How should you discuss religion civilly?

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CRATUS

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I have no problem really listening to other peoples opinions on religion. I have difficulty expressing myself amidst people who feel very strongly against my core beliefs. I understand not believing in God. Someone saying my religion is a myth or false. Kind of hard to take. Or risk being called a bigot, narrowminded or sexist for having certain beliefs about marriage, gender, abortion, etc. I am certain some may find this cowardly but I do not want to debate religion. Each of us has our own interpretation. Like I never answer questions on heaven, hell, etc. I feel like it is a catch22. I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell.
 
The way you have a civil discussion about any subject is by having everyone listen and everyone respect everyone. Respect and listening should happen regardless of whether or not you agree with someone, and you should not get horrible offended by the mere fact that someone disagrees with you.

This applies to all subjects, not just religion. Addressing some of the particulars from your post–
“I have difficulty expressing myself amidst people who feel very strongly against my core beliefs.” Don’t be afraid.
“Someone saying my religion is a myth or false.” That is them being disrespectful and is not ok.
“Kind of hard to take. Or risk being called a bigot, narrowminded or sexist for having certain beliefs about marriage, gender, abortion, etc.” Don’t get upset because people are being disrespectful (such is their wrong). Don’t let that stop you from sharing your light.

"I do not want to debate religion." Nothing is wrong with not wanting to debate. You can share your life without (frequently pointless) debate.

" I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell." Don’t be afraid to admit what you don’t know.
 
Of course, the answer is by getting a copy of the Bible and smashing it over someone’s head and screaming “convert, you heretic!”

Or you could just have a nice discussion while not taking anything personally.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Of course, the answer is by getting a copy of the Bible and smashing it over someone’s head and screaming “convert, you heretic!”

Or you could just have a nice discussion while not taking anything personally.
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OK. Not easy for me to not take certain stances not personally. I will listen but I won’t debate back especially with other denomination. Some people have no problem informing me Catholic church is a satanic cult. I’ll take it. It is still rude. What is debating going to do? You already feel strongly about it. I had one experience I became way too emotional and I ended up storming off. I was younger then. I got way too emotional. I apologized. I am open to listening.
 
It is very hard to religion civilly, because religion - and in my case, secular humanism - are views that are very dear to us. I think it’s very hard to avoid causing offense. Atheists deny the existence of God and the divinity of Christ. I’m certain that this is very offensive to a lot of Christians. Similarly, I’m offended when people tell me it’s immoral to have sex before marriage or that gays should be locked up. But I’ve never reported anyone to moderators, not on this forum and not on other forums, because I think offense should be allowed in a debate. When someone in a debate claims he or she is offended, I smile. Because that generally means there are no other arguments left.

And I also agree with what jane_doe said so far.
 
Cheiron said:
It is very hard to religion civilly, because religion - and in my case, secular humanism - are views that are very dear to us. I think it’s very hard to avoid causing offense. Atheists deny the existence of God and the divinity of Christ. I’m certain that this is very offensive to a lot of Christians. Similarly, I’m offended when people tell me it’s immoral to have sex before marriage or that gays should be locked up. But I’ve never reported anyone to moderators, not on this forum and not on other forums, because I think offense should be allowed in a debate. When someone in a debate claims he or she is offended, I smile. Because that generally means there are no other arguments left.

And I also agree with what jane_doe said so far.
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Offense is part of debate I guess. It is difficult to manage to not get offended over religion. Some people are merely indifferent. For some religion determines their education, appearance, diet, etc. I handle someone saying that well they do not believe in God or Jesus but to call my religion a myth a little rude. I guess. I do not think I have ever argued with an atheist to convince them God is real. I hope not. If I have, sorry. But for some as you provided stating sex before marriage is a sin will always be offensive to someone who strongly feels otherwise.
 
Cheiron said:
When someone in a debate claims he or she is offended, I smile. Because that generally means there are no other arguments left.
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To be fair, I’d have to eliminate a lot of explanations before I’d come to that conclusion. “I’m offended by that remark” doesn’t mean “I don’t know what on earth to say to that brilliant logic of yours.” It could just be that I’m being a pompous jerk who’s so far up his own intellect that I’m bullying whoever disagrees with me. And someone could be giving me a social cue about that.
 
CRATUS said:
I have no problem really listening to other peoples opinions on religion. I have difficulty expressing myself amidst people who feel very strongly against my core beliefs. I understand not believing in God. Someone saying my religion is a myth or false. Kind of hard to take. Or risk being called a bigot, narrowminded or sexist for having certain beliefs about marriage, gender, abortion, etc. I am certain some may find this cowardly but I do not want to debate religion. Each of us has our own interpretation. Like I never answer questions on heaven, hell, etc. I feel like it is a catch22. I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell.
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Salutations,
Feeling someone is going to heaven or hell is a judgement which we cannot do. “JUDGE NOT, OR BE YE JUDGED!” WE are the church! We are Christ on earth.
We will never understand why God gave Satan domain over the earth. That is why there is evil here. Since we, are Jesus on earth, we are to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, etc. AND DO SPIRITUAL WARFARE, if called upon. Refer to priest/exorcist, if needed. I’m infering for house blessings or if severe family problems might need exorcist. We are suppose to have one in each diocese in the future.
We are the mouth of Jesus. But some are called to teaching, evangelism and exortation. Some are not. The body of Christ has many parts. What gifts do you have? We can only overcome prejudice through education and love and example.
Blessed are the persecuted in my name, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Abortion=when sperm and ova join, the zygote, is its own identity. It has its own DNA. it is initially, a clump of dividing cells in the fallopian tubes. It takes a.week? I think to travel down to uterus. There it implants and forms placenta and sac w zygote. By 3 to 4 weeks, that which will be the heart is only a tube but it starts beating w it’s own beat, not the mothers. By 4 months, it has matured past embryonic phase to a complete fetus. All formed. Just needs to grow and fine tune. If you Google infant gestation from fertilization, you will have accurate facts w you. I may be off a week. IUD’s cause abortions. Pregnancy occurs in fallopian tubes. IUD is in uterus. Morula comes down and 98% slough out. Some babies are born w IUD’S sticking out of head or body. Saw pic in nursing book. I was a critical care RN.
Heterosexual and Homosexuals are suppose to be celibate. I have feelings on homosexuality. Read. BIBLE, he loves all children but not sin. They will have to define sin. I believe civil unions are necessary but not church weddings. But you have Episcopalian priest are gay and will marry them. We have gay priest who can’t marry them in alignment w the Bible. Methodist will marry gays. It takes education and a great capacity to deliver God’s love w the message and LOVINGLY DISAGREE!!.
JEREMIAH 29 / 11 is a good quote to use. Ephesians 3 chapter 14-21. A good dose of receiving God’s love for you and debater.
Go w God and be at peace.
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Of course, the answer is by getting a copy of the Bible and smashing it over someone’s head and screaming “convert, you heretic!”

Or you could just have a nice discussion while not taking anything personally.
Click to expand...
Salutations,
For those of you who like to use Latin, a translation would be nice. I had Latin and did the Latin mass but I am rusty. I wanted to put my translatin down, which you could laugh at but your Latin didn’t cross over in quote. I don’t think I was too wrong but----?
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
 
Conoscerete la verità, e la verità vi renderà liberi.». (Giovanni 8:32)
Dedicate your faith and the faith will render/release freedom.

Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.
Lord, Jesus Christ, God’s son, have mercy on me.

How did I do?
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
Domino’s Vobiscum, etc cum Spiritu tuo.
THE Lord be with you and the Spirit w you.
 
CRATUS said:
… I am certain some may find this cowardly but I do not want to debate religion. Each of us has our own interpretation. Like I never answer questions on heaven, hell, etc. I feel like it is a catch22. I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell.
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I think I understand, Cratus, and agree at least partly. I have heard so many good arguments pro and con an issue. Then there is this: I have seen indications that on some things a large population (tens of millions) is divided “down the middle.” Not exactly 50-50, but maybe 48-52 or 40-60. How can I be certain I am on the right side of an issue? If I am so right, it must be kind of obvious since I am not a rare genius just a rather common thinking person, so how can so many people be wrong.
So numerous indeed and so powerful are the causes which serve to give a false bias to the judgment, that we, upon many occasions, see wise and good men on the wrong as well as on the right side of questions of the first magnitude to society. This circumstance, if duly attended to, would furnish a lesson of moderation to those who are ever so much persuaded of their being in the right in any controversy. And a further reason for caution, in this respect, might be drawn from the reflection that we are not always sure that those who advocate the truth are influenced by purer principles than their antagonists. Ambition, avarice, personal animosity, party opposition, and many other motives not more laudable than these, are apt to operate as well upon those who support as those who oppose the right side of a question.
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So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.
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Each soul has to figure an issue out and then hold your confidence firm, knowing that “God knows best” - our misunderstanding and honest innocent mistakes “God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.” - Hebrews 6:10 “…love covers over a multitude of sins.” - 1 Peter 4:8. God understands our limitations, will not judge us for our humanity and imperfections per se, and will correct our misunderstanding when it is important that it be corrected. Until then, the world is not straying so irreversibly far off the path that He has set it on, that He needs to interfere at present. 🙂
 
Just like St. Peter tells us. ! Peter 3:15…but here’s the thing. No matter how charitably one proclaims the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church they will be called bigot, intolerant, homophobic and any other name that the world seeks to bury the Truth in relativism. That is designed to shut you up.
 
We all make mistakes. Each soul violates his own convictions. So it is not strange to read here some suggestions about how to listen and show respect in various ways, by people who on their home turf refuse to listen, and display disrespect towards others, implying they are “uninformed” or their posts are a tiresome and sickening, stupid rehash. To accept this inconsistency is also a difficult thing. But this dichotomy is human nature; I think we cannot escape it. We have a good standard, but lack the training (as yet) to meet that standard. It’s something to work for. Better to have a standard difficult to match than one that barely challenges us. I would like to complain about this inconsistency between belief and behavior when I see it, which is often, but I know I am doing the same thing - not listening as well as I ought, and impatiently dismissing some claims that are important to a poster but not to me. Room for improvement on my part. You are wise, Cratus. None of us know how God sees our decisions, disagreements, contests, and reconciliations - except I think he likes reconciliation most of all.
 
CRATUS said:
OK. Not easy for me to not take certain stances not personally. I will listen but I won’t debate back especially with other denomination. Some people have no problem informing me Catholic church is a satanic cult. I’ll take it. It is still rude. What is debating going to do? You already feel strongly about it. I had one experience I became way too emotional and I ended up storming off. I was younger then. I got way too emotional. I apologized. I am open to listening.
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It’s certainly not easy to not take things personally, especially when someone starts with a personal attack. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Clearly the people you were speaking to have some kind of chip on their shoulders. I’ve essentially grown up listening to religious arguments and debates so I’m kind of numb to some (SOME) of that stuff. I also have a family where it’s normal to get loud and argumentative and then proceed with one’s business normally, so I’m pretty lucky in that aspect as well. In the case that you describe, these people are probably either ex-Catholics or grew up in a tradition that is hostile towards Catholicism and therefore they’re pretty invested in that mentality, so one must dislodge them little by little - or bash them over the head, whichever tactic is more effective, depending on the person. I’ve met both kinds ;).
 
tweedlealice said:
Conoscerete la verità, e la verità vi renderà liberi.». (Giovanni 8:32)
Dedicate your faith and the faith will render/release freedom.

Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.
Lord, Jesus Christ, God’s son, have mercy on me.

How did I do?
in Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
Domino’s Vobiscum, etc cum Spiritu tuo.
THE Lord be with you and the Spirit w you.
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Yes they’re both both pretty close.
The first is the Italian language version of John 8:32, (“You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free”). I just love the Italian translation of it.

The second is a pretty ancient prayer, - Lord Jesus, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Simple, elegant, powerful. I just love the Latin because on a personal level, I feel like it unites you to centuries of Church history, people, and tradition.
 
CRATUS said:
I have no problem really listening to other peoples opinions on religion. I have difficulty expressing myself amidst people who feel very strongly against my core beliefs. I understand not believing in God. Someone saying my religion is a myth or false. Kind of hard to take. Or risk being called a bigot, narrowminded or sexist for having certain beliefs about marriage, gender, abortion, etc. I am certain some may find this cowardly but I do not want to debate religion. Each of us has our own interpretation. Like I never answer questions on heaven, hell, etc. I feel like it is a catch22. I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell.
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I don’t think it’s necessarily cowardly. Cowardly would be if you are silent about your religion specifically in contexts where the people criticizing it are more powerful or prestigious. In my case, for instance, in grad school I found it hard to speak up on behalf of my faith in a roomful of professors and fellow grad students, most of them older than myself, who were very intelligent and sophisticated and prone to sarcastic remarks that tacitly assumed that all enlightened people agreed with them. (To be clear: these folks were very nice to me personally, which made it harder. I didn’t want to lose their ill will.) Typically when I tried to say something it came out really stupid, which made me more prone to hesitate next time.

At the same time, I was and have always been a religiously argumentative person who was holding forth confidently about my opinions on discussion forums like this one and in “real life” social circles where I didn’t feel intimidated.

So I think I was cowardly.

But if you just don’t naturally take to arguing about religion, there’s no shame in that. It may be that you are a better person than I am:o

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
I don’t think it’s necessarily cowardly. Cowardly would be if you are silent about your religion specifically in contexts where the people criticizing it are more powerful or prestigious. In my case, for instance, in grad school I found it hard to speak up on behalf of my faith in a roomful of professors and fellow grad students, most of them older than myself, who were very intelligent and sophisticated and prone to sarcastic remarks that tacitly assumed that all enlightened people agreed with them. (To be clear: these folks were very nice to me personally, which made it harder. I didn’t want to lose their ill will.) Typically when I tried to say something it came out really stupid, which made me more prone to hesitate next time.

At the same time, I was and have always been a religiously argumentative person who was holding forth confidently about my opinions on discussion forums like this one and in “real life” social circles where I didn’t feel intimidated.

So I think I was cowardly.

But if you just don’t naturally take to arguing about religion, there’s no shame in that. It may be that you are a better person than I am:o

Edwin
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No. I guess some people may see it is as a cowardly. I am not one to think on my feet. Religious arguments are very easy to be emotional about, which is a weakness. It is not so much debating the existence of God or Christ, it is well we debate morality that it becomes ugly.
 
I don’t insist that anyone else should do this, but I’ll tell you what I do: I don’t frequent Protestant forums, but I read quite a lot of posts by Protestants (Protestant non-Catholics) here.

IDK but I like to think that they read my posts too. :cool:
 
CRATUS said:
I have no problem really listening to other peoples opinions on religion. I have difficulty expressing myself amidst people who feel very strongly against my core beliefs. I understand not believing in God. Someone saying my religion is a myth or false. Kind of hard to take. Or risk being called a bigot, narrowminded or sexist for having certain beliefs about marriage, gender, abortion, etc. I am certain some may find this cowardly but I do not want to debate religion. Each of us has our own interpretation. Like I never answer questions on heaven, hell, etc. I feel like it is a catch22. I can never know for sure who will go to heaven or hell.
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In my view you need a forum to discuss religion and an opportunity open for people to share their beliefs and experiences in a friendly atmosphere. We had a “World Religion Day” and invited representatives of the various religions to share their faith. We had a general topic and presentations were made from each person on a forum. The setting was at a University and students of religion were very appreciative. So we had representatives of Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Muslims, Jews and Baha’is.🙂
 
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