How should I answer the question about death penalty?

[tee]

I was participating in the 40 days for life, praying for the unborn. One day, while praying a man came up to us and asked “Does your group support the death penalty?”.

I was a bit in a quandary and not knowing how to answer. Finally, I did make a statement that “we believe in repentance, and so no death penalty, but I can’t speak for the rest of the group”. The reason I didn’t know how to answer is because I deep down I’m not particularly against death penalty because there is a certain justice in society that must be taken place in society to keep order. At the same time I believe in the statement I made also, plus I don’t want people to undermine 40 days for life if I elaborate on my answer.

So my question is, did I do the right thing by saying that even though I’m still not sure what my stand is on the issue. Also, how should I approach this issue so I can make a decision. What is the church’s stand on this? Thanks!

 

[SMHW]

Probably the best answer is that the Catholic Church is not against the death penalty in theory. We believe the state is given such authority by God. But that the Catholic Church IS against the way the death penalty is implemented in many, if not most, circumstances. This is partly because of the possibility of errors in prosecution. But it is mainly because we don’t follow “an eye for an eye” when it comes to punishment. We, as Catholics, prefer to practice mercy.

The Catholic Church believes that killing is justified for self defense or in defense of another. The Catholic Church views capital punishment justified when it is used as a type of ‘self defense’. For some criminals, execution is the only real way to prevent further acts of murder by those criminals. (This could be murders inside a prison or it could be murders outside a prison orchestrated by the prisoner.)

But life imprisonment is to be used whenever possible. We want to allow a criminal all possible opportunities to ask for forgiveness.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Completely agree, and it is how I have tried explaining it in the past:thumbsup:

Probably the best answer is that the Catholic Church is not against the death penalty in theory. We believe the state is given such authority by God. But that the Catholic Church IS against the way the death penalty is implemented in many, if not most, circumstances. This is partly because of the possibility of errors in prosecution. But it is mainly because we don’t follow “an eye for an eye” when it comes to punishment. We, as Catholics, prefer to practice mercy.

The Catholic Church believes that killing is justified for self defense or in defense of another. The Catholic Church views capital punishment justified when it is used as a type of ‘self defense’. For some criminals, execution is the only real way to prevent further acts of murder by those criminals. (This could be murders inside a prison or it could be murders outside a prison orchestrated by the prisoner.)

But life imprisonment is to be used whenever possible. We want to allow a criminal all possible opportunities to ask for forgiveness.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Probably the best answer is that the Catholic Church is not against the death penalty in theory. But that the Catholic Church IS against the way the death penalty is implemented in many, if not most, circumstances.

SMHW,

I think that is a pretty good answer, and it is probably a prudent response in a situation like** tee** found himself in.

But, there might be some difficulties with your explanation. The killing justified in self defense or defense of another has certain prerequisites, and the death penalty imposed by the state fails to meet them. Although sometimes we talk about death penalty in terms of defense*, *it is a different animal than self-defense or defense of another. It’s too bad that they get confused.

The other problem is the idea of using the death penalty to prevent a future murder. How can you kill someone for a murder they might commit?

Thoughts?
VC

 

[embwt]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church . . .

2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically nonexistent."68

For further reading from the Catechism with regard to abortion, defense of life, etc. go to vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

God Bless you for your prayers during 40 days for life!

 

[sanctamaria17]

I’m anti-death penalty as well as anti-abortion (actually, when I say I’m pro-life, it includes everything from abortion, death penalty, euthanasia, etc to providing a better quality of life for all) so when asked, I say I’m against it.

Hehehe, I was at an anti-death penalty protest where people were also protesting abortion. A somewhat snippy reporter said to me, “If they’re so pro-life, why don’t they join you?” I told her that I was against abortion as well and that I wished we could join together (both groups of protesters, and I did invite them to join us and told them I supported their work) and she was just like, “Oh…” Hahahahaha, it was like, “Wait, you care about human rights? What is this confusion!? People can be against abortion and the death penalty too? What is this madness?!”

I believe in the importance of a consistent life ethic, with killing involved only if it can truly save someone else and not for retributive justice. So, when asked to explain my position, I just say I’m for everyone’s right to live, from conception to natural death. If there was no other way to keep others safe, then OK, execution, but if there is, then I’m against it. For the most part, life is only God’s to give and take away.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

SMHW,

I think that is a pretty good answer, and it is probably a prudent response in a situation like** tee** found himself in.

But, there might be some difficulties with your explanation. The killing justified in self defense or defense of another has certain prerequisites, and the death penalty imposed by the state fails to meet them. Although sometimes we talk about death penalty in terms of defense*, *it is a different animal than self-defense or defense of another. It’s too bad that they get confused.

The other problem is the idea of using the death penalty to prevent a future murder. How can you kill someone for a murder they might commit?

Thoughts?
VC

**
I know you weren’t asking me, but since I agree with her description I wanted to add my opinion. I believe in the death penalty in the way the Church does in the catechism… so I pretty much don’t believe in it for a civilized society with prisons etc. But for situations where adequate prisons are not available then, if the only way to protect the innocent is killing the offender then i am for it.**

 

[tee]

Thanks all,

These are really good answers. I had the difficulty because, abortion is a crime done onto an innocent child, while death penalty came about because of a crime. However, what you guys have said help me think a bit in depth about this issue. I’ll think about this with regard to all your answers. Thanks again!

 

[Lui]

Probably the best answer is that the Catholic Church is not against the death penalty in theory. We believe the state is given such authority by God. But that the Catholic Church IS against the way the death penalty is implemented in many, if not most, circumstances. This is partly because of the possibility of errors in prosecution. But it is mainly because we don’t follow “an eye for an eye” when it comes to punishment. We, as Catholics, prefer to practice mercy.

The Catholic Church believes that killing is justified for self defense or in defense of another. The Catholic Church views capital punishment justified when it is used as a type of ‘self defense’. For some criminals, execution is the only real way to prevent further acts of murder by those criminals. (This could be murders inside a prison or it could be murders outside a prison orchestrated by the prisoner.)

But life imprisonment is to be used whenever possible. We want to allow a criminal all possible opportunities to ask for forgiveness.

I like this view and totally agree with it.

To sanctamaria17: I like your signature “I said I was Catholic, I never said I was perfect”. It takes the words right out of my mouth.

 

[SMHW]

SMHW,

I think that is a pretty good answer, and it is probably a prudent response in a situation like** tee** found himself in.

But, there might be some difficulties with your explanation. The killing justified in self defense or defense of another has certain prerequisites, and the death penalty imposed by the state fails to meet them. Although sometimes we talk about death penalty in terms of defense*, *it is a different animal than self-defense or defense of another. It’s too bad that they get confused.

The other problem is the idea of using the death penalty to prevent a future murder. How can you kill someone for a murder they might commit?

Thoughts?
VC

I will have to defer to the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church as mentioned in another post in this thread. As I said, the Catholic Church allows capital punishment, in theory. As to whether or not it is possible to have a justifiable execution in practice… I just don’t know.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

SMHW,

I forgot we had already discussed this! I understand your difficulty and your position.

Hopefully things will be clarified in the future. I’d like to think they will.

VC

 

[DaveBj]

The simple explanation would be to differentiate the two by explaining that the Right to Life involves innocent human life, while the death penalty involves people who are guilty of heinous crimes. Assuming they are guilty, and those who know my stand on the issue know that’s a whole 'nother subject.

DaveBj

 

[thomfra]

So my question is, did I do the right thing by saying that even though I’m still not sure what my stand is on the issue. Also, how should I approach this issue so I can make a decision. What is the church’s stand on this? Thanks!

Well, lets face it. You lied to the man. Thus showing some level of ambiguity/hypocrisy in your argument that all life is sacred.

There is no reason whatsoever to impose the death penalty in the US.

 

[thomfra]

, “Wait, you care about human rights? What is this confusion!? People can be against abortion and the death penalty too? What is this madness?!”
.

Well this says it all… I am constantly amazed at how many anit-abortion people (totally understandable) are also quite happy to let the state put people to death…because “they deserved it”…or because “the church says its OK”…They were also part of the “let’s go invade Iraq, it’ll be great” brigade too…

 

[kage_ar]

When involved in a prayer vigil, (40 Days, Life Chain), we advise our people NOT to engage in debates like this during the vigil. There are trained counselors in place who can answer these questions. The best response if there are no counselors available is “I am here to pray right now. If you would like to join me in prayer, please do. If you wish to debate, you may contact me via…”

The death penalty stand of the Catholic Church is spelled out in the Catechism. If you had to give an answere while on the line, having a copy of the Catechism on hand would be wise.

 

[thomfra]

When involved in a prayer vigil, (40 Days, Life Chain), we advise our people NOT to engage in debates like this during the vigil. There are trained counselors in place who can answer these questions. The best response if there are no counselors available is “I am here to pray right now. If you would like to join me in prayer, please do. If you wish to debate, you may contact me via…”

The death penalty stand of the Catholic Church is spelled out in the Catechism. If you had to give an answere while on the line, having a copy of the Catechism on hand would be wise.

Debate or no debate, I should imagine that if one is to be involved in demonstrations such as this, one should have a least a basic understanding as to *why *one believes life is sacred in some cases but despensible in others.

Should need a “trained councelor” to speak on ones behalf?

 

[kage_ar]

Debate or no debate, I should imagine that if one is to be involved in demonstrations such as this, one should have a least a basic understanding as to *why *one believes life is sacred in some cases but despensible in others.

Should need a “trained councelor” to speak on ones behalf?

I am not there to debate, I am there to pray. Others are there to pray. There are people there who have committed to answering the questions, they have the resources at hand -

There are people who will not go pray at 40 Days or Life Chain because they do not want to debate. I’d rather have them there praying than staying home because they are not experienced in debate.

 

[thomfra]

I am not there to debate, I am there to pray. Others are there to pray. There are people there who have committed to answering the questions, they have the resources at hand -

There are people who will not go pray at 40 Days or Life Chain because they do not want to debate. I’d rather have them there praying than staying home because they are not experienced in debate.

The OP didn’t even know what he/she believed. And flat out lied to a person who asked a serious question. And the praying is a demonstration. that’s the entire point.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

And the praying is a demonstration. that’s the entire point.

**I thought praying was the point?

If a curious person enters a Mass and starts asking questions about Catholicism it is more than appropriate to refer them to the office instead of answering questions when you are there to worship/pray.**

 

[thomfra]

**I thought praying was the point?

If a curious person enters a Mass and starts asking questions about Catholicism it is more than appropriate to refer them to the office instead of answering questions when you are there to worship/pray.**

1. If praying is the only point, there is no reason that this has to happen across the road/outside/geographically near the clinic. If I say a prayer for you, I don’t have to come all the way to your house and sit in your lounge room (as far as I know).
2. Your second example is a case of interupting a seremoni. Not releavant.