest may take extra time with the couple to ensure that the rights of the children will be recognized. (Our priest talked to us about this before we got married.) If her husband is isolating her from her family, this is abusive behaviour and counselling, at the very least, is indicated. He’s overstepping his authority as a husband. Sometimes I think people forget that although wives are to be subject to their husbands, men also are subject to Christ. So if a husband does a bad job leading his family, he has to answer to HIS Boss - which should really make him stop and think.