How should a Catholic react to liturgical abuses?

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MtnDwellar said:
I’ve witnessed many abuses. I brought up two of the most egregious abuses to my pastor.
  1. Using a wooden salad bowl to hold the Eucharistic instead of a ciborium.
  2. Adlibbing the Eucharistic Prayer.
He responded by first informing me that he is an expert liturgist. Then explained that the wooden bowl is a symbol of Christ’s humility and the adlib prayer is a prayer from the heart which is always better than a prayer read from a book.

My point is that priests know better than I do what is required during the liturgy. Knowing the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum, he decided that he knows better than the Church. I can have no influence on him.
Although this church was very conveniently located, I stopped attending Mass there. I knew the consecration was illicit and I was concerned about the validity. If a priest doesn’t teach what the church teaches, doesn’t do what the Church requires, then how can I possibly trust that he intends what the Church intends during consecration?
I continued to use this Church for Confession. I believe that Sacrament was valid and there was never a line.
My advice regarding liturgical abuse is to find the best liturgy possible and accept it.
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Why didn’t you document what the abuse was and what the priest told you went you took it up with him and then write to the Bishop. If the Bishop is kept in the dark nothing will change.
 
The abuses were were not limited in the diocese to this parish. I assumed the Bishop was aware.
 
I think the first step is the understanding that no lay person should be free-lancing as a bishop, who is the one canonically over the celebration of the Mass. Limit concern for liturgical abuse to one’s own parish. Start with the priest, if there is an issue, then go to the bishop if you must. You will be dismissed if you did not first try to talk to the priest.

Apart from one’s own parish, nothing should be done. No one is going to care what someone thinks about the liturgy who never actually attends the liturgy. That has always been my standard answer about music. I do not care what people think that know nothing of the parish and do not live here. A priest has a lot of people to concern himself with without sweating people on the internet.
 
You could be right. It goes against my grain to go over someone’s head. I probably should have. Instead, I went to a different diocese.
 
IMO, any bishop that comes across complaining on social media about liturgical abuses is would be wise to ignore it. Because if a person goes directly to social media rather than directly to the bishop himself, it makes the person look as though they’re grumbling rather than having a legitimate grievance. If someone thinks there are problems, they should go through the official channels.
 
MtnDwellar said:
You could be right. It goes against my grain to go over someone’s head. I probably should have. Instead, I went to a different diocese.
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Don’t view it as going over someone head. You would be following the correct procedure.
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
Many places are offering what you term “drive thru” sacraments; yours is the first (although I’m sure not only) complaint I’ve heard about it given that we’re all trying to figure out ways to manage the pandemic circumstances. The most strict and orthodox priests I can point you to are involved with such activities. I find it hard to make an issue of it for the interim period in which we find ourselves.
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*On the drive thru communion

The Body of Christ would be prone to desecration! Several years ago some bishops (especially in rural areas) mandated communion in the tongue because there has been reports of people (especially cockfighters) bringing home the consecrated hosts to feed it to their chicken so that it would win in cockfighting, others bury in their farms for plentiful harvests, and there are many other beliefs.

Now, why have a risky drive thru communion, when we can exercise communion in the hand during Mass with regular disinfection of the hands of the faithful and ministers, and with social distancing being practiced in the line, or the best is to have spiritual communion? Doesn’t drive thru communion lead to the commercialization of the Eucharist?

I understand that it is permitted for the ministers to bring the Eucharist to the sick and the elderly, but for some random people in the car? No way!
Cor_ad_Cor said:
There could be a handful of reasons for incomplete vestments. You’re absolutely right; this is a rubrical violation - one that’s been discussed on this site before. Unless you’ve determined through proper diligence that it’s an intentional disregard for the rubrics, how do you claim it as an abuse and how did you appoint yourself as arbiter?
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*On vestments

What reason are you looking for? Is it the temperature? Then why is it being practiced in churches that are air conditioned, as well as in churches where a bunch of fans surround the altar? Why is it being done even during cold season? Is it the lack of chasuble? Then why is it that even old priests do it? They never purchased a single chasuble their whole life? Is it that the priests are allergic to the vestments?

Another, why replace the alb with the cassock (done by many priests abd bishops)?

If there were valid reasons, then it should happen in a few parishes only. But the situation is that it is done in MOST parishes, if not all.

Are there really valid reasons? Or is it just it has become the custom?
 
laudarebenedicere said:
To tell us to “shut up because …
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I hope you don’t feel that I was telling you to “shut up”, but I am going to bow out of this thread now. It’s my opinion that you’re sounding a fire alarm where there’s barely a whiff of smoke. I’m also concerned that your focus puts the rubrics above the clergy’s efforts to minister to the people of God in adversity.

Praying you find peace.
 
Some actions could be taken.

Praying for the clergy involved (bishops, priests, deacons etc.) in abuses and doing acts of reparation regularly would help a lot. Also, fasting and praying novenas intending for the end of abuses are helpful as well.

Trying to reason with them in a filial way could help too.

Eventually, if nothing works, just don’t participate anymore. Unfortunately, we have little to no control…
 
I don’t analyze or research or inform a bishop when the occasional priest strays from the normal way in his duties. Verifying that it’s an “abuse” is great, when practical, but you don’t need to stick around in the meantime. If it’s really bothersome, like he’s doing his own thing with the Eucharistic Prayer, I try to avoid his services.

If a schedule of priests’ assignments isn’t available, I’ll probably go to another church (this is difficult during a pandemic especially if you rely on public transportation). I like what MtnDweller said. Identify what is the most troublesome, and see what your alternatives are. Maximize attendance at Masses where the priests aren’t inserting their personal, supposed insights (i.e., ego?).
 
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Fair enough. I read it as simply elaborating on their complaint, which is bound to happen as the thread progresses. FWIW, some of the presumed possible abuses would not bother me (unless verified as noncompliant).
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
I hope you don’t feel that I was telling you to “shut up”, but I am going to bow out of this thread now. It’s my opinion that you’re sounding a fire alarm where there’s barely a whiff of smoke. I’m also concerned that your focus puts the rubrics above the clergy’s efforts to minister to the people of God in adversity.
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I agree with Cor ad Cor. Unfortunately, this to me is another case of someone playing “armchair bishop” and getting concerned about things that are either reasonable in view of the pandemic, or “happened a long time ago”, or are happening on some continent he doesn’t appear to be on, etc.

I don’t find it all productive for the laity to act like they are the liturgical police over a broad area. If something is happening so distant from you that your only experience of it is through seeing a video, then you need to take a giant step back and maybe focus more on your personal holiness.
 
laudarebenedicere said:
The Body of Christ would be prone to desecration! Several years ago some bishops (especially in rural areas) mandated communion in the tongue because there has been reports of people (especially cockfighters) bringing home the consecrated hosts to feed it to their chicken so that it would win in cockfighting, others bury in their farms for plentiful harvests, and there are many other beliefs.
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Like…so many of us Catholics living in the city have roosters living in our basements (since having chicken coops in our yards is a zoning violation in our city) and we are training them for cockfighting.

Do you realize that most of us haven’t had the opportunity to receive Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament since mid-March?

I know that my bishop is a good and holy man who is zealous in his work and seeks to honor the Lord and serve his diocese well. If he announced a drive-through Sacrament of Reconciliation and a drive-through Sacrament of Holy Communion, I would not question his authority, and I would try to attend both if I was not working.
 
laudarebenedicere said:
  • Dancing has been an issue for a long time already. In the past I personally witnessed it but now, as I moved to another place I no longer saw it. But anyways, I still see broadcasted Masses with dancing. If this place was Africa then I have no right to complain, but it’s not!
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Dancing is arguably an expression of culture and inculturatuion in the liturgy is definitely not limited to Africa. That said, I’m not a fan but have better things to be concerned about. Still, I’m sure that once we’ve solved every single other problem in the Church we can look at dancing.
  • Drive-thru communion. Posts from the Social Communications Ministry of certain parishes announced drive-thru communion. A video was even uploaded showing the priests distributing the Body of Christ to people in vehicles along the streets.
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Again, personally I don’t like it because it detracts from the sacrifice of the mass - itself the most important part. Still, one priest I know who did this is best described as conservative with a capital K and would definitely take issue with it being described as an abuse.
  • Online “concelebration”. The priest who did this during the Easter Vigil Mass by the bishop posted this himself on social media.
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If he’s actually celebrating the mass, in tandem with the bishop there’s nothing wrong with it. While not strictly speaking a concelebration it is nonetheless an expression of unity between priest and bishop.
  • Vestments. I think you would agree that this has been a problem for a long time and in most (if not all) parishes. We often see priests offering Mass without the chasuble, others wear only the stole over the cassock, others wear chasuble and stole but replaced the alb with a cassock.
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There can be a whole raft of reasons and again while not strictly by the book it’s really not that much of an issue.

I often hear the complaint “why doesn’t the bishop do something” but nobody every actually says what it is they’d like the bishop to do? Sadly, obedience isn’t what it once was and there’s a limit to what a bishop can do to enforce his will without resorting to the nuclear options. Sometimes the best thing to do is to do nothing at all otherwise small problems (like whether or not a priest wears a chasuble) can easily become bigger ones. Most if the time, it’s just not worth the aggravation nor is it something whcih warrants removing someone who, for all his liturgical misdemeanors, might actually be a good man and well loved by his people.
 
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