How should an agnostic live?

[VociMike]

I have heard it said that agnostics don’t really live as though they didn’t know (couldn’t know) if there was a God or not. They really live, almost without exception, as though there is no God. So I was wondering, if an agnostic believes that it is not or cannot be known whether there is a God or not, how should an agnostic live. Should he (she) take into account the possibility (if not certainty) of everlasting life with God in heaven, and OTOH of everlasting hell?

I suppose this is just a reformulation of Pascal’s Wager in question form, but directed specifically at those who do not deny the existence of God but who claim they do not or cannot know. Agnostics, how should you live if God is even a possibility?

 

[Ahimsa]

Which God?

 

[Suat]

I know quite a few agnostics who live as deists. The problem with living as though there is a personal god is which god do you hedge your bets with? Regardless of which one you chose, someone is always condemning you to hell .

 

[VociMike]

Which God?

The obvious answer would be, whichever God would have the biggest positive and/or negative impact on your afterlife if that God existed.

 

[VociMike]

I know quite a few agnostics who live as deists. The problem with living as though there is a personal god is which god do you hedge your bets with? Regardless of which one you chose, someone is always condemning you to hell .

Even the phrase “hedge your bets” suggests that the person doesn’t really believe that God’s existence may be possible. Which again would support the notion that agnostics actually live as though they were atheists.

When you say some agnostics live as deists, what exactly does that mean?

 

[Ahimsa]

The obvious answer would be, whichever God would have the biggest positive and/or negative impact on your afterlife if that God existed.

Ah, well, in other words, the most threatening God, which, for me, would be the God who threatened me with watching episodes of “America’s Top Model” for all eternity.

 

[Mirdath]

Agnostic checking in

I am not particularly concerned with the afterlife. I think it likeliest that death results in a simple dirt-nap, so I do not concern myself with the question of how best to get into one of however many paradises, escape samsara for nirvana, become god of my own planet, or other modes of keeping on after death.

The thing is, if I did take into account the possibility of all those different afterlives and try equally to get into each, I wouldn’t be able to. Some of them have contradictory or exclusive entry requirements anyway. And the sheer effort I’d have to expend – no way I could do that without dropping dead within a week! And then what good would all that worrying do, since I wouldn’t have had time to get set up for whichever the extant afterlife proved to be!

So I do not worry about an afterlife. Instead I do as well as I can on this earth, serving others and making what good I can for everyone else and myself. So basically my ‘philosophy of life’ if you will is this: live well, do good, help others, and die with grace and dignity.

If I’m not right about what happens after death, I’ll see who is when it happens. I’m eternally curious that way

*all subject to extensive change in the event of a disembodied angelic hand writing ‘hey you, I exist, get over here already and let’s talk’ on my wall in letters of fire or something

 

[Suat]

Even the phrase “hedge your bets” suggests that the person doesn’t really believe that God’s existence may be possible. Which again would support the notion that agnostics actually live as though they were atheists.

I would think that if the agnostic was actually an atheist, then he or she would not bother hedging bets.

When you say some agnostics live as deists, what exactly does that mean?

By this I mean that some agnostics I know go to worship services. Normally the services they chose are along the lines of Universal Unitarianism, but I have known a few to attend services of other religions or to find a worship service of a random religion each time.

 

[Ahimsa]

By this I mean that some agnostics I know go to worship services. Normally the services they chose are along the lines of Universal Unitarianism, but I have known a few to attend services of other religions or to find a worship service of a random religion each time.

You mean they flip coins – if ‘heads’, then off to the Episcopalians; if ‘tails’, then we go Lutheran?:bigyikes:

 

[VociMike]

Ah, well, in other words, the most threatening God, which, for me, would be the God who threatened me with watching episodes of “America’s Top Model” for all eternity.

Why not the most “rewarding” God? Why immediately think negative?

But really, your answer affirms what I read, which is that agnostics (I am assuming you are one) actually don’t live as though they didn’t know the truth about the existence of God, but rather live as though there were no God. And I don’t understand that.

 

[Suat]

You mean they flip coins – if ‘heads’, then off to the Episcopalians; if ‘tails’, then we go Lutheran?:bigyikes:

Why limit the coin flipping to Christian religions?

 

[VociMike]

I would think that if the agnostic was actually an atheist, then he or she would not bother hedging bets.

But if the person actually considered as possible that everlasting hell or everlasting heaven might be a possibility, they wouldn’t even talk in terms of “hedging bets”. If, for example, one were forced to reach into one of three boxes, one which was empty, one which had a deadly snake, and one which had 100 million dollars, would one really be so blithe as to think in terms of “hedging bets”? Or would one be intently (even deadly) serious about the whole question?

By this I mean that some agnostics I know go to worship services. Normally the services they chose are along the lines of Universal Unitarianism, but I have known a few to attend services of other religions or to find a worship service of a random religion each time.

Interesting. Why do you suppose they do this?

 

[Ahimsa]

Why not the most “rewarding” God? Why immediately think negative?

But really, your answer affirms what I read, which is that agnostics (I am assuming you are one) actually don’t live as though they didn’t know the truth about the existence of God, but rather live as though there were no God. And I don’t understand that.

Nope, I’m not agnostic. (I guess that would make me ‘gnostic’, technically speaking.)

But I actually believe many agnostics do live as if God exists. My impression is that many people – more men than women – go to church, not because they are convinced that God exists, but because their spouses go, or because they want their children to go to church.

 

[Ahimsa]

Why limit the coin flipping to Christian religions?

Don’t you know? You flip coins for Christian churches, but you draw straws for Muslim mosques, and do rock-paper-scissors for Buddhist temples.

 

[Suat]

But if the person actually considered as possible that everlasting hell or everlasting heaven might be a possibility, they wouldn’t even talk in terms of “hedging bets”. If, for example, one were forced to reach into one of three boxes, one which was empty, one which had a deadly snake, and one which had 100 million dollars, would one really be so blithe as to think in terms of “hedging bets”? Or would one be intently (even deadly) serious about the whole question?

From my atheistic point of view, regardless of which religion you chose to believe in, there is at least one other religion that will condemn you to hell. If you are unsure whether or not God exists, it is (nearly) impossible to pick the correct religion. That makes picking one sort of pointless, no? If you are forced to pick one, then you try to pick one that will lessen any future problems.

Interesting. Why do you suppose they do this?

They could be looking for answers, maybe they are hoping that one of the services will ‘feel’ right. Or they could simply be interested in learning about different religions and their religious practices.

 

[VociMike]

Agnostic checking in

OK

I don’t know if this is relevant to my question, but what is it that makes you decide to be agnostic rather than atheist?

I am not particularly concerned with the afterlife. I think it likeliest that death results in a simple dirt-nap, so I do not concern myself with the question of how best to get into one of however many paradises, escape samsara for nirvana, become god of my own planet, or other modes of keeping on after death.

Interesting. So you have (explicitly or implicitly) assigned a low probability to the existence of God. I suspect that most agnostics do the same. What is it that prevents you from making that low probability a zero probability?

The thing is, if I did take into account the possibility of all those different afterlives and try equally to get into each, I wouldn’t be able to. Some of them have contradictory or exclusive entry requirements anyway. And the sheer effort I’d have to expend – no way I could do that without dropping dead within a week! And then what good would all that worrying do, since I wouldn’t have had time to get set up for whichever the extant afterlife proved to be!

This almost sounds like “decision exhaustion”.

So I do not worry about an afterlife. Instead I do as well as I can on this earth, serving others and making what good I can for everyone else and myself. So basically my ‘philosophy of life’ if you will is this: live well, do good, help others, and die with grace and dignity.

If I’m not right about what happens after death, I’ll see who is when it happens. I’m eternally curious that way

OK, fair enough (since my purpose here is not to convince agnostics to become Christian, but to find out why they behave as they do).

*all subject to extensive change in the event of a disembodied angelic hand writing ‘hey you, I exist, get over here already and let’s talk’ on my wall in letters of fire or something

How likely would you be to believe it, do you think?

 

[VociMike]

From my atheistic point of view, regardless of which religion you chose to believe in, there is at least one other religion that will condemn you to hell.

Do you know for a fact that this is actually true? I don’t think I know that for a fact.

 

[Mirdath]

I don’t know if this is relevant to my question, but what is it that makes you decide to be agnostic rather than atheist?

As I keep repeating in other threads about varying degrees of theism, it’s impossible to prove a negative

Atheism is a belief just as much as theism; both of them say ‘the universe is such-and-such a way’. While I find far less evidence supports theism, I cannot discount the possibility entirely – there’s always that chance.

Interesting. So you have (explicitly or implicitly) assigned a low probability to the existence of God. I suspect that most agnostics do the same. What is it that prevents you from making that low probability a zero probability?

Again, can’t prove a negative

This almost sounds like “decision exhaustion”.

It would be! As a frightened agnostic, remember, I wouldn’t have any idea which religion is right about the afterlife – though I could probably be safer if I got Marduk worship, Osiris worship, Zoroastrianism, and Judaism first since they’re older, and saved Wicca, the Church of the Subgenius, Discordianism, and several hundred Protestant splinter sects for last (but someone might’ve had a revelation of the actual Truth only 30 years ago…!).

Still, we’re talking about thousands upon thousands of different religions. My current knowledge is only so much – I’d have to study most of them fairly thoroughly, read the holy texts, figure out how to get into paradise or whatever the good side of the afterlife is. And even then, covering my bases with one religion could erase my chances with another!

If I sacrifice to Marduk I offend the Zoroastrians, the Jews and the Christians; same with Osiris. If I attend a Protestant service and profess Jesus as my lord and savior I’m once again out with the Jews – and possibly some of the other Protestant groups. If I draw a magic circle and meditate the Christians and Jews would take grievous exception. And if I’m worrying and running around this much, I’m obviously in dire straits with the Subgenii due to my now-nonexistent Slack!

Simply put, that kind of effort just isn’t possible for a human being with a normal lifespan.

How likely would you be to believe it, do you think?

Honestly, that’s one of those questions that can’t truly be answered until it happens Here’s how I think it’d go though. My first reaction would be to see who put acid in my tea; failing that, get my head checked; failing that, sleep on it and if I see the letters still burning on the wall the next morning… I’d definitely be considering belief in something a very strong possibility.

 

[Suat]

Do you know for a fact that this is actually true? I don’t think I know that for a fact.

There are plenty of religions that teach that you must believe like them in order to escape hell, both past and present. Most conservative Christians groups think that you either need to be either Christian or a follower of their particular branch of Christianity in order to make it to heaven. If you want to be more specific, southern baptists hold that you must accept Jesus as your lord and savior in order escape hell. Mithraism teaches that you must accept Mithras in order to achieve the same end, while Gnostic Christians believe that only a select few will make it to heaven. The rest will get a direct pass to hell. Luckily, not every religion believes in a burning hell ruled over by Satan.