How the Catholic Soul Reconciles Illegal Immigration

[Dee_Geils]

As a Catholic Christian, I believe all human beings are worth giving freedom and dignity … but the rules of law and order need to be addressed. We can’t obey only the laws we agree with …

Shouldn’t the countries where the illegal immigration flows most heavily be encouraged … even expected … to improve life in their own countries for those people most oppressed and impoverished?

 

[Mystic_of_God]

I think that the border should be closed and sealed indefinitely.

The Illegals here should be given amnesty.

Renegotiate NAFTA to better include Mexico and encourage businesses to outsource to Mexico. This way, rather than hop over the border, the illegals will be able to find jobs in Mexico.

Make it easier to come across the border legally.

Put pressure on Mexico to fix corruption.

That’s my solution, but I bet the problem is WAY more complicated than that.

 

[AliciaCL]

I agree with the RCC that immigrants must be treated with human dignity. Also agree with your point that a country is responsible for taking care of its own population. It can seek assistance when needed but relying and subourning mass illegal entry and illegal working in this country degrades countries like Mexico and the U.S. for letting it happen. Some 20 million illegals purportedly work in the U.S. Those who hire them are cheating other Americans. This is such a huge block of people that they are taking some jobs away from Americans; they are taking more in benefits (medical care and welfare) than they contribute. And, if they are given citizenship they will tilt the social security system even further toward bankruptcy. This is not what we are required to let happen to be humane, and against the desires of the public. Our own government and certain businesses are pushing some form of amnesty against the clear wishes of the people. I think the church sees a revival in Mexican illegal immigrants for the RCC but it cannot be at the expense of Americans own financial systems. Our moral obligations do not extend to being forced to give away our built financial systems, when Mexico does nothing for its own people, when our officials wink at big business who use and abuse the immigrants and when the working people barely prop up the social security system as it is now.

 

[Dee_Geils]

I know of at least one HUGE American Company that has been trying for many years to establish factories and employment opportunities there in Mexico, in particular. The Mexican system does not teach it’s general population to read it’s own language so the first thing Companies have to do is teach Mexican workers to read instructions.

My car was made in Mexico. It’s a great little car.

 

[delphina]

I feel bad for the People of Mexico… but really wouldn’t be more helpful to every one if the US just went in and took over? a wall would cost less if we built in along the panama canal

 

[puzzleannie]

As a Catholic Christian, I believe all human beings are worth giving freedom and dignity … but the rules of law and order need to be addressed. We can’t obey only the laws we agree with …

Shouldn’t the countries where the illegal immigration flows most heavily be encouraged … even expected … to improve life in their own countries for those people most oppressed and impoverished?

yes of course you are right, but we in this country where most immigrants are headed do not have the ability to influence the political, social and economic system directly in other countries, esp. our neighbors to the south.

This Catholic advises investigating our own immigration laws, and their history (they are barely 100 years old) and why they were enacted in the first place, and right out of the law the implicit ethnic and religious biases upon which they are based. That we can influence.

also this forum requires a link to a news article, or they will probably shut it down

 

[GregoryPalamas]

I believe this problem is an intractable one inherent in secular states. Until we return to a Catholic Empire I can’t imagine that it will be resolved.

CDL

 

[Dee_Geils]

During the Eisenhower Administration … there was a Worker Program in place.

The reason there is no current news link here … the Main Stream News is avoiding the Illegal Immigration issue. Sorry …

 

[Dee_Geils]

I feel bad for the People of Mexico… but really wouldn’t be more helpful to every one if the US just went in and took over? a wall would cost less if we built in along the panama canal

 

[puzzleannie]

search on “immigration news” will turn up at least 6 stories today

 

[Dee_Geils]

Mexico has had excellent leadership … in the past … but for the last few, most recent years, there has not been any attention paid to the common people. Big business and top-tier economy is the focus.

Again … I know, personally, of big American Business that has tried to set up factories and employment opportunities IN Mexico … but first these American Companies have to teach the MEXICANs to READ Spanish.

The UN is supposed to be interested in the Dignity of Mankind … couldn’t the UN be sending Teachers to emerging nations? … oh, that’s right … remember the Congo … Rhuanda … the Sudan …

 

[Dee_Geils]

search on “immigration news” will turn up at least 6 stories today

 

[Dee_Geils]

Thanks … I’ll check them out.

 

[Isaacsdad]

I think that the border should be closed and sealed indefinitely.

The Illegals here should be given amnesty.

Renegotiate NAFTA to better include Mexico and encourage businesses to outsource to Mexico. This way, rather than hop over the border, the illegals will be able to find jobs in Mexico.

Make it easier to come across the border legally.

Put pressure on Mexico to fix corruption.

That’s my solution, but I bet the problem is WAY more complicated than that.

Its not much more complicated than what you suggest. The border could be sealed and a system could be established to see who is in the country working for a better life and who is in the country causing problems. Unfortunately, illegal immigrants have become political pawns and defenseless targets of cruel and cowardly politicians trying to capitlize on the bigotry of a certain voters. The border is not enforced because there is a great need for these workers to be here.
I hope that as Catholics we can take into account that a majority of these immigrants are Catholics themselves. Never has a non Protestant group been able to immigrate to this country in masses without substantial discrimination. If we do not defend our own and see that they are integrated into our society and dioceses, then what does that say about us? I think Catholics that use positions of prominence to attack the rights of immigrants should be excommunicated. “As you have done to the least of my bretheren, you have done unto me.” Its just that simple.

 

[AliciaCL]

“Rights” of immigrants is a distortion of the issue. Defending illegal immigrants because they are Catholic is not pure virtue. To defend illegal immigrants’ “entitlements” is to pull the rug out from beneath the average American who has worked to support their families and their communities. Our system of life and government allows for the occassioinal poor person to get free medical care, free education for their children, and social security retirement or disability payments, when needed. How can anyone argue that it is purely virtuous to take away the democratic process from average Americans? ILLEGAL immigants take free education, free medical care, and social security benefits when they haven’t paid into the state and federal tax systems. Or, if they are they are committing criminal identify theft. And our moral obligation is only to support the illegal immigrants? That is distorted logic. I’d be all in favor of churches or families or businesses fostering individual illegals to become citizens. But this wholesale approach of giving every illegal every benefit because they are our Catholic bretheran is just not right. Charity may be a moral obligation but it is not something you should try to impose on the taxpayers against their democratic will. The American people have a legitimate objection and any solution must consider them. Otherwise the church is simply fostering a type of Robinhood or communistic mentality. It is unfair, deceptive and manipulative to characterize full support for 20 million illegal immigrants to have full citizenship and full state and federal benefits as a Christian moral imperative. It is basically saying you must pay for and absorb a country.We have a right to self governance and forced absorption of illegal immigrants will only encourage more illegal immigration and take away our voice.

 

[SoCalRC]

“Rights” of immigrants is a distortion of the issue. Defending illegal immigrants because they are Catholic is not pure virtue. To defend illegal immigrants’ “entitlements” is to pull the rug out from beneath the average American who has worked to support their families and their communities.

Yes, those migrant ag. workers I see from my car each Thursday sure have shipped US manufacturing jobs overseas. It is hard to imagine how they found time, what with setting up the mortgage crisis and all…

I’m sorry, but ‘blame the weak’ is so prevelent in our discussions about immigration it is hard to resist. The reality is that it is corporations and the massive amount of corporate welfare we give them that are attacking the middle class in this country.

ILLEGAL immigants take free education, free medical care, and social security benefits when they haven’t paid into the state and federal tax systems.

Who benefits the most from exploited, cheap illegal labor, the laborer, living 8 to a room from a slum lord and sending a few bucks back to his family, or the businesses and individuals who benefit from his (or her) work? You are thinking about it as something ‘free’ to the illegal, but it is really just another set of subsidies to the sorts of businesses and individuals who convince themselves that breaking the law and exploiting the basic human needs of another person is a reasonable course of action.

It is unfair, deceptive and manipulative to characterize full support for 20 million illegal immigrants to have full citizenship and full state and federal benefits as a Christian moral imperative. It is basically saying you must pay for and absorb a country.We have a right to self governance and forced absorption of illegal immigrants will only encourage more illegal immigration and take away our voice.

Perhaps you could help us by putting this believe in a Christian context. Jesus repeatedly mentioned our obligations to the stranger and indicated that even a hated alien is our ‘neighbor’ in terms of responding to God’s law. This was a stark contrast to the Pharisees, who were intense xenophobes.

You have milliions of people living and working in this country. Our economy benefits from their cheap labor. Many pay taxes, many have established ties and families. What, exactly, do you propose doing to them? Deportation? What about their children born here?

For all the hand wringing there are really only two choices, bring them into the system we have, or maintain a two class system. The latter would seem to be a violation of our Catholic beliefs about the inalienable rights of the human person.

What I really don’t understand is the sense of superiority and entitlement many people express on this. By and large, all of us are descended from immigrants in the US, even the Native Americans. Does being born here, or migrating sooner, make one a better child of God?

Put it another way, who ‘deserves’ the benefits of our society? It appears that 20% of the US armed forces serving in Iraq are aliens seeking residency and citizenship. Isn’t feeding the ‘tree of liberty’ with one’s own blood enough?

 

[AliciaCL]

I also object vorciferously to the businesses who are abusing the illegals. A system of quasi-slavery has been established. And I’m not anti-immigrant. I’m anti-ILLEGAL immigrant. Our moral obligation to help those in need does not extend to hijacking the will of a democratic people! There isn’t an easy comprehensive solution. It is now highly complex because it has gone on so long. I’m not advocating mass deportation but to dismiss the American people’s clear view on this is wrong. We are not morally obligated to absorb every downtrodden person from anywhere because they are poor. We are a sovereign country and have the right to protect ourselves, our economy etc. We can’t take in all the world’s poor. We’ll simply collapse. Businesses who mistreat illegals are do harm to the average American and moral harm to the American idea. I thihnk the states which are now enforcing employment laws and cutting off benefits to non-citizens are causing an economic shift. In Oklahoma and other states, the illegals are leaving, going somewhere else or home. Some will have to go back to Mexico. The solution for the rest is LEGAL immigaration with sponsors who promise to help if the immigrant falls onto hard times. I think there should be individual and groups sponsorship (individuals, churches, cities, businesses) which can reasonably care for the immigrants rather than the government getting stuck paying for all their care. They can best calculate what they can afford. Then after a period of time, with a job and some English speaking skills, the country can grant citizenship.

 

[Isaacsdad]

" How can anyone argue that it is purely virtuous to take away the democratic process from average Americans? ILLEGAL immigants take free education, free medical care, and social security benefits when they haven’t paid into the state and federal tax systems.

Obviously, you have bought into the propaganda far more than you have done your research. Immigrants pay far more into the system than what they benefit. All of what you say is are stereotypical myths. There are Illegals that file taxes and pay mortgages and property taxes. You really should read instead of listening to Rush.

 

[Dee_Geils]

I guess it’s just a Myth that I have two family memebers who have lost employment opportunities to people who will work much cheaper … as long as it is green cash, folding money … and it must also be a Myth that local TV news reports tell of criminals taken into custody who do not look Scandinavian and who don’t carry any documents of IDentification of any kind …

 

[SoCalRC]

I guess it’s just a Myth that I have two family memebers who have lost employment opportunities to people who will work much cheaper … as long as it is green cash, folding money … and it must also be a Myth that local TV news reports tell of criminals taken into custody who do not look Scandinavian and who don’t carry any documents of IDentification of any kind …

Crime is always disproportionately represented by those at the bottom of the socio economic spectrum. They grow up in an environment of violence and are driven by the same sorts of desires that fuel all of us.

Pick up the phone and call tech support for a utility, you’ll speak with someone in India who will ‘work for less’. Go to Walmart and try to find a single good made with American hands. Be careful in the garment section, “Made in the USA” can mean made in Saipan, part of an American Protectorate. It is exempt from our labor laws and hosts Chinese ‘guest’ workers who live in guarded camps.

If the government sets laws that rewards large corporations for shipping jobs overseas, and makes it easy for corporations to avoid even paying US tax, then those people have a much bigger influence on job opportunitites than illegals scrambling for jobs.

Look at Walmart, it systematically exploited illegals and then, when caught, was allowed to dictate its own ‘penalty’.

Or, look at Haliburton. One subsidiary has received $2.4B in no bid contracts. It has served rancid food and tainted water to US troops and demonstrably defrauded US taxpapers. That is our money, our sons and daughters fighting, and our collective security. Does it not bother you that such a small percentage of that money went to creating jobs for Iraqi’s (which would have helped our security) or US citizens (who have seen anemic job growth for 7 years and now job contraction)?

Instead, the cheapest labor in the world is pulled in and no one even balks when the company moves to Dubai to avoid even paying us back in rightful taxes! The Church says we have a right and an obligation to the development of a socially just economy. We should not, as Christians, be in a position where our own basic human needs must come at the cost of those even less fortunate than ourselves. Basic security and sustanence should not be a zero sum game, particularly in the wealthiest nation in human history.