How should I go about this issue?

[Krysia2178]

I’m not sure if I have this in the right Forum, I figured, if anyone, apologists would know something about this - if I am in the wrong place though, can someone please point me to the right direction, thank you!

Now, the issue. I just recently returned to my home country (after a few years living the states for school) and found out that one of the bishops has been committing numerous, I’ll call them “errors”. From acting promiscuous to stealing church funds. Now, this isn’t gossip (because really, who gossips about seeing different women go in and out a bishop’s hotel room, and what kind of bishop stays at a hotel room?!?!), my aunt who works in the bishop’s office is just one of the number of people who can vouch for the wrong that’s been going on there. It’s a public secret. Everyone knows about it, but no one is doing anything about it, or at least it seems so. Am I wrong to be the only one who is absolutely furious about all this?!
What I wanted to ask is, knowing all of this, and provided there is evidence, what do I do? I can’t just ignore the fact that nothing seems to be done about this (and apparently it’s been going on for 2years). But what do I do? Who do I report this to?

 

[Road2Damascus]

Wow? In the Catholic Church?? This so far, seems hard to believe…I’ll be watching this thread. Those are quite some vague accusations to put forth and in a foreign country no less but of course, I’m not the judge of what is posted on these forums. I’d be looking for the Email of a Cardinal and write him about this.

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m found out that one of the bishops has been committing numerous, I’ll call them “errors”. From acting promiscuous to stealing church funds. Now, this isn’t gossip (because really, who gossips about seeing different women go in and out a bishop’s hotel room, and what kind of bishop stays at a hotel room?!?!), my aunt who works in the bishop’s office is just one of the number of people who can vouch for the wrong that’s been going on there. It’s a public secret. Everyone knows about it, but no one is doing anything about it, or at least it ?

you dont’ report it to anyone because you have no direct knowledge, only hearsay. The people for whom this is a public secret, who have witnessed crimes and sins (not errors, crimes and sins) are obligated morally, legally, ethically and as a condition of their employment with the Church to report it. They report formally to the vicar general, also to the archbishop of the regional council of bishops, and to the bishop’s council of that country. They do it in a formal, written manner not by anonymous messages. They can also report to the papal nuncio of that country. They report what they know and witness, not innuendo and gossip.

If they have not reported it so far they approve, support, enable, and share some of the guilt for the behavior.

you may tell your relative that from me

why are these people not shy about gossiping with anyone and everyone but refuse to report to anyone in a position of authority?

do not repeat gossip that you yourself have not substantiated with facts, that is a sin of itself.

If any of these involve criminal activity they must be reported by those who witness them or are aware of them to local law enforcement. Again those who are found to have known of this and do not report may be liable themselves depending on laws in that place. In the US you would almost certainly become a defendant in any lawsuit that arose if it could be proven you knew about it, and you might also have criminal liability.

I have the lowest possible opinion of clerics who act this way, but the people who know and do not report are on the next bottom rung of the ladder, IMO.

 

[Krysia2178]

Thank you for the advice. This is all very unsettling. I will be pushing on my aunt to report what she knows first hand on this issue to the archbishop.

If any of these involve criminal activity they must be reported by those who witness them or are aware of them to local law enforcement. Again those who are found to have known of this and do not report may be liable themselves depending on laws in that place. In the US you would almost certainly become a defendant in any lawsuit that arose if it could be proven you knew about it, and you might also have criminal liability.

The problem with this is, it’s a developing country a.k.a. 3rd world (I’m not sure if it is appropriate/allowed for me to name the country?) where corruption is just part of reality, and the law enforcement is part of the corruption. So reporting to the authorities wouldn’t do anything unless you have the money and the power to get them to actually get things processed
Which also answers this question:

why are these people not shy about gossiping with anyone and everyone but refuse to report to anyone in a position of authority?

Unfortunately, corruption of people in authority is quite visible in every part of life here, and the mere people have very little power to change it (although recent years the country has been trying to change this). I guess this culture is also the reason why “these people” gossip about it, they feel that they have no power in being able to do anything about it. I know that this issue is different from a political figure being involved money laundry, but for the people here, it’s about the same. And yes, you can sigh and think “they have no ethics or morals” but it’s the sad reality that’s been embedded into a majority of the population for as long as this country has been around.

I’m glad however to know that reporting to the archbishop would be the first thing to do. Because I have not seen or experienced the crimes happening first hand, like you said puzzleannie, I will do what I can and push my aunt and the people that she knows into writing an official statement to the archbishop.
I’ll update this thread with any progress that happens.

 

[Rock_Happy]

I was on an opera tour once in San Francisco. There was a high church official on the tour from the archdiocese of New York. He was openly flirting with men. Socializing with the homosexual couples on the tour. His room was next to mine and I saw young men who may have been prostitutes going to his room a couple of times during the week, by chance.

Clerics are people to, with human weakness. That sort of behavior is troubling to observe from someone who claims to stand for other values, and who is in a position of authority.

 

[puzzleannie]

If you witness misbehavior and do not report it to the proper authorities you approve, enable and abet the behavior. If you then gossip about it, that simply adds to the reprehensibility of your failure to report. I am using “you” in the editorial, not personal, sense.

 

[razredge]

Err, simple - you report it to the Church authorities and if they don’t act you go to the press.

 

[puzzleannie]

Unfortunately, corruption of people in authority is quite visible in every part of life here, and the mere people have very little power to change it (although recent years the country has been trying to change this). I guess this culture is also the reason why “these people” gossip about it, they feel that they have no power in being able to do anything about it. .

then the culture and system will continue to be corrupt until enough people stop talking and start acting
they are content with the system or they would have already started a revolution

 

[The_Old_Medic]

You would write a letter to the Papal Nuncio in your home country, listing the people that have reported this behavior by name and address, and ask that this be investigated.

Don’t use the excuse that you might get someone in trouble. if they are telling you this stuff, then their either “put up, or shut up”. Either they saw what they saw, experienced what they experienced, or they are liars. If they actually know what they claim to know, then THEY have an obligation to report this conduct.

Failing to do so is a grave sin on THEIR part (and now on yours).

 

[Krysia2178]

then the culture and system will continue to be corrupt until enough people stop talking and start acting
they are content with the system or they would have already started a revolution

They’ve already had a revolution, but the process of fixing things that would affect every part of life and down to the core takes a long time. I do believe that the process is going in the right direction, but again, it just takes a long time. We’re talking about years and years of culture, moral and ethical repairs that needs to be done. The people who have their hearts in the right place are definitely working for this (by this, I mean repairing the system in general).
I just ask for your prayers so that the people who know the issue of the bishop first hand would soon be moved to take action. I’m still trying to contact my aunt to get things moving from her part (I don’t live in the same area, and communication is sometimes hard since her work takes her to places with no phone reception)

 

[Krysia2178]

You would write a letter to the Papal Nuncio in your home country, listing the people that have reported this behavior by name and address, and ask that this be investigated.

Don’t use the excuse that you might get someone in trouble. if they are telling you this stuff, then their either “put up, or shut up”. Either they saw what they saw, experienced what they experienced, or they are liars. If they actually know what they claim to know, then THEY have an obligation to report this conduct.

Failing to do so is a grave sin on THEIR part (and now on yours).

Trust me, I am not worried at all about reporting this myself. But as puzzleannie pointed out, I don’t have the first hand knowledge of the goings on, it’s all only based on what my aunt has revealed. But you do raise a good point. I am trying to gather as much information as I can from my aunt, and hopefully find out other people who know about the matter. I feel like if they don’t take action into reporting all this themselves, then I would take your advice and ask for an investigation with listing the people who has the direct knowledge of things. Would this be a good course of action to take on my part?

 

[Krysia2178]

I would like to give an update on this issue.
I talked to my dad who gave me a better insight on what has happened, it turns out my aunt did not give me all the details (either she didn’t know or she just didn’t tell me). Apparently there has been a big effort from everyone including people within the diocese as well as priests whom have first hand knowledge of what the bishop has done. They’ve even formed a committee to bring forth this issue and gone as far as compiling an extensive report with evidence to support it. According to my dad, the people in the committee have brought the issue forward to the Archdiocese and have possibly brought it up to Rome, he’s not sure if they have gone through reporting to the Papal Nuncio.
This makes me wonder why no actions have been taken yet (if indeed the issue has been brought forward to Rome). I understand that a bishop is appointed directly by the Pope (right?), and it takes an entire process of it’s own to replace an existing bishop, but for things to continue the way they are is really unsettling. People in the diocese are getting more and more upset about how everything seems to be left as it is at the moment.