How should I feel about the SSPX?

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Soruce: ncregister.com/daily-news/traditionalists-indicate-definitive-break-with-catholic-church/#ixzz2b6ZQplC3

Doesn’t sound like “they are pledged to understand its texts in the light of previously defined, infallible Tradition”. Sounds like they still think the Council was erroneous. Perhaps you can show me that my interpretation is false?
They definitely do not reject the validity of the Council as such. And their difficulty with the Council documents is nothing so simple as an accusation of direct statement of a heresy in the documents. Likewise, they themselves have never, as far as I know, been accused of denying any necessary dogma of the Faith. The many statements in Vatican II open to divergent interpretations are there for all to see. This is not in the least the way that any other of the 20 Ecumenical councils has written before. It is all nowadays on the web. It’s not an invention of the SSPX. They are often urged, in some quarters, to ‘obey Vatican II’, or ‘follow the teachings of Vatican II’. I for one have been trying to find out: what are these teachings that they have not been following? I have asked that question on this forum many times, and to date have been given no specific answer, which is strange. The nearest I have got is a poster saying, ‘Well, they need to be obedient to the Pope’. The SSPX insist that they are obedient within the meaning of the word. That is why I posted S. Thomas Aquinas’ definitive writing on the topic. Not to jump to the conclusion of justifying the stand of the SSPX, but to provide a framework for our debate.
 
LOL! You are right. Then why did the OP move the goal posts? His thread title and opening post are only about the SSPX?
Well, I wasn’t really trying to change the subject. I should have been more clear in the OP. The question was how I should feel about the SSPX, but I should have qualified as “How should I feel about the SSPX as opposed to some group who is officially in schism with the Catholic Church (like protestants).” Sorry for the confusion. I think the answers have all been very helpful anyway. Thanks.
 
I’m a bit confused. They are in an irregular status with the Church. Does this mean I should think of them the way I think of protestants? Or should I be rooting for them? I know we want them to be normalized in the Church, but until that happens how should I feel about them? I’m not interested in joining them or anything, just trying to figure out what I should be thinking. I see a lot of stuff by other bloggers, both positive and negative, about the group. I personally just don’t know what to feel. 🤷
What you feel is up to you.

What you do is, you obey Peter’s Successor, and avoid their gatherings and their ceremonies, until such time as they are restored to their proper place in the Church.

Meanwhile, the FSSP offer a valid and licit Latin Mass that Catholics are allowed to attend. If you are interested in seeing a Latin Mass, go to an FSSP chapel, and do so there. 🙂
 
How does one bring them to “fuller communion” with the Church?
I read it as, keeping yourself in communion with the Church. Associating with schismatic groups of any kind could tend to draw one away from full communion with the Church. (“Communion” in the sense of “belonging”; this isn’t referring to the reception of the Eucharist.)
 
How does one bring them to “fuller communion” with the Church?
“one” does not bring them into fuller communion.

It is a matter between them and the Pope; and the dicastery involved at the Pope’s direction. They received the specifics they need to do to achieve that fuller communion; they received ift from the dicastery and when the questions was asked “is this from the Pope (Benedict)”, he acknowledged that he specifically approved of the letter.

The laity have nothing to do with bringing them in (except to pray for that unity).
 
They definitely do not reject the validity of the Council as such. And their difficulty with the Council documents is nothing so simple as an accusation of direct statement of a heresy in the documents.
It is, however, close enough for government work.
They are often urged, in some quarters, to ‘obey Vatican II’, or ‘follow the teachings of Vatican II’. I for one have been trying to find out: what are these teachings that they have not been following?
It may be hard to find on this forum as there have been so many postings. It is, however, not something secret. They certainly have repeatedly and publicly said what they feel is wrong with V2; and the Church has clearly said they are wrong. It is not between the laity and them; it is between the Vatican and them.
The SSPX insist that they are obedient within the meaning of the word. That is why I posted S. Thomas Aquinas’ definitive writing on the topic. Not to jump to the conclusion of justifying the stand of the SSPX, but to provide a framework for our debate.
They insist, and the Pope, and the dicastery in charge, have been just as insistent they are not. Again, it is a matter between them and Rome. If you want to know what is going on, read what Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller has said, or Archbishop Joseph Di Noia have written. They are pretty clear (although you may have to read several of their statements). Considering they are the two who are primarily involved in this on behalf of the Pope, they are far better authorities than anyone in this forum.
 
I read it as, keeping yourself in communion with the Church. Associating with schismatic groups of any kind could tend to draw one away from full communion with the Church. (“Communion” in the sense of “belonging”; this isn’t referring to the reception of the Eucharist.)
‘In Communion’ is another technical term with a legal meaning. It is often used loosely. If you are baptised and are not excommunicated, you are in communion. Bp Grosseteste was at loggerheads with the pope of the day, but he was always in communion.

‘Schism’. Just to point out that the SSPX have never been in schism within the formal meaning of the word.

It is well to define this word. Not the least strength of the Catholic Faith that has kept it true to its mandate from Christ is its insistence on defining words before using them.

The Modern world throws round words for their emotional baggage, disregarding their meaning, and therefore emptying them of content;

A classic trick of the Marxists was to use the old words,but to re-define their meanings: e.g. ‘peace’ meant ‘Communist Victory’ etc etc.

A good friend of mine,one Michael O’Connor (R.I.P.), used to attend communist meetings in Australia (flanked by two sturdy comrades) and would stand up and say, ‘Yes, you are right! The communists do want peace! They want a piece of this country and a piece of that country…’

A schism is not a refusal to obey authority, but a denial that the visible, ostensive authority exists at all. If any archbishop had consecrated another bishop for a diocese that had a validly appointed bishop already incumbent, this would be a usurpation of jurisdiction: denial of the authority of the Church to apportion jurisdiction, and it would therefore be schismatic [although St Athanasius, Bp Eusebius and other faithful Catholics did precisely this during the Arian crisis … but let that rest for now]. Mgr Lefebvre recognised that an objective state of emergency existed, and appointed emergency bishops pro tem, sine locus. This may or may not be justified, but it is not schismatic.

To quote the Catholic Encyclopaedia:
** “Not every disobedience is a schism; in order to possess this character it must include besides the transgression of the commands of superiors, denial of their Divine right to command”**
See *Cath. Encyclopaedia *on New Advent website, article on Schism

Archpb. Lefebvre said, in effect, “Holy Father, in this matter, you are going to snuff out the last living strand in the tradition of the Church of totally faithful bishops, unaffected by the Modernist error that your predecessor rightly called “The synthesis of all heresies”. In these circumstances, it will be the lesser of two evils for me to fulfil my sworn duty as a bishop and appoint my successors”. He did NOT add, “And therefore you are not my father”.

Since real schismatics are in a state of material mortal sin, the question is important. For more than a decade I have fully supported the SSPX (as well as my local parish). The last straw for me was the letter from an Irish bishop - Bp O’Connor of Kerry - refusing to implement Ecclesia Dei - which is identified as a *Motu Proprio *& therefore, by definition, ‘A statement issued on the Pope’s own initiative and carrying the Force of Law’ - & containing the word “must”. The Pope had told him he “must” be generous when his flock asked for the Old Mass, and he refused. He possibly believed he was going to get away with it, on the basis of past experience of other bishops in the previous decades, and he did: because he was not required to implement this ruling of the Pope. Hence, it seemed clear to me, the SSPX were correct in diagnosing a state of emergency, & taking appropriate emergency measures. At least some of the people who had made the formal petition to their Local Ordinary (= bishop) under the terms of Ecclesia Dei, subsequently became supporters of the SSPX.
 
They definitely do not reject the validity of the Council as such. And their difficulty with the Council documents is nothing so simple as an accusation of direct statement of a heresy in the documents. Likewise, they themselves have never, as far as I know, been accused of denying any necessary dogma of the Faith. The many statements in Vatican II open to divergent interpretations are there for all to see. This is not in the least the way that any other of the 20 Ecumenical councils has written before. It is all nowadays on the web. It’s not an invention of the SSPX. They are often urged, in some quarters, to ‘obey Vatican II’, or ‘follow the teachings of Vatican II’. I for one have been trying to find out: what are these teachings that they have not been following? I have asked that question on this forum many times, and to date have been given no specific answer, which is strange. The nearest I have got is a poster saying, ‘Well, they need to be obedient to the Pope’. The SSPX insist that they are obedient within the meaning of the word. That is why I posted S. Thomas Aquinas’ definitive writing on the topic. Not to jump to the conclusion of justifying the stand of the SSPX, but to provide a framework for our debate.
Here’s the problem. One, the modern SSPX flatly does not accept Vatican II as a valid ecumenical council of the Catholic Church. Two, even if they did, part of accepting it as a valid council would mean to obey the Pope’s interpretation of the documents, since His Holiness is the Supreme Pontiff and jurist of canon law. Neither of these things do they do. The modern SSPX thinks that the Mass of Paul VI is illicit, that ecumenical and interreligious dialogue and cooperation is a betrayal of Christ (particularly grating is their frequent antisemitic remarks), they reject that the Catholic Church “subsists in” the Church of Christ, they think the notion of religious liberty is a rupture with Sacred Tradition, and they reject the levels of textual criticism that is allowed by Dei Verbum.

Quoting St. Thomas Aquinas is disingenuous considering the context. He never said that it is valid to disobey one’s legitimate superior on account of the subject disagreeing with an ecumenical council of the Holy Church.

The SSPX do not value the authority of the Supreme Pontiff. For that reason they are schismatic and their order illicit. If they truly were “traditionalists”, they would have lamented the auto-excommunicated that Abp. Lefebvre incurred, and done everything they could to return to communion with Rome. As it stands they still disobey Rome and repeat Protestant slogans that devalue the Papacy.
 
It is, however, close enough for government work.

It may be hard to find on this forum as there have been so many postings. It is, however, not something secret. They certainly have repeatedly and publicly said what they feel is wrong with V2; and the Church has clearly said they are wrong. It is not between the laity and them; it is between the Vatican and them.

They insist, and the Pope, and the dicastery in charge, have been just as insistent they are not. Again, it is a matter between them and Rome. If you want to know what is going on, read what Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller has said, or Archbishop Joseph Di Noia have written. They are pretty clear (although you may have to read several of their statements). Considering they are the two who are primarily involved in this on behalf of the Pope, they are far better authorities than anyone in this forum.
tnx, I’ll google. The posters on this forum are usually very good at giving links to support their statements. I’d be grateful for the link to any specific statement.
 
I avoid SSPX…my view is that I am avoiding the near occasion of sin with that choice. I’m not saying that anyone else should use that logic.

My only recommendation would be to prayerfully consider whether associating with a group in an irregular and contentious relationship with our Popes and the Church will bring you to fuller communion with his Church or will pull you towards an irregular and contentious relationship with Mother Church.
That is a very strong argument,and it is one which I followed for many years.However, as time went on and the abuses continued unabated, I began to think that the SSPX have a very strong case also. In the end, on balance, from where I was, it was the stronger of the two. I used to be worried about a possible future drift away from the true Faith. What I saw in practice was a real and present drift in the mainstream,institutionalised in the completely inadequate teaching of the young, and in sermons that were heretical in the full sense of the word. What I have seen the SSPX do, is expel those priests who diverge from the SSPX position (e.g. by declaring that the Novus Ordo Missae is per se invalid; a proposition that is forbidden to SSPX) - by taking this action, the SSPX are merely following the practice of the church from the very first generation. As also with much else about them.
 
‘In Communion’ is another technical term with a legal meaning. It is often used loosely. If you are baptised and are not excommunicated, you are in communion. Bp Grosseteste was at loggerheads with the pope of the day, but he was always in communion.

‘Schism’. Just to point out that the SSPX have never been in schism within the formal meaning of the word.

It is well to define this word. Not the least strength of the Catholic Faith that has kept it true to its mandate from Christ is its insistence on defining words before using them.

The Modern world throws round words for their emotional baggage, disregarding their meaning, and therefore emptying them of content;

A classic trick of the Marxists was to use the old words,but to re-define their meanings: e.g. ‘peace’ meant ‘Communist Victory’ etc etc.

A good friend of mine,one Michael O’Connor (R.I.P.), used to attend communist meetings in Australia (flanked by two sturdy comrades) and would stand up and say, ‘Yes, you are right! The communists do want peace! They want a piece of this country and a piece of that country…’

A schism is not a refusal to obey authority, but a denial that the visible, ostensive authority exists at all. If any archbishop had consecrated another bishop for a diocese that had a validly appointed bishop already incumbent, this would be a usurpation of jurisdiction: denial of the authority of the Church to apportion jurisdiction, and it would therefore be schismatic [although St Athanasius, Bp Eusebius and other faithful Catholics did precisely this during the Arian crisis … but let that rest for now]. Mgr Lefebvre recognised that an objective state of emergency existed, and appointed emergency bishops pro tem, sine locus. This may or may not be justified, but it is not schismatic.

To quote the Catholic Encyclopaedia:
See *Cath. Encyclopaedia *on New Advent website, article on Schism

Archpb. Lefebvre said, in effect, “Holy Father, in this matter, you are going to snuff out the last living strand in the tradition of the Church of totally faithful bishops, unaffected by the Modernist error that your predecessor rightly called “The synthesis of all heresies”. In these circumstances, it will be the lesser of two evils for me to fulfil my sworn duty as a bishop and appoint my successors”. He did NOT add, “And therefore you are not my father”.

Since real schismatics are in a state of material mortal sin, the question is important. For more than a decade I have fully supported the SSPX (as well as my local parish). The last straw for me was the letter from an Irish bishop - Bp O’Connor of Kerry - refusing to implement Ecclesia Dei - which is identified as a *Motu Proprio *& therefore, by definition, ‘A statement issued on the Pope’s own initiative and carrying the Force of Law’ - & containing the word “must”. The Pope had told him he “must” be generous when his flock asked for the Old Mass, and he refused. He possibly believed he was going to get away with it, on the basis of past experience of other bishops in the previous decades, and he did: because he was not required to implement this ruling of the Pope. Hence, it seemed clear to me, the SSPX were correct in diagnosing a state of emergency, & taking appropriate emergency measures. At least some of the people who had made the formal petition to their Local Ordinary (= bishop) under the terms of Ecclesia Dei, subsequently became supporters of the SSPX.
Perhaps, you haven’t actually read Ecclesia Dei.

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html
  1. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated.
  1. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition…But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.(6)
5c…Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church’s law.(8)
 
That is a very strong argument,and it is one which I followed for many years.However, as time went on and the abuses continued unabated, I began to think that the SSPX have a very strong case also. In the end, on balance, from where I was, it was the stronger of the two. I used to be worried about a possible future drift away from the true Faith. What I saw in practice was a real and present drift in the mainstream,institutionalised in the completely inadequate teaching of the young, and in sermons that were heretical in the full sense of the word. What I have seen the SSPX do, is expel those priests who diverge from the SSPX position (e.g. by declaring that the Novus Ordo Missae is per se invalid; a proposition that is forbidden to SSPX) - by taking this action, the SSPX are merely following the practice of the church from the very first generation. As also with much else about them.
Do you not think it somewhat hypocritical to say that one can be just in adhering to a schismatic and illicit organization on account of many abuses of the faith going overlooked? How about all of these well-educated SSPX priests go about correcting disobedience to the Church rather than propagating it?

Yes, the SSPX looks very Catholic once you get passed their errors regarding ecclesiastical authority. But so did a lot of heresies. We’re used to thinking of how the Protestants butchered the Mass when they apostatized in the 16th century, but their like is the minority in history; truth be told, the majority of heretics celebrated Mass exactly the same once they split from the Church. Are you prepared to defend the disobedience and doctrinal errors of the Jansenists, Donatists, Waldensians, Ultraquists, and Gallicanists, on account of the fact that in their days as well, many abuses were overlooked by Rome?
 
I supposed Traditionalist Catholics could look at the SSPX in the same way that Eastern Catholics look at the Eastern Orthodox: yes, they’re separated brethren, yes, they’re schismatic, but boy, their liturgies sure are cool. 🙂
 
ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CEDSSPX2.HTM
c. It may still be difficult to characterize the entire Society of St. Pius X, but the documentation which you have submitted witnesses to a consistent condemnation of the new Mass, the Pope and anyone who disagrees with the authorities of the Society in the smallest degree. Such behaviour is not consistent with the practice of the Catholic faith.
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica_en.html
Another mistake, which I deeply regret, is the fact that the extent and limits of the provision of 21 January 2009 were not clearly and adequately explained at the moment of its publication. The excommunication affects individuals, not institutions. An episcopal ordination lacking a pontifical mandate raises the danger of a schism, since it jeopardizes the unity of the College of Bishops with the Pope. Consequently the Church must react by employing her most severe punishment – excommunication – with the aim of calling those thus punished to repent and to return to unity. Twenty years after the ordinations, this goal has sadly not yet been attained. The remission of the excommunication has the same aim as that of the punishment: namely, to invite the four Bishops once more to return. This gesture was possible once the interested parties had expressed their recognition in principle of the Pope and his authority as Pastor, albeit with some reservations in the area of obedience to his doctrinal authority and to the authority of the Council. Here I return to the distinction between individuals and institutions. The remission of the excommunication was a measure taken in the field of ecclesiastical discipline: the individuals were freed from the burden of conscience constituted by the most serious of ecclesiastical penalties. This disciplinary level needs to be distinguished from the doctrinal level. The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.
 
That is a very strong argument,and it is one which I followed for many years.However, as time went on and the abuses continued unabated, I began to think that the SSPX have a very strong case also.
The problem the SSPX have had, and the one you may be having, is confusing concurrence with causation. It is not the documents of Vatican Two which have caused the problem; it is the explosive moves that were made in Western Europe and North America unrelated to the documents which have caused the problems.

And one of the most explosive issues back then was the reaction to Humanae Vitae, a document that had nothing to do with the V2 documents. It has been interesting to read people’s analysis of that event, as it has shown they were not there at the time (they give a trickle down theory, failing to understand that 80+ theologians took out a national ad in opposition to HV at the time it was being released; and the whiplash from that act of disobedience was immediate). Never in history has there been such a massive and immediate rejection of an encyclical such as that was, and never has there been such a public urging to direct disobedience of an encyclical. And from the questioning of the Pope’s authority (and wisdom) to speak on such a fundamental moral issue to questioning the bishops’ directions in liturgy (to name just one area that V@ dealt with) was only a minor jaunt at best.
In the end, on balance, from where I was, it was the stronger of the two. I used to be worried about a possible future drift away from the true Faith. What I saw in practice was a real and present drift in the mainstream,institutionalised in the completely inadequate teaching of the young, and in sermons that were heretical in the full sense of the word.
None of that, however, comes from the documents of V@, no matter how hard the SSPX try to say it does. Progressives with agendas took over with their own blueprints (and that gives them more organization than they had) as to what daily, weekly, monthly and yearly life in the pews and in the classrooms should look like. Nowhere in the documents do you get any indication the bishops of the world were suggesting that catechesis needed to throw out teaching doctrine and bring in a (minimally Gospel oriented) “love one another” pablum that had no clear scriptural foundation.
What I have seen the SSPX do, is expel those priests who diverge from the SSPX position (e.g. by declaring that the Novus Ordo Missae is per se invalid; a proposition that is forbidden to SSPX) - by taking this action, the SSPX are merely following the practice of the church from the very first generation. As also with much else about them.
Given that the SSPX have been in open defiance with the Pope (starting back with troubles with Paul 6th, and coming to a head with John Paul 2, and proceeding since then in the same defiance) their internal issues are by no means a paragon of virtue in the issue of discipline. For whatever internal discipline they may have exercised, they have shown themselves to reject the discipline of the Popes and the dicasteries which have authority.

Rome has been exceedingly generous in a) allowing more time; b) refusing to make public comments of anything but a conciliatory nature and c) repeatedly allowing the SSPX to play a cat-and-mouse game over the issue. Benedict, as Cardinal Ratzinger, had to “carry the water” when the SSPX and John Paul 2 were in an escalating status; and as Pope, he continued to show a phenomenal amount of patience, love, and desire for reconcilliation. However, as Pope it was his duty to tell the SSPX they were wrong and the Church was right (a little issue about the guidance of the Holy Spirit that the SSPX seems to have forgotten). He tried in every way possible to bring about reconcilliation and was rebuffed at every attempt. He suffered criticism from both the conservative and the progressive elements of the Church, and never lost patience or sight of what he wanted to accomplish. He never spoke in anger, never lost his cool, never retaliated, never took the disciplinary approach of which you speak favorably. Had he done that, the status of the SSPX would have changed; but he soldered on knowing that what Christ wants is reconcilliation, and that as Christ’s clearest representative on earth, that was his calling.

If he had exercised the disciplinary alternatives with the SSPX as they do internally, this would all be a very different conversation.
 
… the SSPX isn’t happy with it, so now they’ve resorted to what practically every liturgical abuser, priestess advocate, and homosexualist does, which is appeal to private interpretations of scripture, canon law, and magisterial documents to avoid accepting the judgment that has been passed upon them. 🤷
This would be a valid argument if the SSPX were picking and choosing between defined infallible dogmas of the Faith - the very definition of heresy (Greek herein = to choose). But they are doing the opposite. They are applying the objective test – the so-called Canon of S. Vincent of Lérins, from the Fifth Century, solemnly canonised as infallible doctrine at Vatican I:
*** ‘What has been believed everywhere, at all times by everyone, cannot be in error’.***
Certain statements of Vatican II appear to contradict ‘What has been believed everywhere, at all times by everyone’; and insofar as they do, they are in error. This is an objective test, not a matter of private judgment. That is what is meant by ‘understanding Vatican II in the light of Tradition’.
The article in the Catholic Encyclopaedia begins:
St. Vincent of Lérins

Feast on 24 May, an ecclesiastical writer in Southern Gaul in the fifth century. His work is much better known than his life. Almost all our information concerning him is contained in Gennadius, “De viris illustribus” (lxiv). He entered the monastery of Lérins (today Isle St. Honorat), where under the pseudonym of Peregrinus he wrote his *“Commonitorium” *(434). He died before 450, and probably shortly after 434. St. Eucherius of Lyons calls him a holy man, conspicuous for eloquence and knowledge
Here is an extract from the original work:
THE COMMONITORY OF VINCENT OF LERINS, FOR THE ANTIQUITY AND UNIVERSALITY OF THE CATHOLIC FAITH AGAINST THE PROFANE NOVELTIES OF ALL HERESIES
CHAPTER I.
The Object of the Following Treatise.
  • I, PEREGRINUS,(2) who am the least of all the servants of God,
    remembering the admonition of Scripture, “Ask thy fathers and they will tell
    thee, thine elders and they will declare unto thee,”(8) and again, “Bow down
    thine ear to the words of the wise,”(4) and once more, “My son, forget not
    these instructions, but let thy heart keep my words:”(5) remembering these
    admonitions, I say, I, Peregrinus, am persuaded, that, the Lord helping me, it
    will be of no little use and certainly as regards my own feeble powers, it is
    most necessary, that I should put truthfully received from the holy Fathers, since I shall then have ready at hand wherewith by constant reading to make amends for the weakness of my memory.

    CHAPTER II.
    A General Rule for distinguishing the Truth of the Catholic Faith from the Falsehood of Heretical Pravity.
Code:
[4.] I HAVE often then inquired earnestly and attentively of very many men
eminent for sanctity and learning, how and by what sure and so to speak
universal rule I may be able to distinguish the truth of Catholic faith from
the falsehood of heretical pravity; and I have always, and in almost every
instance, received an answer to this effect: That whether I or any one else
should wish to detect the frauds and avoid the snares of heretics as they
rise, and to continue sound and complete in the Catholic faith, we must, the
Lord helping, fortify our own belief in two ways; first, by the authority of
the Divine Law, and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church.
Code:
[5.] But here some one perhaps will ask, Since the canon of Scripture is
complete, and sufficient of itself for everything, and more than sufficient,
what need is there to join with it the authority of the Church’s
interpretation? For this reason,–because, owing to the depth of Holy
Scripture, all do not accept it in one and the same sense, but one understands
its words in one way, another in another; so that it seems to be capable of as
many interpretations as there are interpreters. For Novatian expounds it one
way, Sabellius another, Donatus another, Arius, Eunomius, Macedonius, another,
Photinus, Apollinaris, Priscillian, another, Iovinian, Pelagius, Celestius,
another, lastly, Nestorius another. Therefore, it is very necessary, on
account of so great intricacies of such various error, that the rule for the
right understanding of the prophets and apostles should be framed in
accordance with the standard of Ecclesiastical and Catholic interpretation. . *
(cont’d)
 
(cont’d)
[6.] Moreover, in the Catholic Church itself, all possible care must be
taken, that we hold that faith which has been believed everywhere, always, by
all. For that is truly and in the strictest sense “Catholic,” which, as the
name itself and the reason of the thing declare, comprehends all universally.
This rule we shall observe if we follow universality, antiquity, consent. We
shall follow universality if we confess that one faith to be true, which the
whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity, if we in no wise
depart from those interpretations which it is manifest were notoriously held
by our holy ancestors and fathers; consent, in like manner, if in antiquity
itself we adhere to the consentient definitions and determinations of all, or
at the least of almost all priests and doctors
CHAPTER III.
What is to be done if one or more dissent from the rest?
[7.] … What, surely, but prefer the soundness of the whole body to the unsoundness of a pestilent and corrupt member? What, if some novel contagion seek to infect not merely an insignificant portion of the Church, but the whole? Then it will be his care to cleave to antiquity, which at this day cannot possibly be seduced by any fraud or novelty.
Links:
newadvent.org/cathen/15439b.htmThis

newadvent.org/fathers/3506.htm
 
This would be a valid argument if the SSPX were picking and choosing between defined infallible dogmas of the Faith - the very definition of heresy (Greek herein = to choose). But they are doing the opposite. They are applying the objective test – the so-called Canon of S. Vincent of Lérins, from the Fifth Century, solemnly canonised as infallible doctrine at Vatican I: Certain statements of Vatican II appear to contradict ‘What has been believed everywhere, at all times by everyone’; and insofar as they do, they are in error. This is an objective test, not a matter of private judgment.
Sorry, you don’t get it both ways: you can’t tell me that the SSPX aren’t heretical or schismatic because they don’t technically reject Vatican II, and then turn around and say that they are bound by conscience to because it contradicts the faith.

Tell me numealinesimpet: why should I, average bloke Catholic Joe, take the words of SSPX and their citation of St. Vincent of Lerins, over that of every Supreme Pontiff for the past fifty years, and the entire Magisterium on earth at the Vatican? I’m not Catholic because I think Catholicism is a lofty ideal that sounds good. I am Catholic because St. Peter was promised by Christ in Matthew 16:18-19 to have the keys that bind heaven and earth, and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. If Vatican II has promulgated errors of the faith in the name of the joint Magisterium and the Chair of St. Peter, then clearly Rome is a counterfeit. Why do the SSPX take the middle ground on this, praytell? They want it both ways. They want to disobey Rome because they cannot accept her teachings, but they don’t want to say that Rome is in apostasy because that contradicts almost the entire basis of their own faith. That’s why they’re stuck in this bizarre state illicit, schismatic state they are in now, and probably will be for awhile until this doublethink is resolved.
 
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