How should Catholics deal with Protestants? The early church said not to associate but the doctrine has changed? (OP reached new poster limit for 7/10

[PrisonerOfChrist]

I’m a recent convert to Catholicism, so I have some questions about how I should treat my Protestant family and friends. Even my favorite band is made up of Protestants! Now, I know that Vatican II states that Protestants are “separated brethren”, but this goes against most of church history, for example Athanisius states that if someone isn’t a part of the visible Catholic church, they have no right to call themselves a Christian. It really worries me that I’ll have to leave my family and friends (and I’d prefer to keep listening to that band as well). Please help me! Is it a sin to associate with a Protestant?

Although I haven’t read what Athanasius wrote, I’m sure it would make sense in it’s context. Most likely referring to a discipline requirement according to the issue at the time. It most certainly does not pertain to the deposit of faith i.e. eternal unchangeable doctrine.

As mentioned, Protestants are our separated brethren. Key word “Brethren”.

Then John said in reply, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company.” Jesus said to him, “Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” - Luke 9:49-20

 

[guanophore]

You agree that the magisterium is composed of fallible men. Those same fallible men teach that in matters of teaching faith and morals they are infallible. Do you not see the problem with this?

No. The Church belongs to Jesus, and it is He who is infallible in teaching. He has promised to lead His Church into “all Truth”. What you are claiming is that the sinfulness of fallible men is more powerful than God.

Its circular reasoning.

I am sure it seems that way to those who do not perceive that Jesus is Head of His Church, and that he is able and willing to keep His promises.

the Roman Church shall reap what sins it has sown as will all such institutions and individuals.

It seems you are eager to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Accuser of the Brethren.

Why is it that you don’t doubt the infallibility of scripture?

Scripture cannot be infallible. It has no will.

I don’t know how the conversation got so sidetracked

Setarcos strikes again!

 

[kainosktisis]

Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps the word I was looking for was inerrant rather than infallible.

 

[rinnie]

You should treat them the way you always have with Love and Respect. The Pope teaches that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ united by our Baptism. I have never heard the Church teaching that if a person is not perfectly united to the RCC they are not Christian. I think you misunderstand the teaching of our faith

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

I agree with all you have presented above and wondered this myself from the very first OP post.However, I was reluctant to enter in the discussion for it appears I may be a HERETIC ! Surely I have no right to discussion.

Sadly, I do agree that Catholics seem to have more liberty on this site to say such things.

The fact that you have espoused doctrines that separate you from unity with the One Church founded by Christ does not mean that you don’t get to have a say! Especially here, in the non-Catholic subforum.

If we are unable to explore and discuss that which separates us, how will we ever achieve the unity His Heart desires?

We simply won’t ever if love is not our motivating factor. If one side considers the other as Swine there is no hope.

 

[TC3033]

I was with you for about 2 sentences…

OP – (whom hasn’t been back in however long…) My wife “dealt” with this protestant by marrying him…in the Catholic church ¯_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We simply won’t ever if love is not our motivating factor. If one side considers the other as Swine there is no hope.

“Swine” is as “swine” does. A person with an earnest desire to discuss or maybe even find common ground, who shows tolerance and respect even if they do not wish to convert, is one thing. My husband was a Protestant, but he wasn’t a “swine”, and neither was anyone in his entire family.

Someone who comes onto a Catholic forum to basically badger people and try to sway them from their beliefs, rather than accepting with respect the answers they receive, is a different story. There’s no point in wasting time in discussions with such people, especially when they show the same pattern over a long period of time in their posting behavior.

I’ve observed several kinds of Protestants (and non-Catholics in general) on this forum:

1. The ones who earnestly wish to engage in civil discussion because they wish to better understand Catholicism or are struggling with some apologetics issue. These are the ones who to my mind are welcome additions to the forum.
2. The ones who seem to be here mostly to take potshots at the Catholic faith or make borderline (sometimes crossing the line) insults that we’re all supposed to just let go by or else we’re being “uncharitable”.
3. Those who have an agenda to try to weaken Catholics in their faith or proselytize their own view on multiple threads, and often by sending PMs as well.

Each group to me deserves, and usually gets, a different response. In the case of groups 2 and 3, I’m not sure why they’re even allowed on this forum, but I don’t make the rules.

 

[Wannano]

How should Catholics deal with protestants?
We should smile in their company to show how compassionate we are. Whenever their inferior theology comes up in conversation, just either put on the snooze button or check your phone for any new messages.

Sadly your answer here shows the common Catholic attitude that has developed that to me is totally unChristlike. Sure, smile at us to our face and behind our backs make faces. That is sure to convince others how compassionate and loving you are. Even fellow Catholics watching those actions know well deep inside themselves that you are being phony. To suggest the snooze button or to ficticiously check your phone in order for you to not have to relate to someone who you have judged to have “inferior” theology or understandings just proves a hypocritical and condescending spirit that comes not from Christ but from the Devil himself. Without love, even Catholics are a sounding gong and a clanging symbol.

But then love isn’t something you can just pretend you have. If you really have it, the person you are smiling at will know it.

 

[guanophore]

Thank you for the clarification. Perhaps the word I was looking for was inerrant rather than infallible.

I knew what you meant.

It is a sticking point for me, because Protestants changed this doctrine during the Reformation. We all agree the Scriptures are inspired and inerrant, but when Luther decided to replace the Church with the authority of the Scriptures, he forced them into a role they were never meant to play. The Scriptures are a authorative, but were never meant to be separated from the Church that produced them. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura, claiming the Scriptures are “infallible” (make their own decisions) has caused massive splintering.

 

[guanophore]

We simply won’t ever if love is not our motivating factor. If one side considers the other as Swine there is no hope.

I agree, and I hope you won’t think that one person trampling the pearls into the mud represents all (or in this case any) Protestants.

There are Catholics who trample the pearls also, but they do not represent the CC.

The particular pearl trampler I was addressing is actually not interested in unity.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Um, I think goodcatholic may have been making a satirical joke. He does that.

Also, don’t forget the Protestants who come on here and read posts and then make responses basically dismissing Catholic teaching, saying that it’s no wonder people don’t want to be Catholics if we teach such ridiculous or unrealistic (to them) things, or making remarks about how they have to bite their tongue to keep from telling us exactly what they think of us. One of them was on here a day ago telling us how their Protestant church basically “allows” Catholics to think that we are the one holy and apostolic church, like their Protestant church is the all-knowing parent tolerating the cranky, wrong toddlers.

It goes both ways…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The particular pearl trampler I was addressing is actually not interested in unity.

They have decamped to the “Favorite Prayers” thread where they are now putting down the idea of Catholic recited prayers.

 

[deMontfort]

Scripture cannot be infallible. It has no will.

A lot of people get “infallible” and “Inerrant” confused. The result is they get used (incorrectly) interchangeably with each other.

 

[TigerLily-1]

I’m fairly certain @goodcatholic’s post is meant to be understood as humor.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

We simply won’t ever if love is not our motivating factor. If one side considers the other as Swine there is no hope.

“Swine” is as “swine” does. A person with an earnest desire to discuss or maybe even find common ground, who shows tolerance and respect even if they do not wish to convert, is one thing. My husband was a Protestant, but he wasn’t a “swine”, and neither was anyone in his entire family.

Someone who comes onto a Catholic forum to basically badger people and try to sway them from their beliefs, rather than accepting with respect the answers they receive, is a different story. There’s no point in wasting time in discussions with such people, especially when they show the same pattern over a long period of time in their posting behavior.

I’ve observed several kinds of Protestants (and non-Catholics in general) on this forum:

1. The ones who earnestly wish to engage in civil discussion because they wish to better understand Catholicism or are struggling with some apologetics issue. These are the ones who to my mind are welcome additions to the forum.
2. The ones who seem to be here mostly to take potshots at the Catholic faith or make borderline (sometimes crossing the line) insults that we’re all supposed to just let go by or else we’re being “uncharitable”.
3. Those who have an agenda to try to weaken Catholics in their faith or proselytize their own view on multiple threads, and often by sending PMs as well.

Each group to me deserves, and usually gets, a different response. In the case of groups 2 and 3, I’m not sure why they’re even allowed on this forum, but I don’t make the rules.

Hi Tis bear, I think I understand. I realize it is a Catholic forum but it has included a non-Catholic section. I have mostly restrained myself from responding in the other sections because I feel it is not my turf. However, in your groups 2 and 3 above, replace the word Catholic with the word Protestant and you will understand how I feel about my experience many times here in the non-Catholic section.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

However, in your groups 2 and 3 above, replace the word Catholic with the word Protestant and you will understand how I feel about my experience many times here in the non-Catholic section.

If people are treating you in that way, then I don’t approve of it either and I am sure that others on the forum would join me in my disapproval.

Unfortunately a lot goes on “behind the scenes” of the forum that we are usually not at liberty to discuss because it is frowned upon to talk about other posters or to discuss the contents of private PMs.

 

[o_mlly]

Athanisius states that if someone isn’t a part of the visible Catholic church, they have no right to call themselves a Christian.

At the time (~ 325 AD), Athanasius taught against Arius, the heretic. The only Christian church at that time was the Catholic church. The Arians, denying Christ’s divinity, were not Christians and Athanasius stated the obvious. Protestants who believe in Christ’s divinity, unlike Arians, are our Christian brothers.

The Catholic church and her sacraments are the ordinary means of salvation. But out Lord certainly can, and probably does, use extraordinary means as the Father wills all men to come to salvation.

 

[Wannano]

I’m fairly certain @goodcatholic’s post is meant to be understood as humor.

Hopefully you are right, otherwise it bothers me greatly. I once was chastised by a poster quite severely for my ill attempt at humor…once I was finished sulking I realized his suggestion to use emoji to convey the aspect of humor was right.

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

We simply won’t ever if love is not our motivating factor. If one side considers the other as Swine there is no hope.

I agree, and I hope you won’t think that one person trampling the pearls into the mud represents all (or in this case any) Protestants.

There are Catholics who trample the pearls also, but they do not represent the CC.

The particular pearl trampler I was addressing is actually not interested in unity.

If you are talking about who I think you are I can relate, however, I truthfully was looking forward to the answers to a couple of things but all got thrown out in the wash. Maybe another time!

 

[TigerLily-1]

I really believe it was his attempt to make a light-hearted comment on the OP. That particular poster often posts messages with that style of “ironic” type of humor, which is often misunderstood.

An emoji would certainly have helped!