How should I elevate an abuse?

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:confused: We have men who are not ordained clergy and women giving the homily in our parish. According to our Pastoral Administrator, when confronted, our Bishop supports this practice. I think more parishioners would complain if they knew it was an abuse. How do I elevate the issue? Do I go directly to the Vatican? Is there a document stating the process? Thank you.
 
Sue said:
:confused: We have men who are not ordained clergy and women giving the homily in our parish. According to our Pastoral Administrator, when confronted, our Bishop supports this practice. I think more parishioners would complain if they knew it was an abuse. How do I elevate the issue? Do I go directly to the Vatican? Is there a document stating the process? Thank you.

Begin with the pastor. A letter from several people works wonders, when one lone voice is often ignored. Next send the Bishop a letter if not satisfied with the pastors response. If not satisfied with the Bishops response. (always request a response by the way) Write the ArchBishop unless you are already in an Archdiocese. The next step would be the Papal Nuncio in Washington DC. Always with kindness and respect.
 
Just so happens there is a new document----Redemptionis Sacramentum
usccb.org/liturgy/documents/instructioneng.shtml#9

further clarifying the girm

**
  1. Preaching
As was already noted above, the homily on account of its importance and its nature is reserved to the Priest or Deacon during Mass.260 As regards other forms of preaching, if necessity demands it in particular circumstances, or if usefulness suggests it in special cases, lay members of Christ’s faithful may be allowed to preach in a church or in an oratory outside Mass in accordance with the norm of law.261 This may be done only on account of a scarcity of sacred ministers in certain places, in order to meet the need, and it may not be transformed from an exceptional measure into an ordinary practice, nor may it be understood as an authentic form of the advancement of the laity.262 All must remember besides that the faculty for giving such permission belongs to the local Ordinary, and this as regards individual instances; this permission is not the competence of anyone else, even if they are Priests or Deacons. **scroll down the document and near the end remedies are listed. But please talk to your pastor or administrator before you go over his head.

SuZ
 
Br. Rich SFO:
Begin with the pastor. A letter from several people works wonders, when one lone voice is often ignored. Next send the Bishop a letter if not satisfied with the pastors response. If not satisfied with the Bishops response. (always request a response by the way) Write the ArchBishop unless you are already in an Archdiocese. The next step would be the Papal Nuncio in Washington DC. Always with kindness and respect.
Br. Rich,

I’m not sure why you suggested writing to the Archbishop if one is not in his diocese. No bishop (except the pope) has authority in another bishop’s diocese. The Archbishop cannot interfere in how a bishop runs his own diocese. While it is true that this issue would then become known, it really serves no purpose.

I would start with the pastor (in writing), then the bishop (in writing) and finally the papal nuncio (in writing). If all these failed, there is always the Congregation for Sacraments and Worship (Cardinal Arinze right now) who handles this sort of thing.

Deacon Ed
 
You are wasting your time by doing anything. These people really do not want to do what’s right. If they agree with you and stop this abuse, they will just start another abuse.

Stop going to that church. Go to a different church each Sunday until you find a good Catholic church.
 
I have an answer to this one from Rome! Our bishop was of retirement age. Our diocese was very abuse ridden. We launched a final campaign to lobby for an orthodox replacement. We launched a website and some in our group gathered up all of the documentation and examples of abuses over the years (actually, a lot of it was recent since we were always being expose to it) and burned it onto a multi-media CD. It had video of clown masses, awful diocesan letters, letters to us from our Bishop, etc., etc., etc. They sent it off to many offices in Rome including the Pope, Cardinal Ratzinger’s office, Congragation of Bishops, etc., the Papal Nuncio. A few months later we were assigned a GREAT bishop. We wondered for a few months if anything we did helped and then Cardinal Ratzinger called a priest friend of ours to his office and asked him if he knew the people who were lobbying for an orthodox replacement. He vouched for us and Cardinal Ratzinger told him to tell us that the CD was the biggest thing to ever hit Rome and that everyone (presumably even the Pope) had seen it and it had been passed around. He also said we should spread this method to others. We had another independent confirmation of the success of the CD when one of us was vacationing in Rome. They ran into a friend who had a priest from the Congregation of Bishops with him. They were introduced as being from our diocese and the first words out of this priests mouth were “Are you the ones who put together that CD?” He said it was very helpful to see first hand what was happening in our diocese. If anyone else would like more info, please PM me.
 
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Mysty101:
Excellant!!!

Would you mention your diocese?

SuZ
I figured this would come up. I try hard not to scandalize the previous bishop but sometimes it’s inevitable. Oakland, CA. We were probably 2nd in line after Rochester as far as abuses. Unfortunately, most of the crazies spreading heresy come from my diocese. They’re not too happy right now. 👍
 
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Fast_ed75:
http://www.stjosephsmen.com/letters/images/clowns_small.jpg

I’m glad everything worked out in getting a new Bishop- Hopefully he does not allow clown masses in his diocese.
Yes, this picture is quite famous. Notice the polka dots and pom-poms on his stole. That used to be my local parish. This is why we drove cross town to go to Mass! This priest is one of those who exports dissent to diocese around the country.

My poor bishop has A LOT of work ahead of him. He’s made some awesome changes but we’ve got a long way to go!
 
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Sue:
We have men who are not ordained clergy and women giving the homily in our parish. According to our Pastoral Administrator, when confronted, our Bishop supports this practice.
I notice you said Pastoral Administrator… Do you have a priest assigned to your parish? Are these “homilies” being delivered at a Mass that’s being celebrated by a priest?
 
When I was reading this thread, I was thinking “could this be anywhere but the Diocese of Rochester?”. We have for years have women and lay preachers “open the word”…they don’t give homilies of course because that wouldn’t be allowed. I have a letter from the Director of Liturgy of the Diocese explaining the Bishop’s wish to continue this wonderful tradition we have. Now only “certified lay preachers” speak after the gospel. They usually leave Mass as soon as they finish the “unhomily”.

If there are any other Catholics from the spiritual desert of the Diocese of Rochester who are interested in approaching Rome is such a manner, I am all ears.

Please pray for Bishop Clark. He is the man God sent to us to be Bishop. For reasons known to God alone, apparently we was the man chosen to be our leader just now. Lord have mercy.
 
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kmmd:
When I was reading this thread, I was thinking “could this be anywhere but the Diocese of Rochester?”. We have for years have women and lay preachers “open the word”…they don’t give homilies of course because that wouldn’t be allowed. I have a letter from the Director of Liturgy of the Diocese explaining the Bishop’s wish to continue this wonderful tradition we have. Now only “certified lay preachers” speak after the gospel. They usually leave Mass as soon as they finish the “unhomily”.

If there are any other Catholics from the spiritual desert of the Diocese of Rochester who are interested in approaching Rome is such a manner, I am all ears.

Please pray for Bishop Clark. He is the man God sent to us to be Bishop. For reasons known to God alone, apparently we was the man chosen to be our leader just now. Lord have mercy.
Since I’m getting many inquiries as to others who may be working on trying to influence orthodoxy in their diocese, I suggest you go to www.catholicmediacoalition.org Go to locate CMC members and click on the map! Some are working on CD’s and some don’t think they have the technical expertise and would love help if you or someone you know has this skill!
 
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bear06:
Since I’m getting many inquiries as to others who may be working on trying to influence orthodoxy in their diocese, I suggest you go to www.catholicmediacoalition.org Go to locate CMC members and click on the map! Some are working on CD’s and some don’t think they have the technical expertise and would love help if you or someone you know has this skill!
P.S. Get video tape of the lay homilists. Document, document, document!
 
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kmmd:
When I was reading this thread, I was thinking “could this be anywhere but the Diocese of Rochester?” … Now only “certified lay preachers” speak after the gospel. They usually leave Mass as soon as they finish the “unhomily”.
I can not say that I have recently witnessed this phenomenon, and I’m in that diocese.

Maybe I’m just lucky!
 
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Timidity:
I can not say that I have recently witnessed this phenomenon., and I’m in that diocese.
What Parish are you in? I would love to go to Mass there.
 
Sue said:
:confused: We have men who are not ordained clergy and women giving the homily in our parish. According to our Pastoral Administrator, when confronted, our Bishop supports this practice. I think more parishioners would complain if they knew it was an abuse. How do I elevate the issue? Do I go directly to the Vatican? Is there a document stating the process? Thank you.

I discussed this with someone in a general manner. They said that we should first clarify was this a “Homily”? A “Homily” is required to be given by an Ordained cleric after the Gospel reading during the celebration of the Mass. If this were a “Communion Service” and not a Mass, then a Layperson reading the Gospel and giving a reflection would be acceptable. It of course would be the preference that the reflection be written by a Bishop, Priest or Deacon and just read by the Layperson. A Pastor of a nearby parish could fax or Email a copy of his Homily over to a priestless parish for them to read.
 
wow, Oakland, and you got Vigneron, good job, think I will invest in a CD burner and video camera
 
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puzzleannie:
wow, Oakland, and you got Vigneron, good job, think I will invest in a CD burner and video camera
If any bishop would be willing to assist, it would be Vigneron. He’s a good, solid, orthodox bishop. If you don’t want him, would you be so kind as to send him back to Detroit? I’ll even pay shipping & handling! 😉
 
What on earth is a “clown mass”?

I mean, I saw the pictures. Was it some weird special occasion? Was (ahem) the circus in town? Was it a feast day? St. Julian is the patron of clowns and circus workers.

I have to know the whole story. I just have to.
 
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