How the older brother reacted in the prodigal son parable

[Debbie_Kono]

Hi, Debbie!

Does your Priest distinguishes between the abode of the dead (Sheol) and hell?

Maran atha!

Angel

The teaching I referenced was on the YouTube channel Sensus Fidelium. Sensus Fidelium is a channel with FSSP priests teachings/homilies. I listen to a lot of teachings there…if I find the exact one I’ll come back here and post it. But regardless, the priest, Fr. Philip Wolfe is the one who said that Core and his followers are in hell. I don’t remember his exact wording…but he did say that if anyone says the Church doesn’t know if anyone is in hell they are mistaken.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

jcrichton:

Hi, Debbie!

Does your Priest distinguishes between the abode of the dead (Sheol) and hell?

Maran atha!

Angel

The teaching I referenced was on the YouTube channel Sensus Fidelium. Sensus Fidelium is a channel with FSSP priests teachings/homilies. I listen to a lot of teachings there…if I find the exact one I’ll come back here and post it. But regardless, the priest, Fr. Philip Wolfe is the one who said that Core and his followers are in hell. I don’t remember his exact wording…but he did say that if anyone says the Church doesn’t know if anyone is in hell they are mistaken.

Which is skirting around the truth. We do know that people are in hell. But we do not, nor have we ever, been told that ~insert name here~ is in Hell, which is a VERY important distinction given that we DO have confirmations of the names of those in heaven all the time.

 

[graciew]

No,we do not…
And personally, I do not want to go and check it out… .

 

[christofirst]

This parable is applicable to many specific situations, no doubt. My mom gets upset when she sees celebrities like Frank Sinatra having a Catholic Funeral Mass. “How can it be for such a notorious womanizer? It’s scandalous!” I ask her if she’s not reacting like the elder brother in the parable, and presuming to know the state of another’s soul, or the sincerity of one’s contrition. She says the elder brother had a good point, and she identifies with him. She doesn’t particularly like that parable.

 

[christofirst]

Concerning the son’s confession or contrition, Scott Hahn says, in his book Lord Have Mercy,
“The son began to give voice to his prepared speech, but after a few words the father had heard enough. “Father, I have sinned against Heaven and before you.” The son’s contrition was imperfect; just a little more than a hankering after a full belly and a warm bed, but it was enough. For he had come to his home and he had acknowledged his sin. The third-century commentator Origen notes that it was only after the son had shown some small contrition - only after he had made his confession - that the father brought him home.”

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Debbie!

I think that part of the problem is vocabulary and intent.

If I were to claim that the Church Teaches that “xyz” leads to hell and that the person/'s who practice/engages/supports it will be damned to hell, am I right to say that Obama, the Clintons and all of those who engage and profit from the culture of death are already in hell or that as soon as they die they will be ripe for hell?

No!

What the Church Teaches is that “xyz” leads to hell and that Only One is Judge.

Clearly, what I can claim as complete absolute is that God Knows who will be in hell and who will not. It is the Holy Spirit Who Searches the depth of man, not Angel, not the Church.

So the Church will not deem that anyone is in hell because she Knows that all Judgement is Done by God.

Liberties taken can lead to confusion, heresy, and damnation.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Gracie!

…that puts a wet blanket on my plans… I though someone out there would be brazen enough to venture, for a weekend or so, then come back with some hot stories!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[graciew]

No way!!! Hahahaha Unless you want me to keep you company for a while but I wait outside,JC. With 3 GPS to be able to come back!:running_woman::running_man: and running!

 

[jcrichton]

Hi, Christ!

Personally, I disagree with both authors… if we dissect the passage we find that self-preservation lead to the illumination that even the lowest cast in his father’s household was living it up in comparison to his wretched existence.

That concern lead him to soul search.

While finding the way to approach a return to a better life, he found himself not seeking to bask in ‘glory-days;’ rather, he emptied himself of yester pride and contempt.

He resolved to return to his old life not as the sovereign but as a servant of the household.

As soon as he hit the outskirts of the father’s realm, it was not the son who ran to put a scam into effect; rather, it was the father who, out of love and mercy, took pity upon the wretched sight and extended himself to the wayward dope.

A con artist would have appropriated the softy (father’s acceptance) and would have capitalize on it. Yet, he was convicted of his wrong and proceeded to make full his acclamations: ‘I’ve sinned against Heaven and against you; I have not the right to be considered your son, any longer; treat me as you would one of your servants.’ (yeah, a little licensing)

The father did not even hear what the son was saying… it all got garbled up in the emotions and the fast planning to Celebrate the returned sinner!

‘He was lost and Now, has been Found!’

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Randolph]

Well said!!! Thank you.

 

[jcrichton]

Yeah, that’s a vacation spot of no return (remember that old song, ‘welcome to the hotel California?’); you may enter, but you cannot leave! So we must do some serious life searching and planning!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[1neophyte]

Hi, Christ!

Personally, I disagree with both authors… if we dissect the passage we find that self-preservation lead to the illumination that even the lowest cast in his father’s household was living it up in comparison to his wretched existence.

That concern lead him to soul search.

While finding the way to approach a return to a better life, he found himself not seeking to bask in ‘glory-days;’ rather, he emptied himself of yester pride and contempt.

He resolved to return to his old life not as the sovereign but as a servant of the household.

As soon as he hit the outskirts of the father’s realm, it was not the son who ran to put a scam into effect; rather, it was the father who, out of love and mercy, took pity upon the wretched sight and extended himself to the wayward dope.

A con artist would have appropriated the softy (father’s acceptance) and would have capitalize on it. Yet, he was convicted of his wrong and proceeded to make full his acclamations: ‘I’ve sinned against Heaven and against you; I have not the right to be considered your son, any longer; treat me as you would one of your servants.’ (yeah, a little licensing)

The father did not even hear what the son was saying… it all got garbled up in the emotions and the fast planning to Celebrate the returned sinner!

‘He was lost and Now, has been Found!’

Maran atha!

Angel

Your eisegesis is very interesting, but flawed. When you “dissect” the passage (i.e. cutting out certain verses to re-frame the story to your preconceived idea), a lot is missed. It’s better to look at the entire story with nothing removed to fully understand what Jesus is saying.

 

[jcrichton]

I welcome your participation; I regret we will forever be at odds.

I cannot explain what is not there.

You have the freedom to conclude as you will.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Randolph]

Jcrichton.

I very much enjoyed your posts and eloquent logics. God gave us with the gift of free will to choose to be with Him or to reject Him. While God’s love and mercy are boundless and are beyond our own comprehension, for true reconciliation and forgiveness to occur, we need to do our part recognizing our own failures and sins and to repent. Repent is not a dirty word. Indeed, it is a word often repeated in the Gospels and throughout the life of the Church.

You are correct in pointing out an error in recent times of placing the burden/obligation on God to accept all of the human failures and sins to the point of contradicting God Himself simply because we are His children. These failures include the rejection of God and His teachings. We are living in an era where we place blames on others and everywhere/anywhere except ourselves. The truth is that this blame game really hurts us because it prevents us from getting the help and correction we need to amend our lives and to be united with God who is love and merciful.

I look forward to reading your future posts. God bless.

 

[jcrichton]

Randolph, thank you so much for your kind words!

I fully concur with you:

These failures include the rejection of God and His teachings. We are living in an era where we place blames on others and everywhere/anywhere except ourselves. The truth is that this blame game really hurts us because it prevents us from getting the help and correction we need to amend our lives and to be united with God who is love and merciful

It is the mentality of “liberty.” We want to own up to all the “rights” and “freedom” that we deem is inherent to our being. But we reject anything that points to personal responsibility and obligation.

Instead of a strong ethic we have grown to accept the “excuse” and “blame others” principle as our moral compass.

I’ve met (on this site and in person) so many intelligent people that spend so much time seeking to find clauses and means to circumvent God’s Commands that it hurts. They spend so much time and effort in this endeavor that they do not even consider how simple and how profitable simply Obeying God is. Just imagine how much time and energy we were to save if we were to adhere to the Golden Rule: “Love Yahweh God Above All, and your neighbor as yourself.”

I view this temerity of man as that comic skid of the fellow who makes a prison break by digging a tunnel… hours into the exercise he finds himself breaking out into the warden’s office! That’s the futility of trying to circumvent God’s Command instead of choosing Life!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Like I’ve said a number of times, I heard a teaching from an FSSP priest that we know Core and his followers are in hell. I’m only repeating what I’ve heard. I’ll try to find the teaching I listened to and post it here. Now this priest did not mention any other person(s) who might be in hell…he just said that from Numbers 16 we know those who “went down alive into Sheol; and the earth closed over them” are in hell today. Sorry…didn’t want to start anything here. I will try to find the teaching and post it.

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Finally…I found it. You can hear father at the 24 minute mark:

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Finally…I found it. You can hear father at the 24 minute mark:

Debbie. I’m not going to listen. It is not wrong to indicate that Hell contains human souls. The point is that God has NOT ever, ever listed ~insert name here~ is in Hell, only that there are people in Hell. We’ve even been told X’s brothers are in Hell–but they remained unnamed and abstract. Like I said the two are NOT interchangeable and carry a deeply different connotation. To know Hell has residents is deeply different than God confirming ~insert person here~ is in Hell?

Why? Well, one priest speculated is because these are deeply painful losses to God and that grief is so great that He will not let Satan “win” by allowing him to claim them by name. But it is no mistake that in all of Bible History and in 2000 years since Christ died no person has been confirmed to be in hell.

 

[Debbie_Kono]

Well, one priest speculated

Fair enough. Just know that the priest in the teaching I posted said that at least 3 Doctors of the Church, Ven. Bede, St. Jerome and St. Bellarmine, popes, Scripture and Tradition say otherwise…claiming Core, Dathan and Abiron in Numbers 16 and of course Judas are in hell. Unless this priest is lying or in error…I’ll stick with the Doctors of the Church.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Well, one priest speculated

Fair enough. Just know that the priest in the teaching I posted said that at least 3 Doctors of the Church, Ven. Bede, St. Jerome and St. Bellarmine, popes, Scripture and Tradition say otherwise…claiming Core, Dathan and Abiron in Numbers 16 and of course Judas are in hell. Unless this priest is lying or in error…I’ll stick with the Doctors of the Church.

That was not divine revelation. It was pure speculation…and not a tenent of the church.

Saints have also said that naked babies are bad. Not everything they say is legit.