How should women act so as not to draw undue attention?

[lobster]

This following was taking from the thread “It’s summer now. How would you show off your body”, but it sparked a related topic:

If I’m dressed modestly, even in a 2 piece swim suit, and present myself modestly (no leg spawling, provocative motions, etc) then I’m doing my best to preserve my modesty as well as those around me. However, if someone lusts after me simply b/c of any skin that’s showing, its not my sin - its theirs for lusting. As long as I am trying to be modest (in clothing & presentation), I am within my limits/duty.

What would be considered acceptable mannerisms, methods of walking, sitting, standing, posture, etc that women should maintain in order to keep from drawing undue attention from men in regards to modesty? It seems that many women maintain that clothing doesn’t much matter so much as the actions of the wearer behind them. The claim was made that a fully dressed nun in habit could be more scandalous than a naked women who presents herself modestly. What actions would be considered unacceptable or immodest or even sinful for any woman to perform? making “come hither” glances, running, or exercising for example, stretching in public, lifting ones arms past a certain height, certain motions, etc…? What other actions come to mind that are unbecoming of a dignified woman who wishes to preserve the virtue of modesty and not lead others to sin? Or possibly a better question is, rather than ask what actions are sinful, what mannerisms should women use in order not to tempt others?
I believe there is a lot of good ideas which can be picked up from old Victorian sensibilities as to how women should act. Thoughts?

 

[SophieG]

No running? I think that’s taking it a little too far. How about no provocative looks, no scratching or rearranging of private areas, and no sitting sprawled in a chair with your legs spread far apart. No stretching way up if it exposes you. No behind or breast waggling dances. It’s all pretty much common sense.

 

[Equites_Christi]

As a man, I can say that how you dress does matter, at least for me. A woman could act modest, but if she’s wearing a tank top that reveals a lot of cleavage and a skimpy miniskirt it’s arresting, to say the least, and your modest behavior doesn’t receive a lot of attention. Then again, this is from a man who has been engrossed in sin for a few years now
Still fighting!

 

[Pug]

How to not draw undue attention? Don’t stand out. It’s that simple. No pole dancing, straddling chairs backwards, kickboxing, gyrating, slithery cat stretches, etc. And don’t send out invitations. The type where you look someone head to toe and slyly smile, or where you lean in close or place your hand on a man’s thigh, etc. Also, as annoying as it may be, exuberant spirits can attract attention.

 

[StGerardMajella]

Pick up a copy of Thomas Kempis’ book, The Imitation of Christ. It’s a short book, and an easy read — and a classic.

There are several admonitions and nuggets of advice in this book that apply directly to this question.

 

[Andrea22]

I don’t think that a two piece bathing suit is modest… especially if the woman has a large bust… there are some very pretty one piece suits out there…

 

[RedSoxWife]

I hate to say it, but even if you act modestly (and I am rather skeptical that you can act modestly if your practically naked), if you’re dressed in a skimpy, revealing outfit, you’re creating a situation that will very possibly be a near occasion of sin (or an actual occasion of sin) for someone else. I’m not sure why anyone would want to risk exposing someone else to that sort of temptation.

Sure woman who are half naked (or almost all naked) get a lot of attention, but is it the kind of attention that anyone really wants?

 

[Salonika]

Or possibly a better question is, rather than ask what actions are sinful, what mannerisms should women use in order not to tempt others

Think such a list would have very limited value. Yes, there would be some mannerisms or actions that most people would put on a list to avoid but there would be lots of debate over others and some of the debate would reflect factors such as age, where people live, their cultural background and their personalities.

I also have an aversion to such lists because many actions are situational and because they can be used to restrict women and girl’s lives.

Also if females become so concerned that they might tempt some they may do the restricting themselves.

Further I think that setting such requirements actually belittles men, as if they have no control when they are tempted.

lobster:

I believe there is a lot of good ideas which can be picked up from old Victorian sensibilities as to how women should act. Thoughts?

Victorian ideas reflected Victorian society - a society that hardly encouraged the full development of women considering, on the whole, women to be the property of first their fathers (brothers or uncle if their father was dead), then their husband, and maybe in the last phase of their life by their sons if they were widows. Those who remained single were usually pitied.

A final comment I sometimes wonder if behaving and dressing very different from the norm can backfire by drawing attention to the wearer or the person whose ways of talking and doing are different eg not looking directly at who you are speaking to, speaking in a very low sweet voice or walking in such a way that you are not noticed.

 

[yellowbird]

No running or excercising?

Umm…no thanks. I run to stay healthy for myself and my family who love me. If it bothers someone to see me run by in shorts and sleeveless t-shirt worn over appropriate supportive undergarments, it’s THEIR problem - NOT mine.

 

[AdriannaJean]

I think it is neither mannerisms nor clothing that make a woman modest, it is a combination of the two. It doesn’t matter if my manners are impeccable, if I wear lingerie downtown I am being immodest. Same goes, I could wear a turtleneck and a floor-length skirt but if I make lewd jokes or sexual bodily gestures, I am being immodest.

I find that a woman’s speech is just as important a factor as clothing and body language. I would say no lewd jokes, ignoring/playing dumb when sexual advances or jokes are made and speaking about people in the same way she would if they were standing next to her are important. Swear words are unbecoming, so is anything offensive.

I see nothing wrong with a two piece bathing suit in its proper context (think tanning, not beach volleyball). Anything where a lot of movement is involved, and therefore the chances of a “wardrobe malfunction” happening are greater, more coverage is required for modesty. It also depends on body type. A woman with an A-cup could get away with wearing Shirt X to church while a more well endowed woman would get odd looks in a club. Dress to suit your body.

When it comes to body language, nothing that could be taken as sexual. Someone pointed out straddling chairs, good one! I hadn’t thought of that before. I wouldn’t go as far as saying it’s immoral to slouch but good posture gives off “I’m dignified” vibes so people will treat you differently if you sit up straight with your ankles crossed.

But as a general rule, act, dress and speak like a lady if you want to be treated like one!

 

[SophieG]

I don’t think that a two piece bathing suit is modest…

Ever? Why not? I have a two-piece, and it covers more than my one piece from a few years ago. I agree with the poster who said that it depends on body type a lot–I haven’t got much to flaunt!

 

[yellowbird]

Ever? Why not? I have a two-piece, and it covers more than my one piece from a few years ago. I agree with the poster who said that it depends on body type a lot–I haven’t got much to flaunt!

I agree… I wear a two piece because it is much more modest than the 1 pieces I saw in the store. The bottoms are swim “shorts” and the top is a halter type thing that meets the shorts. No stomach showing at all. (which is a good thing after 5 kids!)

I like Lands’ End for bathing suits. They are cute & fairly modest IMO.

 

[lobster]

I hate to say it, but even if you act modestly (and I am rather skeptical that you can act modestly if your practically naked), if you’re dressed in a skimpy, revealing outfit, you’re creating a situation that will very possibly be a near occasion of sin (or an actual occasion of sin) for someone else. I’m not sure why anyone would want to risk exposing someone else to that sort of temptation.

Sure woman who are half naked (or almost all naked) get a lot of attention, but is it the kind of attention that anyone really wants?

I tend to agree with with you, than it would be rather difficult for someone with practically no clothing on to act modestly in a way which does pose a temptation to others.

 

[lobster]

Victorian ideas reflected Victorian society - a society that hardly encouraged the full development of women considering, on the whole, women to be the property of first their fathers (brothers or uncle if their father was dead), then their husband, and maybe in the last phase of their life by their sons if they were widows. Those who remained single were usually pitied.

I do realize that, but I don’t mean that Victorian ideas and life style are something to emulate. I am only referring to some of the mannerisms which were used at that time. I think some of might be of some value.

A final comment I sometimes wonder if behaving and dressing very different from the norm can backfire by drawing attention to the wearer or the person whose ways of talking and doing are different eg not looking directly at who you are speaking to, speaking in a very low sweet voice or walking in such a way that you are not noticed.

I would guess that anything which makes one stand out like a ‘sore thumb’ is probably detrimental as it would tend to draw undue attention to oneself.

 

[lobster]

I think it is neither mannerisms nor clothing that make a woman modest, it is a combination of the two. It doesn’t matter if my manners are impeccable, if I wear lingerie downtown I am being immodest. Same goes, I could wear a turtleneck and a floor-length skirt but if I make lewd jokes or sexual bodily gestures, I am being immodest.

I agree with this 100%, though many seem to claim that clothing makes no difference, it is the actions of the wearer that determine if someone is being modest. I have a hard time buying that argument.

 

[aicirt]

Don’t draw undue attention to oneself by wearing shorts while serving Communion.

Couldn’t believe the woman would do such a thing, but she did.

 

[daeve]

How about the way men behave? Why do we only focus on women? There are plenty of men who behave badly in public. And, Lobster, I’m still not wearing a hat.

 

[RedSoxWife]

Think such a list would have very limited value. Yes, there would be some mannerisms or actions that most people would put on a list to avoid but there would be lots of debate over others and some of the debate would reflect factors such as age, where people live, their cultural background and their personalities.

Such a list might have limited value in a society with Christian values and norms that were actually seen in popular culture. In an age when pretty much anything goes and personal gratification is the norm I think a list of proper behavior could be helpful. With the help of the Bible we could come up with such a list, but it might be too shocking (and yes restrictive) when everyone, men and woman realize that they’re supposed to be obedient to God. Obedient isn’t fashionable these days.

I also have an aversion to such lists because many actions are situational and because they can be used to restrict women and girl’s lives.

Also if females become so concerned that they might tempt some they may do the restricting themselves.

Further I think that setting such requirements actually belittles men, as if they have no control when they are tempted.

So, avoiding near occasions of sin belittles people because they should be strong enough to stand up to the sin? Hmmm… I’ll have to remember that next time I’m saying the act of contrition.

Victorian ideas reflected Victorian society - a society that hardly encouraged the full development of women considering, on the whole, women to be the property of first their fathers (brothers or uncle if their father was dead), then their husband, and maybe in the last phase of their life by their sons if they were widows. Those who remained single were usually pitied.

You’re right the Victorians didn’t have it right. Neither does our modern, secular society. I wouldn’t look to either one for how to live a godly life.

A final comment I sometimes wonder if behaving and dressing very different from the norm can backfire by drawing attention to the wearer or the person whose ways of talking and doing are different eg not looking directly at who you are speaking to, speaking in a very low sweet voice or walking in such a way that you are not noticed.

So we shouldn’t draw attention to ourselves by covering our bodies? Instead we should conform to the social norm of showing off what we got? Sorry, in and out of Church this is wrong.

And if so many other woman weren’t dressed inappropriately (again, both in and out of church) it wouldn’t draw attention to the woman who are dressed properly.

Even those who have their heads covered wouldn’t stand out so much (like I’m about to in a couple hours) simply for following the Bible.

I certainly don’t want to stand out, but I’m not going to compromise a single on of my beliefs to blend in with the crowd.

 

[RedSoxWife]

How about the way men behave? Why do we only focus on women? There are plenty of men who behave badly in public. And, Lobster, I’m still not wearing a hat.

The men behave probably hasn’t come up here because while there are plenty of sins that men are more predisposed to acting immodest isn’t particularly high on the list. It’s not fashionable (thank goodness) for mean to wear short shorts or belly bearing shirts (I’m glad this one seems to be going out for women too).

And I’m not sure the argument that men often behave badly in public has any weight in an argument about how a godly woman should dress. Yes people sin. Men and woman. Someone else sinning doesn’t justify dressing indecently.

Now to get ready for Mass. And, as you may be able to gather from my signature, that process includes either a chapel veil or a hat.

 

[budgie2]

I wouldn’t wear one but I suppose I’m a fuddy wuddy and my mum wouldn’t wear one. If what you are wearing makes you feel self-conscious then wear something which doesn’t make you feel self-conscious. Why not cover up a bit more with a one-piece and a sarong for swimming or just some shorts and a top if it’s hot. I think some of the older swimwear was better but people are used to exposing their bodies nowadays. It’s your choice.