How to act towards clergy and guilt?

[Peter5]

JReducation and others,

I just expected to find more role models but what you guys say is true. I'm just trying to find an organized group within my church that strictly follows the catholic creed not some arbitrary group of beliefs. For example, the brothers you mentioned sound interesting in that respect. I mean to say that I want people to teach me about the faith not on their own opinion rather on the official stance of the church. I cannot stand people who arbitrary pick whatever scripture and this is why I picked catholicism not protestantism. I mean to say that I want to be a orthodox catholic not a modernist in the sense of comprimise or inhumane aid to those in need. I've even thought if I had no fiance to enter a monk order or something. Seems peaceful to get away from the things that aren't important anyways. 
 It's just hard to continue onwards when the weight like a saddle is hunkering you down. Thank you guys for reminding me of the true purpose of church. I sinned a lot lately cause it seems like others got their s but I never got mine. I see the plentyful well off talk about their trips to Europe, Canada, Mexico or where ever and it makes me furous with rage cause of the apathy. It also makes me mad as well with some clergy trips I've heard of but surely they have a purpose behind them. 
 I want to join a group. Any suggestions? I think this is why I don't like America or americans rather in general cause we have a homogenous mindset to our religious life. We go off pure tradition in all things like traditions don't have their inate flaws. I'd rather go to Britain or Australia and other places to have a variety of diverging points of view you know? In America, the melting pot has really melt our pot for brains cause of conformity in the name of unity and solidarity right? I'm an individual with individual skill sets and beliefs of somethings and nothing to be trifled with in that way. Thanks for any suggestions.

sincerely,
PeterI don’t agree with your theological argument nor do modern people with compassionant cause you don’t know who is guilty or not by their minds aren’t open orbs to peer into. Only the person and God can communicate forgiveness no matter what like a person going to confessional might not confess all of their sins to a priest because only you and God can determine that. Also, you are falling into a fallacy of cultural modernism in a way to allow people in general by a societies estimation of life determine not God. How can someone be an instrument of life without giving proof of instruction by God? This is rather pathetic if you ask me cause even Pope’s with the aid of holy spirit have failed. No, moral code has ever been found completely without some questioning and I don’t believe an eye for an eye was right then nor now. Jesus Christ in the Gospels went out against the principle and even when Judas gave his kiss Jesus didn’t want them for an eye for an eye. Despite what you say or whatever the doctrine could eventually be overturned by making those wronged by soul escripura like what you are doing guilty of being copable of innocent potential souls into purgatory.
Hell what do I know christians just a precatholic right? Arrogant, pompous and prideful humans you all are to determine who lives or not. unless God comes down from Heaven saying without proof, we could say anything to justify anything right? Completely insaine that this even happens in the modern day. Why aren’t rich people guilty of death then? They commit manslaughter everyday with human right violations or whatever? Stupid religious picking of scriptures for your own political gains.

 

[JohnDamian]

Firstly; I am sure if you enquire your Parish will have spiritual direction available for people; this is where a qualified Catholic teacher is able to help and direct you on matters of faith. They are generally very traditional and reliable. May I also suggest that you remember that we are all loved and cared for by the Church Triumphant; those Catholics who have ascended into heaven and interceed for us.

It is traditional that people undergoing Confirmation (the third Sacrament of initiation; the others being Holy Communion and Baptism) adopt another name (usually a middle name) of a Saint, a Blessed, or a Biblical Figure, they regard as their Patron. This practice is very helpful and useful, as it helps us reflect daily upon those who have gone before us; and gives us a focul point in our aspirations to follow Christ fully. Understanding that the Church Triumphant of the Communion of Saints have triumphed over sin and paved ahead of us a path of saintlieness can inspire us to go on; and strengthen our resolve. For myself it was the Franciscan Duns Scotus.

If you need an Solid and reliable document to help keep you informed on the Catholic Position I would advise getting the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”; I am quite unsure how one who has visual difficulties would go about reading it ---- but it seems you are reading this reasonably enough; and there are online versions; a link of which I shall provide if it is any use at all:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Next on the agenda is that you mentioned you would join a “monk order” if you didn’t have a fiance. I can point out here that there are a number of options available even for the married. For starters; many religious orders have “third orders” or other ways one can attach themselves to their community. Two examples; The Order of the Friars Minor (aka Franciscans) have a “Third Order” people who are married can join; where they live out in the world; but still are part of the community of Franciscans and share many of their practices;-- another example would be “Oblates” of St. Benedict; this is where an individual attaches himself to a Benedictine Monastary as someone who lives outside in the world; often married; but sharing in the Benedictine spirit. There are countless more types of “Third Order” which one can consider; depending upon ones abilities and calling.

Furthermore; a married person may also be admitted to the Diaconate, ie; made a Deacon; such people can be married; and are usually over thirty five (twenty five for singles). Or a married person may attach to one of the groups of “knights” which represent traditional and dedicated Catholics; an example of which in the US would be the Knights of Columbus.

I know what you mean about tradition in the US; here in the UK I live in a town that is over three thousand years old; but don’t hold any illusions; the UK is just as bad in terms of politics and so forth - the only tradition we have is old buildings… We don’t even have a major political party against abortion in England.

The reason people go to the confessional by the way; is because the Priest acts in the person of Christ. The latin for this is “in persona Christi”, he also acts in this way when communing sacraments such as Eucharist; you are not confessing to a man; but to God. We believe that God is really present in the Sacraments (Eucharist, Baptism, Confirmation, Marraige, Holy Orders, Anointing, Penance).

Just because you are a precatholic does not mean you do not understand or have any knowlege about the faith. Before I converted to the faith I had read the majority of Scholastic works available in English (hence the obscure Confirmation name). I am certain if you are truly interested you can be as knowlegable, if not more so than most Catholic laypersons.

Owing to your comment about the Rich I shall leave you with this quote from the Book of James 5:1-5;

[1] Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl in your miseries, which shall come upon you. [2] Your riches are corrupted: and your garments are motheaten. [3] Your gold and silver is cankered: and the rust of them shall be for a testimony against you, and shall eat your flesh like fire. You have stored up to yourselves wrath against the last days. [4] Behold the hire of the labourers, who have reaped down your fields, which by fraud has been kept back by you, crieth: and the cry of them hath entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. [5] You have feasted upon earth: and in riotousness you have nourished your hearts, in the day of slaughter.

If I reccomend any non-Gospel book of the Bible it is without doubt the book of James; in only five Chapters it makes up one of the most powerful and uplifiting books.

 

[OraLabora]

For a Benedictine or Cistercian:

For a monk who is not a priest, then you call him Brother (name)
For a priest, either Father (name) or Dom (name)
The abbot is Father Abbot (for Benedictine men of the Solesmes congregation the superior is always a priest. Not sure about other congregations or the Cistercians).

 

[JRKH]

How do you detach people from the religion itself though?

To my way of thinking this is backwards. One should not seperate “people from religion” but the other way round. Seperate the religion from the people. You see, I think this is where you are making the mistake. You seem to be consentrating more on the people and judging the religion based on them. Instead you should concentrate on the faith itself, conform yourself to that faith and then display that faith to others.

I mean that I’m easily discouraged a lot cause of a low self-esteem

This is apparent inmany of your posts. It is a matter that needs to be addressed through personal prayer, spiritual direction and possibly even counciling.

it seems at times pointless to talk to the one sided often times assembly in church. I mean if you don’t agree 100% with conservatives, then your not a christian enough for them. They talk to you like your dumb and often times try to correct you especially about war. I’ve tried to understand their reasoning but its too simplestic for me.

I know what you mean. There are people who form very set opinions and are very LOUD about them and if you don’t agree with them - they will shout you down. But - So what if they don’t agree with you. What are you seeking, to be closer to God or to “fit in” and have people agree with you.

How can you continue knowing that you have relatively little to no support.

Through prayer, and reliance on God. That is the only way in any event.
Church is not, or should not, be a social club and I would hope you not treat it as such. Even if you are the only one there who is completely orthodox, then so be it. This is perhaps the very thing that God is calling you to do. To be teh orthodox grounding for others in your church community.

As for learning, I’d suggest that you get a copy of the Catechism. It can also be found online HERE. There is a search engine at the bottom of the page that you can use to look up particular things.
I’d also suggest that, if you haven’t already, that you begin watching some of the EWTN programs. If you don’t get it on TV, you can stream it from the EWTN WEBSITE. In fact EWTN is not that far from where you are.
Continue to ask questions here at CAF. While I can’t guarantee that everyone here is entirely “orthodox”, those who are not are usually called on it pretty quickly. So perhaps we can be a part of that support group you seek.
Finally, I’d suggest that if you are looking for a deeper spirituality, you talk to your pastor about possible retreats, monastaries and so forth that can offer you opporutnities for seclusion, instruction, reflection and contemplation.

Peace
James