How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization

[Snow]

I don’t know if you have heard of How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas E. Woods Jr. PhD.

The premise of the book is that the what we learned in schools - that the middle ages were the dark ages, full of ignorance and suppression, not in the least part maintained by the Catholic Church - is false, and not just false but wholly and completely false. The author tells us that contrary to what we think, in fact, it is the Catholic Church that is responsible for all/much that is good and right in the modern world. He writes that the Church formed or originated:

-Western Art
-Western Music
-Modern Economics
-International Law
-Western Law
-Charity
-Hospitals
-Astronomy
-Higher Education
-Science
-and so on
-and so on
-and on and on.

Occasionally he’ll making a passing observation that the Catholic Church was less than 100% perfect but, you know, the rest is so great that all Western civilization is their doing.

First, I found the book very informative. I picked up lots of facts and a perspective I didn’t have before. However I thought it was less a book and for the most part more an awfully long list of all the many wonderful things the author could dig up.

Second, I think it is disputable that everything on the list belongs on the list. For example he attributes the University system in general and Oxford in particular to the Catholic Church. I think the Greeks were onto higher learning long before the Catholics and the Oxford website paints a different history than does the author.

Third, every one and their dog was Catholic. Of course most things, good or bad, had to arise from under the Catholic umbrella.

I don’t think the book is too balanced and certainly is a homer’s / apologist’s dream but I do recommend it to learn new things and get a different perspective, especially if you are not Catholic.

Western Civilization isn’t perfect but it’s the best we have (imho) and we owe the Catholic Church much.

 

[dzheremi]

I find the idea that “Western Civilization” (this homogenous, Central-North-Western European entity…) is qualitatively better than the societies of other geographic regions to be very strange. For balance, I would suggest Thomas C. Oden’s “How Africa Shaped the Christian Mind: Rediscovering the African Seedbed of Western Christianity” (IVP Books, 2007). The author puts forth many interesting arguments regarding the integral position of the early African Christian communities in forming what would eventually become characteristic of Christianity in Europe and elsewhere. It is by no means exhaustive (I read it in about a week of on-and-off reading over the summer), but it is definitely worth your time.

 

[Snow]

I find the idea that “Western Civilization” (this homogenous, Central-North-Western European entity…) is qualitatively better than the societies of other geographic regions to be very strange. .

Certainly,

For those that do not prefer Western Civilization, there’s always Middle Eastern Civilization of African Civilization, or whatever you like. Matter of taste I suppose.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes, the Greeks were into learning, but they would not recognize the system used today. Or even that of 1,000 years ago. They used a smaller system of one teacher and a few students in a more informal setting.

 

[reteeks21]

I find the idea that “Western Civilization” (this homogenous, Central-North-Western European entity…) is qualitatively better than the societies of other geographic regions to be very strange. For balance, I would suggest Thomas C. Oden’s “How Africa Shaped the Christian Mind: Rediscovering the African Seedbed of Western Christianity” (IVP Books, 2007). The author puts forth many interesting arguments regarding the integral position of the early African Christian communities in forming what would eventually become characteristic of Christianity in Europe and elsewhere. It is by no means exhaustive (I read it in about a week of on-and-off reading over the summer), but it is definitely worth your time.

Great point. Look at Augustine: he is one of the most influential Christians ever, and he was African! Maybe Africa isn’t a “dark” continent after all.

Also, since he was from Africa would he have been black? Not that it matters, but I think it would be worthwhile to point out that the greatest of Christians come in all different shades and shapes.

 

[Steadfast]

Well the church certainly had a lot to do with it but then, so did Greek philosophy and Roman jurisprudence.

I am inveterately Western, I look east as an interested and sympathetic observer but there is nothing in my nature which couold ever accommodate the internalization of an “oriental” outlook.

Furthermore, I think the West is the Best…yes I am just that un-PC.



But it may be that I only believe this because it’s where I live.

 

[mercygate]

I find the idea that “Western Civilization” (this homogenous, Central-North-Western European entity…) is qualitatively better than the societies of other geographic regions to be very strange. For balance, I would suggest Thomas C. Oden’s “How Africa Shaped the Christian Mind: Rediscovering the African Seedbed of Western Christianity” (IVP Books, 2007). The author puts forth many interesting arguments regarding the integral position of the early African Christian communities in forming what would eventually become characteristic of Christianity in Europe and elsewhere. It is by no means exhaustive (I read it in about a week of on-and-off reading over the summer), but it is definitely worth your time.

The “Africa” that shaped the Christian mind was Graeco-Roman.

 

[mercygate]

Great point. Look at Augustine: he is one of the most influential Christians ever, and he was African! Maybe Africa isn’t a “dark” continent after all.

Also, since he was from Africa would he have been black? Not that it matters, but I think it would be worthwhile to point out that the greatest of Christians come in all different shades and shapes.

Read the Confessions, or look at mummy portraits from the Roman period in Egypt. Blacks were there but the culture was Graeco-Roman. In the Confessions, Augustine speaks of children turning “white with jealousy.” It was a mixed society, heavily dominated by Greek and Roman influences. Cleopatra was a Greek, for Pete’s sake.

 

[notsmart]

I am curious what the non catholic contributions were to these areas in the west.

I don’t know if you have heard of How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization by Thomas E. Woods Jr. PhD.

The premise of the book is that the what we learned in schools - that the middle ages were the dark ages, full of ignorance and suppression, not in the least part maintained by the Catholic Church - is false, and not just false but wholly and completely false. The author tells us that contrary to what we think, in fact, it is the Catholic Church that is responsible for all/much that is good and right in the modern world. He writes that the Church formed or originated:

-Western Art
-Western Music
-Modern Economics
-International Law
-Western Law
-Charity
-Hospitals
-Astronomy
-Higher Education
-Science
-and so on
-and so on
-and on and on.

Occasionally he’ll making a passing observation that the Catholic Church was less than 100% perfect but, you know, the rest is so great that all Western civilization is their doing.

First, I found the book very informative. I picked up lots of facts and a perspective I didn’t have before. However I thought it was less a book and for the most part more an awfully long list of all the many wonderful things the author could dig up.

Second, I think it is disputable that everything on the list belongs on the list. For example he attributes the University system in general and Oxford in particular to the Catholic Church. I think the Greeks were onto higher learning long before the Catholics and the Oxford website paints a different history than does the author.

Third, every one and their dog was Catholic. Of course most things, good or bad, had to arise from under the Catholic umbrella.

I don’t think the book is too balanced and certainly is a homer’s / apologist’s dream but I do recommend it to learn new things and get a different perspective, especially if you are not Catholic.

Western Civilization isn’t perfect but it’s the best we have (imho) and we owe the Catholic Church much.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Thomas Wood was interviewed on Al Kresta’s show for a whole hour on June 20, 2007 about that very book. Here is the archived MP3 of the interview. (FYI, it’s a slow download from their server, and file is 13.5 MB or so)

 

[dzheremi]

To say that the blacks that were there were “Graeco-Roman” so therefore they were not “real” Africans is really ridiculous. Augustine wasn’t black to begin with - he was a Berber. Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa, and they’re pretty darn white. “African” does not equal “black”.

And they were as authentically African as any other, no matter what languages they spoke. If you want to argue otherwise, also be prepared to argue that Maimonides was an Arab, since he wrote in Arabic. Greek, Latin, etc. were languages of the wider world and no doubt known by the educated and the cosmopolitan in the cities like Alexandria and Carthage, but Christianity was not limited to urban centers and coastal areas where Westerners “brought” it. That is a myth.

There is a lot of confusion regarding the ethnic identities of the early African Christians, mainly because of the languages that they spoke and wrote in. The idea is that since they were “Greek-speaking/writing” or “Latin-speaking writing”, they can’t have been “real” Africans. That’s hogwash. Regarding languages, the Christian kingdoms of Nubia (converted by Byzantines in the 6th century, or possibly Copts earlier) were Meroitic speaking/writing, but adopted adopted Greek names, as they were heavily inflluenced by the Byzantines. Meroe was a Nilo-Saharan language, and nobody would dare say that it came from the outside! Look at the extent of its distribution within Africa: Meroe: The language of the African Christian Court in Sudan. Similarly, we see even today the Copts holding on to their traditional liturgical language (for services, not everyday speaking, of course), which is written in a variant of the Greek alphabet, but actually the last form of Ancient Egyptian! Ancient Egyptian is, of course, not a Greek or Roman import.

And a similar example could be made of the Ethiopians further south, whose liturgical language is Ge’ez (“Ancient Ethiopic”, as it is sometimes called), but who sometimes bear Greek names (ex. Tewodoros, a.ka. Theodore) since they were converted by Syrian monks at a time when Syrians would’ve spoken Greek as part of the Graeco-Roman world.

A foreign language cannot extinguish a people’s identity. Yiddish, Hebrew, Ladino, Judeo-Arabic, and Aramaic are all languages of the Jews, who remain Jews no matter what language they speak in their everyday lives. The Spanish Christians once also wrote in Mozarabic (basically, Medival Latin in Arabic script), and so retained their identities while appealing to the wider world by writing in the script of the day, so that everyone could at least read it: Mozarabic sample

African Christians writing in Greek or Latin is understandable by the same principle. These may or may not have been the first language of any one writer; either way, they are what was most fit for addressing the masses in a gigantic multi-ethnic, multi-lingual empire like that of the Romans or Byzantines.

Basically what we are arguing here is how old something needs to be in order to be considered “indigenous”. Since the first lands to be officially established as Christian kingdoms include one Eurasian (Armenia) and one African (Ethiopia), I would say that Christianity is equally at home on all continents. Truth is the same in all languages and on all continents, anyway.

Besma Ab we Wold we Menfes Qiddus Ahadu Amlak, Amen.

 

[inJESUS]

Besma Ab we Wold we Menfes Qiddus Ahadu Amlak, Amen.

ok no idea what this language is but you are saying in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit One God Amen. What language is this? Berberic?

 

[dzheremi]

Ge’ez, the language of the Ethiopian Church. It is one of those things that you pick up when learning Amharic, since the Amhara are Christian. That’s a major reason I am taking Arabic classes…lots of cognates!

 

[inJESUS]

Ge’ez, the language of the Ethiopian Church. It is one of those things that you pick up when learning Amharic, since the Amhara are Christian. That’s a major reason I am taking Arabic classes…lots of cognates!

thank you for the info ! i’ll impress my Ethiopian friends in here

now back to topic, i don’t know must about the “west” but i can say the best schools, hospitals and charity organizations in here are run by Catholic nuns and priests, starting with the French colonization and still running.

 

[YADA]

A very god read it Partick Rile’s “Civilizin Sex the Role of Chasity and the Common Good” …

read a review here … theotokos.org.uk/pages/breviews/pravint/priley.html

I think it is out of print now but you can probably find it at the library or purchase a used copy … lots of foot notes and very scholarly … but worth the read …

 

[dzheremi]

thank you for the info ! i’ll impress my Ethiopian friends in here

Here it is, “in action”, at the beginning of this Orthodox song (since I don’t know how to represent the Ethiopic ejectives that aren’t found in Arabic…the “q” in “Qiddus” is not the “q” of Arabic): Artists “Mirtinesh” and “Tizitaw” - traditional Ethiopian Orthodox song

 

[cerad]

Not to nitpick the original list but Astronomy was around for thousands of years before Jesus was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Not to nitpick the original list but Astronomy was around for thousands of years before Jesus was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye.

As Jesus is God, and has always existed, I have trouble with this statement

 

[YADA]

Not to nitpick the original list but Astronomy was around for thousands of years before Jesus was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye.

Oh contrair … Jesus was the Gnisis … [as He was there “in the beginning”] …

Jesus was before the Stars were placed into the heavens. …

And Jesus did not spring from the Lust of man [gleam in his daddy’s eye] …

Jesus is begotten - not made - one in being with the Father - God from God - Light from Light - True God from True God - One in Being with the Father …

 

[ralphinal]

Not to nitpick the original list but Astronomy was around for thousands of years before Jesus was even a gleam in his daddy’s eye.

Was it now? Or was it astrology that included graphing star charts?

I doubt they had astrophysics back then