How should I approach this matter?

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LotusCarsLtd

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Background information:

At the age of 8 my mom filed for divorce from my dad. It was a long, drawn-out, and bloody divorce that eventually resulted in my dad having to resign his job and my family descending into poverty. Even now at the age of 21 my family and I are still struggling under poverty.

During the course of the divorce my mom had made threats against my dad and us, among which she claimed she was planning to kidnap my 6 year old sister and I. This never happened, but because of this (I think) and the fact that my mom was found to be bi-polar and what-not my dad gained sole custody of my sister and I.

Later on the courts (I don’t know what led them to do this) placed my sister, father, and I under a confidentiality order stating that my mother could not know where we lived, where we went to school, what our phone numbers were, ect. She was also not allowed any contact except (I think) through monitored visitation sessions (which eventually came to an end).

Fast-forward to now:

I am now 21 and my sister is 18. We are both going to college and have reestablished contact with our mother. Not only does she have our phone numbers but she knows where we go to school. We even met with her recently before Christmas break and took her to our respective schools.

Despite the confidentiality order, I think it’s good for us to have contact again with our mom because the divorce separated us for such a long time. And I agree with my mother when she says she wasn’t in her right mind during the divorce and lost us as a result of it. I think healing is much needed here, especially since my sister and I could have suffered psychological and emotional damage due to a lack of regular contact with our mom during the formative years of our life.

Here’s the problem: as far as I know the confidentiality order against my mom still stands, but there is really no one that I know of who can or would even bother enforcing it. As I see it, it’s largely null and void at this point; I mean c’mon…it was issued when I was 8. I’m now 21 and a legal adult more than capable of making decisions on my own. And the threat of kidnapping that once existed doesn’t seem to be a threat to me anymore.

Furthermore my sister and I have been doing this behind our dad’s back. He still seems to cling to the confidentiality order, citing it often when he gets into arguments with us over various issues. If he knew what my sister and I are doing he’d go ballistic and probably change our cell phone numbers again (since we have a family-share plan and he is in control of the plan).

I personally believe that this separation from our mom was harmful and is absurd, especially considering that we are no longer children in need of protection as we once were when the confidentiality order was originally passed. I think it’s about time we start communicating with our mom again.

But I am unsure about the morality of this situation (and if it’s wrong for us to violate the confidentiality order and go behind our dad’s back) because:
  1. The order was, as far as I can tell, passed against our mom rather than against us, meaning that we wouldn’t necessarily be violating the order if we choose to go against what it says, since we were technically the “victims” who needed protection
  2. The order was passed to protect children incapable of protecting themselves and who were incapable of making their own informed decisions, which we are clearly not anymore. We are clearly the opposite now.
  3. I feel that we should communicate with our mom to promote healing and what-not, and if our dad knew he would get angry and that would simply cause problems and lead to further separation. And I don’t want to get him angry about this, since I can tell from experience that this could likely get him really angry. What’s more I think my dad is just being irrational in clinging to this old confidentiality order years after the divorce ended.
What are your thoughts here? What should I do?

Pax Tecum.
 
You are both adults. You cannot be told what you can & can’t do. Your dad could make life hard. That may be a consequince. If you can catch him in the right mood I’d talk to him first.
 
I agree. You should inform your dad what you are doing, but you have a perfect right to do it. Be prepared for your father to react emotionally.

However, if you are living with your father and he is supporting you financially, you do have some obligation to abide by his wishes. Perhaps you should arrange a meeting with your father, your sister and your Pastor to discuss the situation.

I hope that you establish a loving relationship with both your parents.
 
Hi. LotusCarsLtd,
First, re your observation that you and your sister could have suffered psychological and emotional damage because of separation from your mother, you could have suffered far worse damage from being exposed to her mental illness and behavior.

Adults have the right to make their own choices, yes, and of course, you want and need to have a relationship with your mom. However, you never should have gone behind your dad’s back to see your mom to begin with. Not because he’s necessarily right in insisting the order be kept, but out of simple respect for your dad’s love and concern. If he’d known how determined you were, he might have shed further light on the reason the confidentiality order was granted in the first place. Those orders aren’t issued without serious provocation on the part of the person they’re issued against. You are no longer children, but you’re not absolutely sure your mom isn’t the person she used to be.

It sounds like there’s a lot you don’t know about what happened and there’s certainly a lot you don’t know about your mom after all these years. Her mental illness may be controlled by drugs, but she could stop taking them or the meds could become ineffective. It happens a lot. Bi-polar disorder shouldn’t be taken lightly. You have only your mom’s word for how she’s been all these years. If you get into a situation you can’t handle with your mom, will you then go to your dad for help? You’ve put him at a disadvantage by not telling him. If he’d known from the beginning you could all have met together as a family. But what you did was, essentially, side with your mom against your dad. You didn’t say whether you contacted your mom initially or she contacted you.

Don’t continue to keep this from him. Even if he becomes furious, he needs to know. Also, familiarize yourself with bi-polar disorder and the behavior traits that are common among people who have it.
 
And make sure that you don’t get “charmed” out of your college fund or other valuables. The mentally ill and those who are abusive learn the knack of being very charming, in order to not be caught, and in order for their victims to not be believed.

Be really, really careful. Just because you are adults now, does not mean that you can’t be tricked. After all, your father was an adult when he met her, and he was tricked out of his entire life’s savings, from the sound of things.
 
Not everyone who is bi-polar is this way, but it’s one of the mental disorders where manipulativeness is common. It’s very hard to spot at first, especially when you care about the person. Those who have the disorder can become adept at arousing sympathy. From sympathy, it’s an easy springboard to other things, even deliberately causing a wedge to be driven between family members. Did your mom encourage you not to tell your dad? If so, not good. Please tell your dad and please be careful.
 
I agree with the above two posts. You and your sister are adults and if your dad gets mad that you are chosing to reconnect with your mother then that’s his problem, not yours. But it would just cause more problems than it would solve if you kept it secret from him, especially if he ultimately found out. I also agree that you should be cautious when interacting with your mother. One can be compassionate and loving while still keeping boundries.
 
jmcrae said:
And make sure that you don’t get “charmed” out of your college fund or other valuables. The mentally ill and those who are abusive learn the knack of being very charming, in order to not be caught, and in order for their victims to not be believed.

Be really, really careful. Just because you are adults now, does not mean that you can’t be tricked. After all, your father was an adult when he met her, and he was tricked out of his entire life’s savings, from the sound of things.
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I will try to be careful. I’m now a little worried since she now knows where I go to school and since she knows where I live on campus.

But as for my dad I don’t know how to tell him. From experience he’d be very likely to blow-up, which I don’t want. If anything, it might be best if I waited until after I get back to school for the spring semester that I tell him; that way I am out of the house and away from any trouble my revelation might reveal.

Please pray for my sister, father, and I. Please also pray for the reunification of my family, and pray that nothing bad happens to us since our mom now knows where we go to school and where I live on campus.
 
LotusCars,
Does your dad have a trusted friend you could talk to who could talk to your dad for you? If that isn’t possible, one of the posters mentioned your pastor. In any case, you made the decision as an adult, and unless you’re concerned that your dad would actually hurt you, you should be adult enough to talk to him about it. Yelling doesn’t count. It sounds like he might have a right to be angry with you. Tell him you made a mistake, you regret it and you want him to be involved. Dads don’t usually let their little girls down, even if they have to yell and scream a little first to make their point.

Are you afraid he’ll hurt you, cut off your funds, disinherit you or something similar? For those, you need professional assistance.
 
LotusCarsLtd said:
I will try to be careful. I’m now a little worried since she now knows where I go to school and since she knows where I live on campus.

But as for my dad I don’t know how to tell him. From experience he’d be very likely to blow-up, which I don’t want.
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Let him blow up, then. (I know, I know - I can talk - I don’t have to stand there and listen to him rant and rave, or eat cold soup and dry toast in my room all by myself, afterwards.)

He can’t protect you if he doesn’t know what’s going on. Just tell him, “Dad, please try not to get mad at me, but I have something important to tell you - I did something really dumb.”

He’ll think you’re pregnant, or that you wrecked the car - he’ll be so relieved that all you did was contact your mother, that he’ll forget all about yelling at you. 😉
 
:rotfl: Pretty funny, jmcrae and so true…or that she ran off to Vegas and got married…or flunked out of school…

LotusCars, please keep us informed, will you please? We’ll pray for you, but we’ll all be very concerned about you.
 
Your profile shows you are in Illinois.

Call these people and ask them:

illinoisprobono.org/

As I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV even, I can’t dispense legal advice. But once you turn 18, you are no longer under court order for visitation or against visitation.

I know you do have a right to go to the clerk of the court where the divorce and custody hearing was held and get a copy of the decree and any orders. In most divorce decrees and modification orders, it says something to the effect that visitation stops when the child turns 18.

Here at the ILCS statues that cover divorce.
ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2086&ChapAct=750%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=59&ChapterName=FAMILIES&ActName=Illinois+Marriage+and+Dissolution+of+Marriage+Act%2E

ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=075000050HPt%2E+IV&ActID=2086&ChapAct=750%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=59&ChapterName=FAMILIES&SectionID=63091&SeqStart=3700000&SeqEnd=5200000&ActName=Illinois+Marriage+and+Dissolution+of+Marriage+Act%2E

ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=075000050HPt%2E+V&ActID=2086&ChapAct=750%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=59&ChapterName=FAMILIES&SectionID=63103&SeqStart=6000000&SeqEnd=8300000&ActName=Illinois+Marriage+and+Dissolution+of+Marriage+Act%2E

ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2497&ChapAct=750%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B36%2F&ChapterID=59&ChapterName=FAMILIES&ActName=Uniform+Child%2DCustody+Jurisdiction+and+Enforcement+Act%2E

You can read them for yourself.
 
Can I just ask why you are doing this to your father?

I seem to be the only person on the thread who is asking it – but I feel compelled to.

As you wrote it – your mom was a million ways to crazy at the time of the divorce. She threatened to kidnap you, she was obviously not in her right mind because MOST courts to this very day grant custody to the mother . . . so on that note:

YOUR DAD PROTECTED YOU AND RAISED YOU.

Out of love, not just obligation.

Do you realize how many men just walk away from “crazy” and leave kids in the same “crazy” because they can’t deal with it anymore???

Let me be concise: you are focusing on what you “were denied” but what you were denied was actually something most children SHOULD be denied: instability, insanity, manipulation, being hid from the other parent, mind games, possibly lack of food or shelter, lack of education, lack of normalcy.

Your dad is actually a hero – IMO. He stood up and took care of you, he didn’t just say “ENOUGH” and run off. There was enough evidence here to say “no, she can’t have the kids” and a judge decreed that as true. You can’t accept it?

You said you had “supervised visits, but they just came to an end.” Well, your mom would be responsible for that business, not your dad. It takes an involved parent to want to continue visitation.

So outside of the legalities of your question, it should really be concerning the actual situation as “right” or not. No, I think you owe the man who stepped up, protected you, and raised you (and is probably PAYING for your schooling, which he doesn’t have to do, by the way) the respect to say “we want, no we NEED to talk to our mom.” If she screws you over, which will likely be the case, you’re going to need your good old dependable dad to be there to help pick up the pieces.

Lying to him is cruel. Sneaking is disrespectful. IMO your dad should know you are seeing your mom. I also understand you are young, and you are passionate about this – but for a moment of clarity I BEG YOU – take what he has to say and ingest it…

After-all, he knows your mother far better than you do.

Which is why he stepped up and protected you.

I also know you want your mommy, but not all mothers are “mommies” – please trust me on this. Tread carefully and save yourself a bit of heartache.

(As for the legalities in this follow Burbs links before going to him.)

God Bless and my prayers are with you and your sis.
 
Agree with KC above - and one thing to add…

Your dad is footing your bills (paying cell phones and what else?), if you are going to defy him, then do it when you can support yourselves.

Once you are on your own, paying your own bills, and if you still want to do away with the order, contact a lawyer.
 
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