So I think the non-Catholic Christian argument here is that there are passages in Scripture that discuss saving faith (usually St. Paul’s writings), and there are passages that don’t really fit this mold and are described as a purifying or justifying faith, but not a saving one (typically explains James’ writing). I’ve heard it put this way; I think this is the same argument you are explaining, except that St. Paul’s writings are usually upheld as preachign the ‘saving faith’. So that’s interesting, but the defense is the same.Protestants explain away 1 Cor 13:2 by the “saving faith” route, the same route they take in explaining James 2:24: good works is evidence of faith, but good works, by itself, has absolutely got nothing to do with salvation, faith alone has.
Hope this helps answer your questions:
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this argument. Exactly how does 1 Cor 13:2 refer to “saving faith”?
So tell me, what was your faith like when you were baptized? For myself, I believe I can honestly say I didn’t have faith in anything when I was baptized in “the Church” (I was just a baby). However, once God brought me out of Catholicism, I exercised my faith in Jesus Christ and was baptized correctly. Just curious, when did you first acknowledge faith in Jesus Christ (actually know and believe in Him, not just repeat back words or prayers you had been taught)?
It was quite strong, thank God. I was baptized when I was 18. I praise and thank God that He led me into His Church and feel very blessed.
“Exercised your faith?” How is that not a work?
Of course it’s a work. However, it isn’t a “good” work unless it’s done in faith (remember Romans 14:23, “… For all that is not of faith is sin.”). When I was baptized as a child, I had no faith in God, Jesus, or anything else. How can I be credited with doing a good work? However, once I received faith from God, I was able to discern that I needed to be baptized properly (through my own faith in Jesus Christ), which is what I did. If not for faith, I would never have been able to do anything pleasing to God (“But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.” Heb 11:6 DR). Can you show me a place where works are commended and faith is absent?
Sounds like you agree with the Catechism:***CCC#1821 *We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ.
I do not agree with baptizing babies (should be obvious from my example). There are a number of other areas where I strongly disagree with the Catechism, but that isn’t the topic of this thread.
I wasn’t suggesting that. I was saying you agree with the Catechism regarding how works have value.
This is nonsensical. If something is evidence of X then it is false to say it has nothing to do with X, for it has just been stated that it does have something to do with X.Protestants explain away 1 Cor 13:2 by the “saving faith” route, the same route they take in explaining James 2:24: good works is evidence of faith, but good works, by itself, has absolutely got nothing to do with salvation, faith alone has.
Is it your position that babies who die cannot enter heaven? For, as you claim, they do not have faith.
And who said Catholicism teaches that a baptized baby is credited with a good work? And I also ask the same question VociMike asks you: you believe all infants that die go to hell?
2 Sam 12:23 says, "But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. " (emphasis mine). I believe God is merciful and has a plan and purpose for everything. As I understand 2 Sam 12:23, David will join his son when he dies and goes to be with the Lord (in Heaven). Do you think every unbaptized baby goes to hell? What hope did they have before Jesus commissioned the Apostles? What, in Scripture, makes you think unbaptized babies go to hell?
Are you saying that baptism isn’t a work? If it’s a work, how can a baby, with no faith, do this work in a way that’s pleasing to God?
If you think babies who lack faith can be saved, why did you even bring up the issue about babies? Works are not the key to salvation, nor is faith the key. God’s grace is the key, and our response to it.
What did I write that would cause you to ask this question?