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KathleenGee
Guest
may be tomorrow it will be better.
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GraceSofia
Guest
I know. I was shocked when I began to understand how much anti-Catholic sentiment has influenced the writing of history in the English-speaking world. However, it makes sense when you think that starting from Henry VIII there were politically correct reasons for discrediting the Catholic Church (e.g., his break from The Church and wars with Catholic Spain).
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GraceSofia
Guest
Thank you!
It is the chapter entitled How the Monks Saved Civilization so, since everybody can have access to this chapter in a one minute (I had it sent to me to see how long it took), we can easily discuss it, although it is but one chapter out of many fascinating chapters.
Everybody knows monks copied manuscripts but I was unaware of their contribution in what Dr. Woods calls the practical arts.
The monks converted the wilderness into cultivated country; they were the agriculturalists of Europe.
Because manual labour was expressly called for in the Rule of St. Benedict, the monks embraced the hard work of clearing land, draining swamps of pestilence. This embracing of work had a huge effect on civilisation in Europe; contrast it with other cultures’ disdain of work and what sort of society they produced.
Monks introduced crops, irrigation (very important in Lombardy) rearing of cattle, bee-keeping, beer-making, etc. in areas where they were unknown. Monks were responsible for directing spring water to Paris.
The Cistercians in particular used waterpower and machinery to an amazing extent. The monks were technologicaly sophisticated in metallurgy and it was likely that Henry VIII’s closing of the monasteries set back industrial developments a couple of hundred years. The Cistercian abbots had yearly meeting and so could share knowledge which was then carried back to points all over Europe. No other group had this communciation ability.
The book is crammed with interesting facts. “At its height, the Benedictine order could boast 37,000 monasteries. And it was not merely their influence within the Church … by the fourteenth century the order had already enrolled some twenty emperors, ten empresses, forty-seven kings and fifty queens.” (p. 28)
It is hard for us today to understand the pervasive influence of Christianity in society, isn’t it?
Anyway, above I have thrown out some of the things from the book that I thought were interesting. Anybody else care to read the chapter and share reactions?
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seeker57
Guest
The Catholic Church did indeed contribute to Western Civilization, but it was not the sole factor.
he Renaissance was certainly a contributor, and at times not because of the Catholic Church, but in spite of it.
But, to give the church its due, as the saying goes. it did manage to preserve at least some of the ancient writings and scientific information available prior to the fall of Rome.
The colonization of the Western Hemisphere by the Spanish, and thereby the Catholic Church, was, however, not a bright spot in this history.
As someone whose faith tradition evolved from dissidents who excluded themselves from the Catholic Church and other mainstream churches in Europe, I feel it is important to remember both the contributions of Mainstream Christianity and the inhibitions it attempted to place on progress.
Peace,
Seeker
he Renaissance was certainly a contributor, and at times not because of the Catholic Church, but in spite of it.
But, to give the church its due, as the saying goes. it did manage to preserve at least some of the ancient writings and scientific information available prior to the fall of Rome.
The colonization of the Western Hemisphere by the Spanish, and thereby the Catholic Church, was, however, not a bright spot in this history.
As someone whose faith tradition evolved from dissidents who excluded themselves from the Catholic Church and other mainstream churches in Europe, I feel it is important to remember both the contributions of Mainstream Christianity and the inhibitions it attempted to place on progress.
Peace,
Seeker
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John_Paul_Jones
Guest
So are you trying to say Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel in spite of the Catholic Church?
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John21652
Guest
And there you have it.When you show manners, not even good manners, I’ll consider responding to your . . . “thoughts.”
Curious will not debate with anyone who refutes him, because to refute him is not showing good manners!
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ESMDHokie77
Guest
Thank you!!! I’m passing this along!
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FabiusMaximus
Guest
How was the Renaissance in spite of the Catholic Church? It was the Church that essentially funded its expansion.
The Church did far more than that. It expanded upon those writings immensely. There were plenty of scientists who were faithful Catholics and additionally, much scientific work was done IN THE CHURCH.
I disagree. It is one of the greatest episodes in civilization. Western civilization arrived in the Americas, and triumphed. Without that episode, we probably wouldn’t be here debating it over the Internet.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Seeker57…Curious…
The Catholic posters are talking truth in reference to the anti-Catholic bigotry found in English speaking people.
I worked with among the best Italian missionaries in the world. We worked in a sugar company settlement, owned by the British. They were very interested in me because I was an American, I was a young woman, and – working with foreign born priests.
I was totally disgusted in time with their cutting and calumnous remarks about the Italians, to the point that they were spreading rumors about us having sex together. It turns out just about every single one of them were adulterers…as my young pastor suggested. The nicest couple came to my house to inquire about what happened. I told her I was under orders never to associate with the British there again.
During the civil war, all their homes were destroyed; the only one left standing was the nicest English’ couple’s home. And I had to be transferred to another mission as I was the cause of gossip. Eventually I returned when they all fled the town when the Marxists took power.
When people accuse others of doing ‘stuff’, as my Italian priest said, it is because they are doing it themselves.
The Catholic posters are talking truth in reference to the anti-Catholic bigotry found in English speaking people.
I worked with among the best Italian missionaries in the world. We worked in a sugar company settlement, owned by the British. They were very interested in me because I was an American, I was a young woman, and – working with foreign born priests.
I was totally disgusted in time with their cutting and calumnous remarks about the Italians, to the point that they were spreading rumors about us having sex together. It turns out just about every single one of them were adulterers…as my young pastor suggested. The nicest couple came to my house to inquire about what happened. I told her I was under orders never to associate with the British there again.
During the civil war, all their homes were destroyed; the only one left standing was the nicest English’ couple’s home. And I had to be transferred to another mission as I was the cause of gossip. Eventually I returned when they all fled the town when the Marxists took power.
When people accuse others of doing ‘stuff’, as my Italian priest said, it is because they are doing it themselves.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Seeker57,
In regards to Spain, study their history…they were plundered over and over again by the Moors for 700 years. To this very day, and this is truth----the Muslim world says it lost Spain and wants it back.
Then, turn it around…having a history like that…and the reality that many times the victims take on the behaviors of their abusers…our senior high school history teacher who was an atheist taught us that…
To have a history as Spain’s, and then with its own population to travel out into the depths of the ocean amidst all sorts of fables and unknown was a feat in itself…no other country could compare with Spain.
They brought their missionaries with them.
If you study history, you will find out that it was the Spanish speaking people in Mexico who made that country the center of learning, not the English speaking peoples. In fact, Bishop Zumarraga provided women and girls a right to an education hundreds of years before the English speaking Americans. Get Monsignor Kelly’s book, ‘Blood Drenched Altars’…it is helping Mexican people understand the magnificence of their history when it was Catholic…
In regards to Spain, study their history…they were plundered over and over again by the Moors for 700 years. To this very day, and this is truth----the Muslim world says it lost Spain and wants it back.
Then, turn it around…having a history like that…and the reality that many times the victims take on the behaviors of their abusers…our senior high school history teacher who was an atheist taught us that…
To have a history as Spain’s, and then with its own population to travel out into the depths of the ocean amidst all sorts of fables and unknown was a feat in itself…no other country could compare with Spain.
They brought their missionaries with them.
If you study history, you will find out that it was the Spanish speaking people in Mexico who made that country the center of learning, not the English speaking peoples. In fact, Bishop Zumarraga provided women and girls a right to an education hundreds of years before the English speaking Americans. Get Monsignor Kelly’s book, ‘Blood Drenched Altars’…it is helping Mexican people understand the magnificence of their history when it was Catholic…
K
KathleenGee
Guest
About the Renaissance…well…yes…great feats of man…beginning with Descartes, “I think, therefore I am”…the foundation of relativism…which is now plaguing the world.
The problem with the beginning of this era…was that man was now separating himself from God and beginning to worship his works…to today…man worshipping himself…that usually declines to an enslavement of the body.
The problem with the beginning of this era…was that man was now separating himself from God and beginning to worship his works…to today…man worshipping himself…that usually declines to an enslavement of the body.
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Curious_Seed
Guest
Stop bad mouthing those who disagree with you.And there you have it.
Curious will not debate with anyone who refutes him, because to refute him is not showing good manners!
Stop spinning rebuke for your bad behavior, as refusal to debate.
State your view or counter view, without tagging derogatory remarks about the one you disagree with.
I enjoy debate, I enjoy learning where I am wrong; I won’t abide as receptacle to abusive remarks.
Civility is the oil that permits public discourse to proceed, isn’t it?
Factor out your insults toward me and I will be pleased to address your perspectives on the subject.
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Curious_Seed
Guest
Is anybody denying there is anti-Catholic bigotry?
I don’t think anyone can deny that bigotry covers every field of human activity.
The last statement of your post shows bigotry, for example.
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KathleenGee
Guest
just like denying our history
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KathleenGee
Guest
Had phone call…
Curious…you show us what hospitals, schools, hospice, higher educational centers were erected in those times that were not Catholic
So far, we are not seeing any concrete, documented establishments given by you…that followed the collapse of the Roman Empire…
Nor do you provide any documentation about your domicile or your own belief system.
Where is your own ID?
Curious…you show us what hospitals, schools, hospice, higher educational centers were erected in those times that were not Catholic
So far, we are not seeing any concrete, documented establishments given by you…that followed the collapse of the Roman Empire…
Nor do you provide any documentation about your domicile or your own belief system.
Where is your own ID?
K
KathleenGee
Guest
About the priest’s comment…that’s not called bigotry…it is called projection when people are accusing others…for you to point out that the priest is displaying bigotry is your projection.
So as you can see how this has denigrated…you should now come forward with historical documentations instead of loaded remarks.
So as you can see how this has denigrated…you should now come forward with historical documentations instead of loaded remarks.
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Curious_Seed
Guest
Who is denying the history of the Roman Catholic Church?
Keeping the perspective that It was a prime contributor and not foundational, as the Roman and Greek Civilizations were, is not to deny the Church’s history.
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Curious_Seed
Guest
KG, I asked if you believe the institutions you mentioned were founded by the Roman Catholic Church, since you earlier attributed them as reasons the Church built Western Civilization.
Is your answer yes?
What is my ID?
I am an MI5 operative, under CIA cover, for MOSSAD, doing FSB double-duty, I think. But, I have my weekends off, except when I don’t, I think.
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Curious_Seed
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KathleenGee
Guest
Good…now where is your documentation showing parallel humanitarian organizations to the Catholics’ contribution?..
And you have to go back to comparative…did ancient Rome and Greek provide humanitarian…I mean universal help and sustenance…to non-Romans and non-Greeks in providing health care, education, moral foundation to people in society?
Providing care to those who are not Christian…Catholics are Christian…is a universal directive by Christ Himself…The Church is witness to it in contrast to pagan societies.
The Roman populace stood in line to get their quota of food…had to be entertained as the culture was founded by the time of Christ as a slave state…providing heat, water, fountains above ground while the slaves toiled in the basement.
The populace was obligated to go to the coliseums for entertainment and to avoid any form of insurrection against the Roman government. The others served in the military. The coliseums had animal and human fights. Above, during the hot sun in the day time…these buildings were a site to behold…streams of color banners went out from the sides…colorful Roman shades over the opening of the coliseums to provide shade for the people…and then about 6 pm…the vials of perfume were emitted fragrance to cover up the stench of the dead lying on the coliseum floors.
Cicero admitted the violence of emotion he himself would absorb, himself forced to watch such spectacles…in these times, children and young adults were used for sex and by 16 to 21, they were physically all used up. So when they had faith in Christ, it was so liberating to them…they would die for Him…and many worshipped the Lord in the catechumbs…the light of Christ entering the world through the place of the Roman dead.
For three hundred years, Christians had to protect their identity and a great factor in why the forms of documentation of early Christian life comes in various means, including places of worships, the motifs on the walls, jewelry…the ring with the fish…artifacts, historical letters…the paper trail in all its forms.
The last two Roman emperors proved an observation…that you see the worst and most violent form of conflict in its last stages…they were the worst and most destructive…and God came to Constantine in a dream to place the cross on the banners of his soldiers, but only became a Christian days before his death.
Constantine made Sunday a day of rest and allowed Christianity to public practice their faith. He built cathedrals and churches, and helped restoring bishops. Following this, we have hundreds of years of the barbarian invastions.
So in this time period of the barbarian invasions plundering the remaining effects of the Roman empire and the period following…what other groups than Catholic were working to restore society and bring about a more humane one?
And you have to go back to comparative…did ancient Rome and Greek provide humanitarian…I mean universal help and sustenance…to non-Romans and non-Greeks in providing health care, education, moral foundation to people in society?
Providing care to those who are not Christian…Catholics are Christian…is a universal directive by Christ Himself…The Church is witness to it in contrast to pagan societies.
The Roman populace stood in line to get their quota of food…had to be entertained as the culture was founded by the time of Christ as a slave state…providing heat, water, fountains above ground while the slaves toiled in the basement.
The populace was obligated to go to the coliseums for entertainment and to avoid any form of insurrection against the Roman government. The others served in the military. The coliseums had animal and human fights. Above, during the hot sun in the day time…these buildings were a site to behold…streams of color banners went out from the sides…colorful Roman shades over the opening of the coliseums to provide shade for the people…and then about 6 pm…the vials of perfume were emitted fragrance to cover up the stench of the dead lying on the coliseum floors.
Cicero admitted the violence of emotion he himself would absorb, himself forced to watch such spectacles…in these times, children and young adults were used for sex and by 16 to 21, they were physically all used up. So when they had faith in Christ, it was so liberating to them…they would die for Him…and many worshipped the Lord in the catechumbs…the light of Christ entering the world through the place of the Roman dead.
For three hundred years, Christians had to protect their identity and a great factor in why the forms of documentation of early Christian life comes in various means, including places of worships, the motifs on the walls, jewelry…the ring with the fish…artifacts, historical letters…the paper trail in all its forms.
The last two Roman emperors proved an observation…that you see the worst and most violent form of conflict in its last stages…they were the worst and most destructive…and God came to Constantine in a dream to place the cross on the banners of his soldiers, but only became a Christian days before his death.
Constantine made Sunday a day of rest and allowed Christianity to public practice their faith. He built cathedrals and churches, and helped restoring bishops. Following this, we have hundreds of years of the barbarian invastions.
So in this time period of the barbarian invasions plundering the remaining effects of the Roman empire and the period following…what other groups than Catholic were working to restore society and bring about a more humane one?
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