How should Catholics view other Christian Traditions

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David1223

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I am a reverting Catholic – I began my journey Home about 2 months ago coming from Evangelical Protestantism – and I am having trouble knowing how to view Christian Traditions that are non-Catholic.

In my reversion, I am coming to deep conclusions that the Roman Catholic Church truly is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church that Jesus founded on Peter. I am also beginning to have faith in this Church and accepting and seeking to understand these “hard” doctrines like Purgatory and Praying to Mary.

All the while, I am trying to understand how to view other traditions of Christianity. I currently go to Moody Bible Institute (I am not going next semester, because I am reverting to Catholicism) and I am surrounded by mostly really nice people that really love Jesus and God. I hear about amazing testimonies of God bringing people to the knowledge of His Son Jesus and of people being helped by receiving food and other necessities… all coming from an Evangelical Protestant Tradition. What does God think about all of this? Does He think, “It doesn’t matter what tradition my Children adhere to, all that matters is that they seek to worship me and love me in Spirit and in Truth”? Or does He think, “I am seeking to draw them closer to me through the Church that I have founded but they keep resisting; I recognize their good works in my Name, but I am displeased that they reject those who are my true ambassadors”?

Any help that you all could send my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
I won’t presume to speak for God, but I’d think it’d be the second…with some disclaimer or clarification:

“*I am seeking to draw them closer to me through the Church that I have founded but they keep resisting *[or maybe they are NOT resisting…maybe they don’t understand the Church Christ established, or have a view of “Church” that they firmly believe is right, despite some inconsistencies]; I recognize their good works in my Name, but I am displeased that they reject those who are my true ambassadors.[or maybe they DON’T reject, *per se, His true ambassadors, they simply believe those people are wrong and are firmly convicted in this belief…and hopefully they will seek out to find whether these beliefs are indeed right or wrong].”

All the good that we do can be pleasing to God when we are seeking to serve Him. The key, I believe, is in seeking out Truth wherever it leads us. For some, they may firmly believe they have the Truth and it has never occurred to them to seek answers in the Catholic Church. It is to those that we must reach out. Others on the other end of the spectrum might outright reject the Church simply because it is “Catholic” regardless of whether they would otherwise agree or not…and I’m not sure that these people could actually “serve” Christ, per se, while outright rejecting the Truth of His Church. If a person is truly seeking Truth while sevring Him, then I imagine that this service would pleasing to God.
 
David1223 said:
I am a reverting Catholic – I began my journey Home about 2 months ago coming from Evangelical Protestantism – and I am having trouble knowing how to view Christian Traditions that are non-Catholic.

In my reversion, I am coming to deep conclusions that the Roman Catholic Church truly is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church that Jesus founded on Peter. I am also beginning to have faith in this Church and accepting and seeking to understand these “hard” doctrines like Purgatory and Praying to Mary.

All the while, I am trying to understand how to view other traditions of Christianity. I currently go to Moody Bible Institute (I am not going next semester, because I am reverting to Catholicism) and I am surrounded by mostly really nice people that really love Jesus and God. I hear about amazing testimonies of God bringing people to the knowledge of His Son Jesus and of people being helped by receiving food and other necessities… all coming from an Evangelical Protestant Tradition. What does God think about all of this? Does He think, “It doesn’t matter what tradition my Children adhere to, all that matters is that they seek to worship me and love me in Spirit and in Truth”? Or does He think, “I am seeking to draw them closer to me through the Church that I have founded but they keep resisting; I recognize their good works in my Name, but I am displeased that they reject those who are my true ambassadors”?

Any help that you all could send my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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God will not quench whatever fire of faith might be burning within our hearts, even if we have our theology wrong. When I converted from Pentecostalism I too wondered how it could be that so many could have such faith without knowing Christ’s one, true Church. But, Jesus told us that “the Spirit goes where he wills.” Anyone who opens his heart to God’s grace God will give him grace. It would be best if they had the fullness of truth, of course, but God judges us according to what we know, what we do with what we know and what we do with the grace has given us.

I cite the incident of the disciplines drawing Jesus’ attention to some men who were not of their company who were casting out demons in Jesus’ name:

Mk. 9[38] John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.”
[39] But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.”

Having some of the truth may make them long for all of the truth. It did me. When I was still Pentecostal I could not be content until God led me into the fullness of his truth even if “Gulp!” it meant becoming a Catholic. And here I am. 😃
 
David1223 said:
I am a reverting Catholic – I began my journey Home about 2 months ago coming from Evangelical Protestantism – and I am having trouble knowing how to view Christian Traditions that are non-Catholic.

In my reversion, I am coming to deep conclusions that the Roman Catholic Church truly is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church that Jesus founded on Peter. I am also beginning to have faith in this Church and accepting and seeking to understand these “hard” doctrines like Purgatory and Praying to Mary.

All the while, I am trying to understand how to view other traditions of Christianity. I currently go to Moody Bible Institute (I am not going next semester, because I am reverting to Catholicism) and I am surrounded by mostly really nice people that really love Jesus and God. I hear about amazing testimonies of God bringing people to the knowledge of His Son Jesus and of people being helped by receiving food and other necessities… all coming from an Evangelical Protestant Tradition. What does God think about all of this? Does He think, “It doesn’t matter what tradition my Children adhere to, all that matters is that they seek to worship me and love me in Spirit and in Truth”? Or does He think, “I am seeking to draw them closer to me through the Church that I have founded but they keep resisting; I recognize their good works in my Name, but I am displeased that they reject those who are my true ambassadors”?

Any help that you all could send my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Even those who are not Catholic are still in an imperfect communion with the One Church. So we should not be surprised to see them still doing much good. They’ve got a lot right even if they have some of it wrong.

You might read the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism. That pretty much sums up how the Catholic Church views Herself in relation to other ecclesial communities.
 
Della said:
God will not quench whatever fire of faith might be burning within our hearts, even if we have our theology wrong. When I converted from Pentecostalism I too wondered how it could be that so many could have such faith without knowing Christ’s one, true Church. But, Jesus told us that “the Spirit goes where he wills.” Anyone who opens his heart to God’s grace God will give him grace. It would be best if they had the fullness of truth, of course, but God judges us according to what we know, what we do with what we know and what we do with the grace has given us.

I cite the incident of the disciplines drawing Jesus’ attention to some men who were not of their company who were casting out demons in Jesus’ name:

Mk. 9[38] John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.”
[39] But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.”

Having some of the truth may make them long for all of the truth. It did me. When I was still Pentecostal I could not be content until God led me into the fullness of his truth even if “Gulp!” it meant becoming a Catholic. And here I am. 😃
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👍 😃
 
I try to view other Christians with respect on the basis that they are seeking Christ. Okay, I do feel a little sad at what I think they are missing out on, but have to admit that there have been a few times when I would like to transplant a little of what they have into our Diocese.
 
Della said:
God will not quench whatever fire of faith might be burning within our hearts, even if we have our theology wrong. When I converted from Pentecostalism I too wondered how it could be that so many could have such faith without knowing Christ’s one, true Church. But, Jesus told us that “the Spirit goes where he wills.” Anyone who opens his heart to God’s grace God will give him grace. It would be best if they had the fullness of truth, of course, but God judges us according to what we know, what we do with what we know and what we do with the grace has given us.

I cite the incident of the disciplines drawing Jesus’ attention to some men who were not of their company who were casting out demons in Jesus’ name:

Mk. 9[38] John said to him, “Teacher, we saw a man casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him, because he was not following us.”
[39] But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him; for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon after to speak evil of me.”
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Hi Della, 👋

I’ve always thought of those spoken of there, as the Gentiles who weren’t actively being evangelized at this time.

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt 10&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-27598b”)]

Consider how Jesus addressed the following issue. Sounds pretty rough.

Mt 15:22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”e] 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

but the Gentiles would ultimately be brought into the Church.by Peter. 🙂

Acts 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Now we need to get non Catholics into the Church. Otherwise they remain outside the Church looking in.

:twocents:
 
steve_b said:
Hi Della, 👋

I’ve always thought of those spoken of there, as the Gentiles who weren’t actively being evangelized at this time.

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt 10&version=RSVCE#fen-RSVCE-27598b”)]

Consider how Jesus addressed the following issue. Sounds pretty rough.

Mt 15:22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”e] 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

but the Gentiles would ultimately be brought into the Church.by Peter. 🙂
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The reason Jesus said these things is because his mission was first to the house of Israel because they were God’s chosen people, not because the Gentiles were outsiders/unworthies that he didn’t want brought into the kingdom, if that’s what you’re saying. Peter only brought in the Gentiles because God commanded him to do so. God had always planned to redeem all peoples everywhere. But Jesus’ ministry before his crucifixion was to his own people first.
Acts 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Now we need to get non Catholics into the Church. Otherwise they remain outside the Church looking in.

:twocents:
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We can certainly present the Gospel to them but we cannot force anyone to enter the Church. And all who are baptized with the same baptism as the Church, the Trinitarian rite, are members of the Church if imperfectly joined to her. That is Church teaching. 🙂
 
Della said:
The reason Jesus said these things is because his mission was first to the house of Israel because they were God’s chosen people, not because the Gentiles were outsiders/unworthies that he didn’t want brought into the kingdom, if that’s what you’re saying.
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How do you interpret Jesus saying to the Canaanite woman when she asked for help, It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”
D:
Peter only brought in the Gentiles because God commanded him to do so. God had always planned to redeem all peoples everywhere. But Jesus’ ministry before his crucifixion was to his own people first.
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As I said the Gentiles weren’t on the schedule then
D:
We can certainly present the Gospel to them but we cannot force anyone to enter the Church.
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I didn’t suggest it.
D:
And all who are baptized with the same baptism as the Church, the Trinitarian rite, are members of the Church if imperfectly joined to her. That is Church teaching. 🙂
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They are outside the Catholic Church. They are not in the Church.
 
We see our seperate brethren as our seperate brethren because they do not have the fullness of our Cathilc faith. God does work in whom He wills. We do good works not for any salvation or merit but out of love for God. So if one does good works out of Love for God , God knows our intent, To us it is like looking through a glass that is dirty, they share some of the faith but not all. But if they do good God Knows and He can work in whom He wants.
 
steve_b said:
How do you interpret Jesus saying to the Canaanite woman when she asked for help, It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.”

You answered your own question in your next statement, which I bolded. 🙂
As I said the Gentiles weren’t on the schedule then.
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David1223 said:
I am a reverting Catholic – I began my journey Home about 2 months ago coming from Evangelical Protestantism – and I am having trouble knowing how to view Christian Traditions that are non-Catholic.

In my reversion, I am coming to deep conclusions that the Roman Catholic Church truly is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church that Jesus founded on Peter. I am also beginning to have faith in this Church and accepting and seeking to understand these “hard” doctrines like Purgatory and Praying to Mary.

All the while, I am trying to understand how to view other traditions of Christianity. I currently go to Moody Bible Institute (I am not going next semester, because I am reverting to Catholicism) and I am surrounded by mostly really nice people that really love Jesus and God. I hear about amazing testimonies of God bringing people to the knowledge of His Son Jesus and of people being helped by receiving food and other necessities… all coming from an Evangelical Protestant Tradition. What does God think about all of this? Does He think, “It doesn’t matter what tradition my Children adhere to, all that matters is that they seek to worship me and love me in Spirit and in Truth”? Or does He think, “I am seeking to draw them closer to me through the Church that I have founded but they keep resisting; I recognize their good works in my Name, but I am displeased that they reject those who are my true ambassadors”?

Any help that you all could send my way would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...
This is how I viewe it. God with His Almighty power can bring forth people steeped in the greatest darkness. He did this for me and I know He dose it for others provided they accept His offering to leave everything and follow Him. Once given the gift of Faith; the Holy Catholic Faith, I believe God expects us to adhere to it with all of our mind, heart, body and soul since it IS Him. Protestantism is not the fulfillment of the Christian Faith, therefore I found no reason to keep any traditions which it holds. I know that in Catholicism there can be found all of the perfect devotions and traditions which please Jesus Christ perfectly. Now I’m not saying that the actions taken by Protestants are not done out of a spirit of love for Christ or that Christ does not view them with love since He knows their hearts and knows the ones who are doing these things because they truly do not know any better. What I am saying is for those who do know better, I believe God expects us to follow the path which leads to a greater understanding of Him and to let go of all of the substandard paths by which we traveled previously where Christ was obscure and hidden.
 
The simple Calvinism that influenced much of American Christianity and the historical suspicion of European influence (the Monroe doctrine, for example) helped create a very anti-Catholic history for this country. The Moody Bible Institute has been around a long time- it was founded, attended, and supported by many who were a part of that anti-Catholicism. They are well-established, and they probably have more resources to defend themselves (and help their students defend them) than you have to effectively take them on. Be careful. Right now, just focus on your interior life. Study the Catholic Faith, and allow God to build your foundation in it before you try to build one for someone else.
 
Della said:
No, they are imperfectly joined to the Church, not outside it. They may not partake of the sacraments (unless they receive permission of the bishop) because they do not hold to all the Church teaches, but they are not “outside” the Church. If they received the same baptism we receive, they are part of the Church but not in full communion with her.
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If they are not outside the Church, why then do they need permission from a bishop to receive the sacraments **in **the Church?

The point is they ARE outside the Church.
 
steve_b said:
If they are not outside the Church, why then do they need permission from a bishop to receive the sacraments in the Church?

The point is they ARE outside the Church.
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Because the are not in full communion, but not because they are “outside” the Church. Their baptism makes them part of Christ’s body, but not fully in communion with the doctrines and disciplines of the Church. Permission can be given by the bishop to be, for example, married in a Protestant church with a Catholic witness (usually a priest or deacon) or to receive the Eucharist. Non-Christians cannot receive the Eucharist since they truly are outside the Church because they have not been baptized. If you have any further questions I suggest you talk to your priest so we don’t take the thread off topic.
 
Della said:
Because the are not in full communion, but not because they are “outside” the Church. Their baptism makes them part of Christ’s body, but not fully in communion with the doctrines and disciplines of the Church. Permission can be given by the bishop to be, for example, married in a Protestant church with a Catholic witness (usually a priest or deacon) or to receive the Eucharist. Non-Christians cannot receive the Eucharist since they truly are outside the Church because they have not been baptized. If you have any further questions I suggest you talk to your priest so we don’t take the thread off topic.
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When Protestants leave Protestantism and become Catholic, they actually come INTO the Church. One doesn’t come into something they are already in. due to their baptism.
 
steve_b said:
When Protestants leave Protestantism and become Catholic, they actually come INTO the Church. One doesn’t come into something they are already in. due to their baptism.
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From the Catechism:

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82
 
Della said:
From the Catechism:

1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82
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all emphasis mine ( for convenience, I numbered the points of CCC 837 )

This is the definition of a Catholic in the Catholic Church

"Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who,

  1. *]possessing the Spirit of Christ, (i.e. baptised)
    *]accept all the means of salvation given to the Church
    *]together with her entire organization,
    *]who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith,
    *]the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ,
    *]who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops.

    Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but “in body” not “in heart.” (CCC 837)

    taking that same list and applying that to validly baptised non-Catholics, see how that list changes.

    "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who,

    1. *]possessing the Spirit of Christ, (i.e. baptised)
      *]-]accept all the means of salvation given to the Church/-]
      *]-]together with her entire organization,/-]
      *]-]who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith,/-] i.e. the Catholic profession of faith
      *]-]the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, /-]
      *]-]who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops./-]

      To your point, If a person is deemed “in” the Church by virtue of valid baptism, then a validly baptised non-Catholic should be able to receive the sacraments of the Church with no problem. But that’s not the case. Why? Because they do not profess the same faith because they are not in the Church
 
steve_b said:
all emphasis mine ( for convenience, I numbered the points of CCC 837 )

This is the definition of a Catholic in the Catholic Church

"Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who,

  1. *]possessing the Spirit of Christ, (i.e. baptised)
    *]accept all the means of salvation given to the Church
    *]together with her entire organization,
    *]who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith,
    *]the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ,
    *]who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops.

    Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but “in body” not “in heart.” (CCC 837)

    taking that same list and applying that to validly baptised non-Catholics, see how that list changes.

    "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who,

    1. *]possessing the Spirit of Christ, (i.e. baptised)
      *]-]accept all the means of salvation given to the Church/-]
      *]-]together with her entire organization,/-]
      *]-]who—by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith,/-] i.e. the Catholic profession of faith
      *]-]the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion—are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, /-]
      *]-]who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops./-]

      To your point, If a person is deemed “in” the Church by virtue of valid baptism, then a validly baptised non-Catholic should be able to receive the sacraments of the Church with no problem. But that’s not the case. Why? Because they do not profess the same faith because they are not in the Church
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    1. To Della,

      If you see this,

      Taking what I said above, only in reverse, i.e. a Catholic leaving the Catholic Church for some other religion like Protestantism

      then

      http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/if-someone-leaves-the-church-for-another-religion-can-he-still-be-saved

      If Protestants are “in” the Church, regardless of stripe, by virtue of a valid baptism, then it shouldn’t matter if a Catholic, hops around through Protestantism…right? But we know the Church condemns that idea. So In effect when we test the premise, of who is in and who is outside the Church, and we see condemnations for a Catholic going in the direction of Protestantism, then how can it be said Protestants are “in” the Church?

      Also

      If a Catholic marries a validly baptised Protestant in a Protestant assembly, by a Protestant pastor, did the Catholic get married inside the Church or outside the Church

      outside…right?
 
Originally Posted by Della:
And all who are baptized with the same baptism as the Church, the Trinitarian rite, are members of the Church if imperfectly joined to her. That is Church teaching.
steve b #9
They are outside the Catholic Church. They are not in the Church.
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Such a didactic conclusion is opposed to the teaching of the Church:
“In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.

“**It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.**9] Nevertheless, the word “subsists” can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe… in the “one” Church); and this “one” Church subsists in the Catholic Church.[10]
Notes:
[9] Cf. John Paul II, Encyclical Letter Ut unum sint, 11.3: AAS 87 [1995-II] 928.
[10] Cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, 8.2.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

That the Catholic Church can be present and operative in other ecclesial communities is the reality.
 
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