How should women act so as not to draw undue attention?

[budgie2]

When I saw the title of this thread I really misunderstood I think. I thought it was about our actions, not what we wear.
How should we act? Dignified. Honorable. Thoughtful. Compassionate. Virtuous.
A prostitute can ply her trade in the dress of a Catholic school girl. But that certainly does not make her virtuous.
A housewife can wear blue jeans and can be on her knees praying the rosary. Will God refuse to hear her?
That said, at Mass dignity and virtue should help us know that clothing met to direct attention to our sexuality is inappropriate.
At any other time, being thoughtful about what we are presenting to others helps.
A man will certainly be sexually attracted to a pole dance at a bar. But is he interested in having a family and living his lifetime caring for her.
A woman who is looking for male companionship may think it’s a good idea to dress provocatively and advertise her sexual desirability. But what kind of man is she looking for? If she wants a man in her life who will care for her and her children this is not the way to go about it.
And for those of us who veil, and for those who don’t, we must remember Salome’ veiled as a sexual tease for her step father. Modesty and virtue are in the woman. The outside should of course match.

Not to pick on you but here’s the dance of the seven veils on youtube. Nowadays it’s a belly dance but looks quite fun:

youtube.com/watch?v=sTGJVeTy43k&feature=fvw

 

[Cracker_Mom]

If you have even read through any of my posts I have said again and again that women should not be forced to do anything. Yes we should dress modestly, just as we should love our neighbor and go to Mass. I never said women should be forced to do anything.

It should be joyful to do what is right because we know we are pleasing God and turning from sin. That’s why I’m a thousand times happier now, adhering to the teachings of the Church, then I was five years ago, doing whatever I felt like.

I think we should be free to dress how we want, however just because we are free to wear what we want doesn’t mean we should.

I hear you, but was only pointing out an instance where dressing “modestly” would not necessarily bring joy to a woman. For any woman who has been placed in subjection or received abuse, some issues raise red flags.
I’m all for modesty, too.And women’s rights.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I hear you, but was only pointing out an instance where dressing “modestly” would not necessarily bring joy to a woman. For any woman who has been placed in subjection or received abuse, some issues raise red flags.
I’m all for modesty, too.And women’s rights.

As someone who has been in two physically abusive relationships (before I met my husband) I can’t say that I agree with the blanket statement that it would raise red flags for “any woman.” It doesn’t raise red flags for me. It’s the right thing to do, so I do it. It doesn’t have to do with anything that anyone has ever done to me. It has to do with doing what’s right and not creating near occasions of sin for anyone else (I know many of you aren’t going to agree with me on this one).

I absolutely agree that women should be able to choose how they dress. I’ve maintained that the entire time. But I don’t feel choosing to dress modestly automatically raises red flags. It’s about respecting my body and my relationship with God.

I do wonder how much the issue is about being subjected and how much it’s about people just wanting to do what they want to do and not caring about whether it’s right or wrong. I’m not saying that that’s the case for anyone here, but I do think it’s often the case in our modern world. We’ve grown up with the idea of freedom being such a central issue that I think we ignore the fact that while we are free to do something, it doesn’t make it right.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

As someone who has been in two physically abusive relationships (before I met my husband) I can’t say that I agree with the blanket statement that it would raise red flags for “any woman.” It doesn’t raise red flags for me. It’s the right thing to do, so I do it. It doesn’t have to do with anything that anyone has ever done to me. It has to do with doing what’s right and not creating near occasions of sin for anyone else (I know many of you aren’t going to agree with me on this one).

I absolutely agree that women should be able to choose how they dress. I’ve maintained that the entire time. But I don’t feel choosing to dress modestly automatically raises red flags. It’s about respecting my body and my relationship with God.

I do wonder how much the issue is about being subjected and how much it’s about people just wanting to do what they want to do and not caring about whether it’s right or wrong. I’m not saying that that’s the case for anyone here, but I do think it’s often the case in our modern world. We’ve grown up with the idea of freedom being such a central issue that I think we ignore the fact that while we are free to do something, it doesn’t make it right.

Could be wrong, but I kind of doubt the folks who just do what they want to do for the heck of it spend much time at a site called Catholic Answers.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Could be wrong, but I kind of doubt the folks who just do what they want to do for the heck of it spend much time at a site called Catholic Answers.

…but wouldn’t that apply to just about any topic on CAF? If that’s the argument, why would we debate anything…

 

[Cracker_Mom]

…but wouldn’t that apply to just about any topic on CAF? If that’s the argument, why would we debate anything…

Not meant as an arguement. Just thinking that most of us responding to this post are approaching it from Catholic or Christian perspectives which may differ- not because we are dressing anyway we please for the heck of it without regard to morality, but because we have varying definitions of what constitutes modesty based upon our culture, experiences & upbringing.
My family’s observed that some converts & those coming from troubled pasts may overreact to what they perceive as immodest attire.Witness some Catholic families at homeschooling events that resemble Mennonites in their dress. It’s a free country & completely OK to dress in old timey garb if you want to, the problem occurs when they wish to transfer that on as a standard of "holiness"to society or to Catholics as a whole.It gets a little weird.I’ve had some conversations with families-Catholic & non- who’ve adopted Amish-type dress & pretty much in each case they were retreating from a former non-Christian lifestyle.And in a couple of cases there was a frightening sense of isolation & the wife & kids were under a complete & unhealthy control by the dad.
Dressing modestly as an American or Western European Catholic involves more complex decision making than having a rigid dress code like the Anabaptists do.It’s not that clear cut.We need to use common sense & dress with dignity but not overreact or retreat to a former time-appealing as that may sometimes seem in this rather depraved age.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Not meant as an arguement. Just thinking that most of us responding to this post are approaching it from Catholic or Christian perspectives which may differ- not because we are dressing anyway we please for the heck of it without regard to morality, but because we have varying definitions of what constitutes modesty based upon our culture, experiences & upbringing.
My family’s observed that some converts & those coming from troubled pasts may overreact to what they perceive as immodest attire.Witness some Catholic families at homeschooling events that resemble Mennonites in their dress. It’s a free country & completely OK to dress in old timey garb if you want to, the problem occurs when they wish to transfer that on as a standard of "holiness"to society or to Catholics as a whole.It gets a little weird.I’ve had some conversations with families-Catholic & non- who’ve adopted Amish-type dress & pretty much in each case they were retreating from a former non-Christian lifestyle.And in a couple of cases there was a frightening sense of isolation & the wife & kids were under a complete & unhealthy control by the dad.
Dressing modestly as an American or Western European Catholic involves more complex decision making than having a rigid dress code like the Anabaptists do.It’s not that clear cut.We need to use common sense & dress with dignity but not overreact or retreat to a former time-appealing as that may sometimes seem in this rather depraved age.

Is retreating from a non-Christian lifestyle supposed to be negative in this scenario? I don’t want to sound argumentative, but it makes it sound like dressing modestly is a bad thing. I just think that it’s something that women should be conscious of and should prayerfully consider, because I don’t think very many people do think much about it these days.

I’m not advocating covering completely up. But it bothers me that dressing modestly is, by many women, looked at negatively. The other day I took my daughter to the park after Mass and there was a playgroup of mom’s there, in short shorts and tanks tops that were about my age. I didn’t think too much of it, it’s our culture and while I wouldn’t choose them I know that they really don’t think they’re doing anything wrong. However, after we left my husband pointed out the glares I had been getting (and trying to ignore) the whole time we were there. I was wearing a skirt and a sweater with short sleeves, nothing close to Amish dress.

And there was another thread where a girl said she felt called to cover up more and quite a few women jumped on and told her no there was no need to. It doesn’t bother me that some women dress in a way I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing, it bothers me that they feel the need to “empower” other women to do the same thing.

Retreating from sin should be considered a victory, not a reaction.

Now we’re leaving to go see the inlaws in Boston, so I may not have internet for a few days (maybe we will) if I don’t respond. I’ll check back in when I can! Have a nice week!

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Is retreating from a non-Christian lifestyle supposed to be negative in this scenario? I don’t want to sound argumentative, but it makes it sound like dressing modestly is a bad thing. I just think that it’s something that women should be conscious of and should prayerfully consider, because I don’t think very many people do think much about it these days.

I’m not advocating covering completely up. But it bothers me that dressing modestly is, by many women, looked at negatively. The other day I took my daughter to the park after Mass and there was a playgroup of mom’s there, in short shorts and tanks tops that were about my age. I didn’t think too much of it, it’s our culture and while I wouldn’t choose them I know that they really don’t think they’re doing anything wrong. However, after we left my husband pointed out the glares I had been getting (and trying to ignore) the whole time we were there. I was wearing a skirt and a sweater with short sleeves, nothing close to Amish dress.

And there was another thread where a girl said she felt called to cover up more and quite a few women jumped on and told her no there was no need to. It doesn’t bother me that some women dress in a way I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing, it bothers me that they feel the need to “empower” other women to do the same thing.

Retreating from sin should be considered a victory, not a reaction.

Now we’re leaving to go see the inlaws in Boston, so I may not have internet for a few days (maybe we will) if I don’t respond. I’ll check back in when I can! Have a nice week!

I don’t think retreating is a good game plan in general-nor over-reacting.
Personal common sense choice in clothes should be just that.No more, no less.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I don’t think retreating is a good game plan in general-nor over-reacting.
Personal common sense choice in clothes should be just that.No more, no less.

Really, so advocating fleeing from near occasions of sin is a bad thing? I disagree completely. So does the Catholic Church. Think of what you say every time you say the Act of Contrition after confession.

And would you say that Saint Augustine’s life was simply an over reaction to his life before his conversion?

Modesty is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Every aspect of our lives is a choice, and choices either bring us closer to God or push us further away. While some choices are dramatic and some are less dramatic, it’s what we do in our everyday life that brings us closer to God. Each tiny act and decision.

So yes, I think it’s wise to flee from sin and near occasions of sin as we strive to do God’s will.

I feel like I’ve heard a lot of talk about “freedom” and “choices” and not much about God’s will in our lives. I think that is very, very sad.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Really, so advocating fleeing from near occasions of sin is a bad thing? I disagree completely. So does the Catholic Church. Think of what you say every time you say the Act of Contrition after confession.

And would you say that Saint Augustine’s life was simply an over reaction to his life before his conversion?

Modesty is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Every aspect of our lives is a choice, and choices either bring us closer to God or push us further away. While some choices are dramatic and some are less dramatic, it’s what we do in our everyday life that brings us closer to God. Each tiny act and decision.

So yes, I think it’s wise to flee from sin and near occasions of sin as we strive to do God’s will.

I feel like I’ve heard a lot of talk about “freedom” and “choices” and not much about God’s will in our lives. I think that is very, very sad.

It’s through our free will, which is also a gift, that we are able to make the right choices.They need to be our free choices, not ones made through subjection or intimidation.Or a misunderstanding of what the Church requires of us.Sometimes folks who have come back to the Faith or come from a troubled past, try impose more than what the Church requires.
Modesty is indeed a gift, but one we freely choose & understand through our differing cultures.And the repression of women is often cloaked behind the virtues of imposed dress codes.
Again, I’m all for true modesty, but as a woman I see red flags going up re. some of the issues surrounding this discussion.

 

[whatevergirl]

Really, so advocating fleeing from near occasions of sin is a bad thing? I disagree completely. So does the Catholic Church. Think of what you say every time you say the Act of Contrition after confession.

And would you say that Saint Augustine’s life was simply an over reaction to his life before his conversion?

Modesty is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Every aspect of our lives is a choice, and choices either bring us closer to God or push us further away. While some choices are dramatic and some are less dramatic, it’s what we do in our everyday life that brings us closer to God. Each tiny act and decision.

So yes, I think it’s wise to flee from sin and near occasions of sin as we strive to do God’s will.

I feel like I’ve heard a lot of talk about “freedom” and “choices” and not much about God’s will in our lives. I think that is very, very sad.

I like your point. Hi Red Sox Wife!

And to go further, truly, our ‘free’ will should align with God’s will. Our will should be His will…when we are walking closer and closer to God, we want His will to be ours. We don’t have our free will, and ask God to follow along. lol

I think you and Cracker Mom are right, just mesh the two thought processes together, and you have what I think. *

 

[BiologyBrain]

Wow - I just found this post - all 12 pages of it! I made the quoted comment in the OP, so I’m going to expound on my reasoning at the time of the original quoted comment…

At that point on another similar thread, someone else had mentioned a story where a virtuous woman (I’m not sure if she was a nun or not) walked down a street or at least in view of others. However, her body language, dignity, and demeanor did not cause the scandal that many would have thought. Instead, it was obvious that this virtuous woman respected herself & did not necessarily need clothing to cover her body to make her virtuous.

There was another story of two priests (I think) walking down the street & meeting a pair of prostitutes. One looked them in the eye and smiled. His companion rebuked him saying he should keep his eyes downcast when passing a fallen woman. One of the women remarked to the other that the man that looked her in the eye gave her respect for herself. This woman later converted & gave up her prostitute ways.

In other words, how we dress has very little effect on our true nature if we behave appropriately. Pope JPII ordered the replacement of many of the ‘covered’ nudes in the Vatican b/c there is nothing inherently sinful about the naked body. Its how it is perceived and how it is presented that becomes problematic. Remember, Jesus was stripped of His garments, not to incite lust, but instead to humiliate. However, due to His strength of character and pious nature, I doubt His nakedness caused Him a moments humiliation. The same can be said of some of the saints (both male & female) who were abused for their piety. Even when stripped naked and/or threatened w/ rape or assault, their steadfastness was obvious and their shining examples live on today.

The clothes do not make the man or woman holy. What makes them holy is their behavior and the perception of the on-lookers. I do not advocate in any way parading around naked to test this theory. Instead, I advocate dressing appropriately for the situtation (that’s to your own opinion) and carrying yourself with the dignity God gave us. If you present an image of dignity and prudence, others will most likely see that no matter how you’re dressed.

 

[BiologyBrain]

Also, to actually answer the question posted as the title of the thread… It depends on the situation how to behave. However, there are certain ‘rules’ that IMO should be followed.

1. Respect yourself - body & soul.
2. If the situation is not private, do not behave in a manner that is not publicly acceptable (don’t have relations on the sidewalk, or perform lap dances on a picnic table in a park).
3. Dress to suit yourself - body & soul.

Something I personally do is pair items that could be considered immodest by some w/ something completely unobjectionable. For instance, to day I’m wearing a sleeveless polo-type shirt w/ long full-cut capris (almost gauchos). Although I’m baring my arms, my legs are mostly covered & the full-cut of the capris is actually similar to an 1800s walking/riding skirt. When I wear shorts I generally wear a full cut t-shirt w/ at minimum cap sleeves. If my shirt is a v-neck, I make a conscious effort not to bend over to allow my breasts to poke out or a man’s eye to see down to my navel. If I wear pants that are either somewhat loose in the waist, low cut in the waist, or tight in the buttocks, I make a conscious effort not to bend from the hips in front of anyone. I usually also pair those type of pants w/ shirts that are long (cover at least the hips).

I’m sure some people could easily say that I shouldn’t wear certain items if I realize that they can cause troubles. However, I’m not made of money & my body seems lately to be in a constant state of change. First when I got pregnant w/ my first my breasts rapidly outgrew my belly (I went from a C to a DDD before 20 weeks w/ no belly). Then my hips seemed to expand as my pregnancy progressed (but I still didn’t have much of a belly), so my pants became tighter in the hips. Then when my belly finally grew I got to wear maternity clothes - thank God! Then after delivery the process sort of went backwards. Then I got pregnant again. Started some changes, but miscarried, so back to ‘normal’. Then it happened again (pregnant, changes, miscarriage, ‘normal’). Now I’m pregnant again & almost 19 weeks w/ no belly, but enlarged breasts & slightly spreading hips, but no belly. With a body like mine, I try to buy w/ room to grow, but not so large as to fall off, but still good for my body shape. Its difficult, but I am confident that my presentation of self (regardless of dress) is enough to assure that I’m not intentionally leading anyone astray.

 

[lobster]

I hear you, but was only pointing out an instance where dressing “modestly” would not necessarily bring joy to a woman. For any woman who has been placed in subjection or received abuse, some issues raise red flags.
I’m all for modesty, too.And women’s rights.

Wouldn’t that seem to be a lot like moral relativism though? If what is moral and good becomes dependent upon ones past experiences? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

It’s through our free will, which is also a gift, that we are able to make the right choices.They need to be our free choices, not ones made through subjection or intimidation.Or a misunderstanding of what the Church requires of us.Sometimes folks who have come back to the Faith or come from a troubled past, try impose more than what the Church requires.

So what do you say the Church requires of us regarding modesty of either dress or action?

Modesty is indeed a gift, but one we freely choose & understand through our differing cultures.And the repression of women is often cloaked behind the virtues of imposed dress codes.
Again, I’m all for true modesty, but as a woman I see red flags going up re. some of the issues surrounding this discussion.

So would you say that modesty in

clothing is: Anything that is culturally the current norm. Attire outside of the norm draws undue attention, and is therefore immodest. How much of ones body is exposed does not matter so long as it is culturally acceptable.

action is: women should be free to act in any way they want. Men need to control themselves in thought.

Considering that, what do you define as true modesty.

 

[GraceDK]

Wow - I just found this post - all 12 pages of it! I made the quoted comment in the OP, so I’m going to expound on my reasoning at the time of the original quoted comment…

At that point on another similar thread, someone else had mentioned a story where a virtuous woman (I’m not sure if she was a nun or not) walked down a street or at least in view of others. However, her body language, dignity, and demeanor did not cause the scandal that many would have thought. Instead, it was obvious that this virtuous woman respected herself & did not necessarily need clothing to cover her body to make her virtuous.

There was another story of two priests (I think) walking down the street & meeting a pair of prostitutes. One looked them in the eye and smiled. His companion rebuked him saying he should keep his eyes downcast when passing a fallen woman. One of the women remarked to the other that the man that looked her in the eye gave her respect for herself. This woman later converted & gave up her prostitute ways.

In other words, how we dress has very little effect on our true nature if we behave appropriately. Pope JPII ordered the replacement of many of the ‘covered’ nudes in the Vatican b/c there is nothing inherently sinful about the naked body. Its how it is perceived and how it is presented that becomes problematic. Remember, Jesus was stripped of His garments, not to incite lust, but instead to humiliate. However, due to His strength of character and pious nature, I doubt His nakedness caused Him a moments humiliation. The same can be said of some of the saints (both male & female) who were abused for their piety. Even when stripped naked and/or threatened w/ rape or assault, their steadfastness was obvious and their shining examples live on today.

The clothes do not make the man or woman holy. What makes them holy is their behavior and the perception of the on-lookers. I do not advocate in any way parading around naked to test this theory. Instead, I advocate dressing appropriately for the situtation (that’s to your own opinion) and carrying yourself with the dignity God gave us. If you present an image of dignity and prudence, others will most likely see that no matter how you’re dressed.

:clapping::tiphat: You just eloquently wrote down my chaotic thoughts…

 

[lobster]

Really, so advocating fleeing from near occasions of sin is a bad thing? I disagree completely. So does the Catholic Church. Think of what you say every time you say the Act of Contrition after confession.

And would you say that Saint Augustine’s life was simply an over reaction to his life before his conversion?

Modesty is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Every aspect of our lives is a choice, and choices either bring us closer to God or push us further away. While some choices are dramatic and some are less dramatic, it’s what we do in our everyday life that brings us closer to God. Each tiny act and decision.

So yes, I think it’s wise to flee from sin and near occasions of sin as we strive to do God’s will.

I feel like I’ve heard a lot of talk about “freedom” and “choices” and not much about God’s will in our lives. I think that is very, very sad.

You make a very good point about temptation and the near occasions of sin. I also believe the Church gives us an obligation to avoid the near occasions of sin to the best of our ability. It brings to mind a couple of thoughts;
If you play with fire, you will get burned.
Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[lobster]

And to go further, truly, our ‘free’ will should align with God’s will. Our will should be His will…when we are walking closer and closer to God, we want His will to be ours. We don’t have our free will, and ask God to follow along.

Truly, you are wise. I think it is more important to align our will with His than to try to meet the current social or cultural standard. It seems that modesty is second rate by most of the world’s cultural standards.

 

[lobster]

Wow - I just found this post - all 12 pages of it! I made the quoted comment in the OP, so I’m going to expound on my reasoning at the time of the original quoted comment…

My apologies, I quoted you from another thread and did not know how to notify you. I haven’t figured out the messaging system here yet. Someday…
Hope you don’t mind.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts:

At that point on another similar thread, someone else had mentioned a story where a virtuous woman (I’m not sure if she was a nun or not) walked down a street or at least in view of others. However, her body language, dignity, and demeanor did not cause the scandal that many would have thought. Instead, it was obvious that this virtuous woman respected herself & did not necessarily need clothing to cover her body to make her virtuous.

There was another story of two priests (I think) walking down the street & meeting a pair of prostitutes. One looked them in the eye and smiled. His companion rebuked him saying he should keep his eyes downcast when passing a fallen woman. One of the women remarked to the other that the man that looked her in the eye gave her respect for herself. This woman later converted & gave up her prostitute ways.

In other words, how we dress has very little effect on our true nature if we behave appropriately. Pope JPII ordered the replacement of many of the ‘covered’ nudes in the Vatican b/c there is nothing inherently sinful about the naked body. Its how it is perceived and how it is presented that becomes problematic. Remember, Jesus was stripped of His garments, not to incite lust, but instead to humiliate. However, due to His strength of character and pious nature, I doubt His nakedness caused Him a moments humiliation. The same can be said of some of the saints (both male & female) who were abused for their piety. Even when stripped naked and/or threatened w/ rape or assault, their steadfastness was obvious and their shining examples live on today.

The clothes do not make the man or woman holy. What makes them holy is their behavior and the perception of the on-lookers. I do not advocate in any way parading around naked to test this theory. Instead, I advocate dressing appropriately for the situtation (that’s to your own opinion) and carrying yourself with the dignity God gave us. If you present an image of dignity and prudence, others will most likely see that no matter how you’re dressed.

Is modest dress something that is defined individually by each’s own opinion for a given situation? I am only asking, because it seems other information that I find on the subject or that people give is either vague or highly opinionated without appropriate Church references to back it up.
How about “presenting an image of dignity and prudence”. I would love if you could expound on that some. That is exactly the intent of this thread.
Thanks.

 

[lobster]

Also, to actually answer the question posted as the title of the thread… It depends on the situation how to behave. However, there are certain ‘rules’ that IMO should be followed.

1. Respect yourself - body & soul.
2. If the situation is not private, do not behave in a manner that is not publicly acceptable (don’t have relations on the sidewalk, or perform lap dances on a picnic table in a park).
3. Dress to suit yourself - body & soul.

Something I personally do is pair items that could be considered immodest by some w/ something completely unobjectionable. For instance, to day I’m wearing a sleeveless polo-type shirt w/ long full-cut capris (almost gauchos). Although I’m baring my arms, my legs are mostly covered & the full-cut of the capris is actually similar to an 1800s walking/riding skirt. When I wear shorts I generally wear a full cut t-shirt w/ at minimum cap sleeves. If my shirt is a v-neck, I make a conscious effort not to bend over to allow my breasts to poke out or a man’s eye to see down to my navel. If I wear pants that are either somewhat loose in the waist, low cut in the waist, or tight in the buttocks, I make a conscious effort not to bend from the hips in front of anyone. I usually also pair those type of pants w/ shirts that are long (cover at least the hips).

I’m sure some people could easily say that I shouldn’t wear certain items if I realize that they can cause troubles. However, I’m not made of money & my body seems lately to be in a constant state of change. First when I got pregnant w/ my first my breasts rapidly outgrew my belly (I went from a C to a DDD before 20 weeks w/ no belly). Then my hips seemed to expand as my pregnancy progressed (but I still didn’t have much of a belly), so my pants became tighter in the hips. Then when my belly finally grew I got to wear maternity clothes - thank God! Then after delivery the process sort of went backwards. Then I got pregnant again. Started some changes, but miscarried, so back to ‘normal’. Then it happened again (pregnant, changes, miscarriage, ‘normal’). Now I’m pregnant again & almost 19 weeks w/ no belly, but enlarged breasts & slightly spreading hips, but no belly. With a body like mine, I try to buy w/ room to grow, but not so large as to fall off, but still good for my body shape. Its difficult, but I am confident that my presentation of self (regardless of dress) is enough to assure that I’m not intentionally leading anyone astray.

I replied to fast and didn’t see your following post. Thanks for expounding.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Wouldn’t that seem to be a lot like moral relativism though? If what is moral and good becomes dependent upon ones past experiences? Or am I misinterpreting what you are saying?

So what do you say the Church requires of us regarding modesty of either dress or action?

So would you say that modesty in

clothing is: Anything that is culturally the current norm. Attire outside of the norm draws undue attention, and is therefore immodest. How much of ones body is exposed does not matter so long as it is culturally acceptable.

action is: women should be free to act in any way they want. Men need to control themselves in thought.

Considering that, what do you define as true modesty.

As a Catholic, I would consult the Catechism for answers to these questions.