How to answer question regarding Cain's wife

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Ok…so one of my managers from work was asking me earlier today (on behalf of her dad, who is a fallen away Catholic) where Cain got his wife. She kept trying to point out that Cain was banished to a far away land (I’m not sure how this effects his getting married, regardless of his circumstances). I kept trying to tell her that Cain most likely married one of his sisters (my manager was appalled at the thought of incest, to which I tried to explain to her that the people of the Old Testament didn’t have a clear understanding of God’s laws and that He allowed certain things because of this, as well as to populate the earth, and that He sent His Son to set us all straight) and that she might have traveled to the same land as him. To me, this one part in the Bible (how Cain got a wife) seems petty to try and disprove religion in general, but for the sake of argument, does anyone have a more clear idea of how I can explain Cain and his wife?
 
Ok…so one of my managers from work was asking me earlier today (on behalf of her dad, who is a fallen away Catholic) where Cain got his wife. She kept trying to point out that Cain was banished to a far away land (I’m not sure how this effects his getting married, regardless of his circumstances). I kept trying to tell her that Cain most likely married one of his sisters (my manager was appalled at the thought of incest, to which I tried to explain to her that the people of the Old Testament didn’t have a clear understanding of God’s laws and that He allowed certain things because of this, as well as to populate the earth, and that He sent His Son to set us all straight) and that she might have traveled to the same land as him. To me, this one part in the Bible (how Cain got a wife) seems petty to try and disprove religion in general, but for the sake of argument, does anyone have a more clear idea of how I can explain Cain and his wife?
Ans. 35

radioreplies.info/site-search.php?q=cain&db=5
 
This is the conundrum that arises when one tries to use the early books of the Bible as a historical narrative. These types of inconsistencies become a stumbling block when one tries to maintain that Genesis is written in the modern-day, journalistic style of historical documentation. The point is to seek out what the ancient author intends to convey, not the method that he uses to convey it. When we take a literal approach to these stories, we tend to find that we must spend more time defending the loose ends than explaining and accepting the inspired meaning.
 
Ok…so one of my managers from work was asking me earlier today (on behalf of her dad, who is a fallen away Catholic) where Cain got his wife. She kept trying to point out that Cain was banished to a far away land (I’m not sure how this effects his getting married, regardless of his circumstances). I kept trying to tell her that Cain most likely married one of his sisters (my manager was appalled at the thought of incest, to which I tried to explain to her that the people of the Old Testament didn’t have a clear understanding of God’s laws and that He allowed certain things because of this, as well as to populate the earth, and that He sent His Son to set us all straight) and that she might have traveled to the same land as him. To me, this one part in the Bible (how Cain got a wife) seems petty to try and disprove religion in general, but for the sake of argument, does anyone have a more clear idea of how I can explain Cain and his wife?
I thought, ‘Where did Cain get his wife?’ was old hat now. Obviously I am wrong.

It was traditionally thought Cain married one of his sisters based on a literal interpretation of the Genesis account. Not everyone reads this account literally, and as such there are numerous possibilities - including children of Adam and Eve mated with neanderthals.

Even if we read the Genesis account literally we are not compelled to arrive at the conclusion he married his sister. The link the previous poster gave you is useful. The Genesis account does not say how many children Adam and Eve had. Neither does the Bible say how old Cain and Abel were when this crime was committed. Neither does it say what the age difference was between Seth - Adam and Eve’s first son, and Cain and Abel. Neither does it say all children of Adam and Eve continued to live in the immediate area.

As far as we know the first humans in the Near East led a nomadic life. This addresses the issue of humans living in the ‘Land of Nod.’ The word ‘son’ is used in the OT to not just a biological son but a close male relative - as is ‘brother.’ I think Abraham and Lot called each other ‘brother’ but were actually cousins? Thus, Cain and Abel may not have been biological brothers, and Cain may have married a distant female relative. However, if God created only one human pair none of this can get us past initial brother/sister marriage, and this is what the, ‘Where did Cain get his wife’ argument is really about.
 
This is the conundrum that arises when one tries to use the early books of the Bible as a historical narrative. These types of inconsistencies become a stumbling block when one tries to maintain that Genesis is written in the modern-day, journalistic style of historical documentation. The point is to seek out what the ancient author intends to convey, not the method that he uses to convey it. When we take a literal approach to these stories, we tend to find that we must spend more time defending the loose ends than explaining and accepting the inspired meaning.
Thanks for the heads up.
 
From the Rev. George Leo Haydock Commentary:
“Ver. 17. His wife. She was a daughter of Adam, and Cain’s own sister; God dispensing with such marriages in the beginning of the world, as mankind could not otherwise be propagated. — He built a city, viz. In process of time, when his race was multiplied, so as to be numerous enough to people it. For in the many hundred years he lived, his race might be multiplied even to millions. (Challoner) — The Hanuchta, which Ptolemy places in Susiana, (Calmet) may perhaps have been built after the flood, in the same place. Josephus says, Cain was the first who fortified a city; designing it for a retreat, where he might keep the fruits of his robberies, Antiquities 1. 3. Peirere founds his ill-concerted system of Preadamites, or of men existing before Adam, on the history of Cain exercising husbandry, building a city, &c.; as if there were any difficulty in supposing, that the arts would have made some progress in the lapse of above a century. (Haydock)”
 
Thanks for the heads up.
Certainly. 👍

I am simply repeating what the Church teaches about the Bible and literalism. It is beyond me why so many Catholics ignore the Church on this and embrace biblical fundamentalism.
 
Must be something in the water. There’s a Cain thread on the other forum. But it is relevant. If I recall correctly, Josephus in his Antiquities claims that Cain invented money – both to operate his city, and to invent usurious interest and such money sins. Genesis tells us Cain invented both sacrifice and murder; why are people insistent that he couldn’t have committed incest.

(There’s an old saying that you can tell whether a Christian is liberal or conservative by saying the word SIN. Like Pavlov’s dogs, they will salivate. But the conservatives will salivate the word “sex” and liberals will salivate the word “money.”)

Scripture does give us an answer. Eve was “the mother of all living” (Gen. 3:20). So Cain’s wife was descended from Eve.

Adam was alone in the Gan [The Garden of Eden]. God introduced all the beasts, but no companion was found for the man. So God made Eve (Gen. 2:18-23).

The word that the KJV translates as “helpmeet” is ezer/azer. (Hebrew had no vowels.) It doesn’t mean “June Cleaver style of wife” or even “mate.” It means helper. God refers to Himself in Scripture as Israel’s *ezer * (from which we get the name “Ebenezer”). But it doesn’t mean that God was outranked in the relationship.

We mention this because Gen. 2:18-23 shows that Adam found no other humans at all. A wife would qualify as an ezer, but so would a brother. It was God’s good pleasure to create an ezer that Adam could marry – but God could have given Adam both a wife and a brother, and Scripture would use the same term ezer until they did something to distinguish themselves from each other.

In the New Testament it is frequently emphasized that all humans are descended from Adam. If that were not so, that God would have to find some other way besides the intervention of Christ to save those beings that were unrelated to Adam.

So yes, Cain’s wife had to be descended from both Adam and Eve. The obvious candidates were a sister or, much less likely, a niece. After Cain had sinned, it would be unlikely that his siblings would want to give a daughter to him in marriage.

Gen. 5:4 reminds us that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters. Some sources say 30 sons & 30 daughters. Others say 33 sons and 23 daughters. (I don’t know why, sorry.)

Basically, the reader can believe the Biblical account, disbelieve, have doubts, ignore, or other, but that’s different from saying that the Bible didn’t have an answer. It didn’t give a name – Jubilees claims it was Awan, FWIW – but that’s different from an answer to the question.

I don’t think the issue is literalism, at least not by itself. I think the issue is the one raised in the “Scopes monkey trial.” The reason they didn’t have an answer is that they may have been too dainty to admit that if Cain married a sister, then Seth did too. And everyone wants to be descended from the “good” son, and nobody from the “bad” one.

Unfortunately, neither Antediluvian committed incest or else both did. I say that both did. As for the reason why, I think it goes back to not having any human alive who isn’t descended from both Adam and Eve (as per the issue of whom Christ came here to save).

As a child I was told that God may have created mates for Cain and for Seth to prevent them from committing incest. Some even said God gave them spirit wives! :eek: But that would mean that Christ would have to do something different to save us, since we’d only be saved on the Adamic half of our family tree. :eek:
 
So yes, Cain’s wife had to be descended from both Adam and Eve. The obvious candidates were a sister or, much less likely, a niece. After Cain had sinned, it would be unlikely that his siblings would want to give a daughter to him in marriage.
Your entire post is an excellent example of subjective extrapolation at its best.

And I certainly doubt that any modern scholar, Christian or not, takes the writings of Josephus seriously.
 
Your entire post is an excellent example of subjective extrapolation at its best.
*“I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

This was unexpected and rather difficult. There was some scattered clapping, but most of them were trying to work it out and see if it came to a compliment. * 😛

Merely pointing out that if the OP’s friend wants an answer from a literal-reading POV, the text does provide one. Like I said, believe or don’t, but that’s separate from saying that the question was unanswerable within the parameters of the text.

I have a mild interest in Antediluvians since that’s where so many of our problems started. It also seems to me to be a case of God’s power made perfect in weakness (cf. 2 Cor. 12:9).
I certainly doubt that any modern scholar, Christian or not, takes the writings of Josephus seriously.
Oh, he was no Suetonius, to be sure. 😉 (Robert Graves wrote a few books on that one.) I just found it interesting that this was the first time, last time, and only time I’d heard that particular allegation. It would be like crediting Cain for the Recession, or something. 😛
 
In Pope Pius XII’s Humani Generis, he mentions how it’s necessary to believe we’re all descended from Adam and Eve so if Cain and Abel were not brothers, then who were their parents? While I’ll admit I still have not seen an official Church stance in regards to Adam and Eve’s children then breeding with Neanderthals and whatnot and I personally have not found official Church teaching on whether or not that is theologically allowed.
 
Cain and Abel not biological brothers? If Eve is the mother of all the living, then how can that be?
If Eve is the mother of all living she cannot have had only two sons. She must have had daughters but we don’t know how many and they are not named.

The fact Genesis says Eve is the mother of all living does not necessarily mean Eve -
dam’s wife was the mother of Cain and Abel. She may have been, but the Bible does not specifically say this. It is at least possible the ‘Eve’ of Genesis 4:1 is not Adam’s wife but rather a female descendant of Adam and Eve also named Eve.

Genesis 4:1 says the man knew his wife Eve and she conceived a son Cain. Not Adam, but the ‘man.’ It does not say who fathered Abel. It says, 'next she bore Abel. (4:2)

At 4:25 it says Adam knew his wife again. Not the ‘man’ but Adam - and **‘his wife.’ ** She gives birth to Seth and according to the text after Cain’s son Lamech has fathered children and to replace Abel. Genesis 4:23,25 is somewhat confusing as Lamech tells his wives he has killed a man - and if Cain is avenged seven fold and he seventy seven fold.

Genesis 5 says Adam fathered Seth in his likeness according to his image. It does not say he fathered either Cain or Abel in his likeness and according to his image, and Cain and Abel are not mentioned in the line of Adam’s descendants.

What Bible scholars have concluded based on the actual text is there are sections of Genesis 4 & 5 ‘missing,’ in that we do not have the original account in it’s entirety. In addition, hundreds of years pass where nothing is recorded as happening outside the birth of Cain, Able, Seth, Lamech, marriage to his two wives and their children. This being the case, it continues to be possible Eve is the mother of all living but Adam did not father either Cain nor Abel, the Eve who gave birth to them was not Adam’s wife but a female descendant, and they did not have the same biological father. I am not saying these are facts - merely possibilities based on the actual text and biblical scholarship.
 
In Pope Pius XII’s Humani Generis, he mentions how it’s necessary to believe we’re all descended from Adam and Eve so if Cain and Abel were not brothers, then who were their parents? While I’ll admit I still have not seen an official Church stance in regards to Adam and Eve’s children then breeding with Neanderthals and whatnot and I personally have not found official Church teaching on whether or not that is theologically allowed.
If we we are descended from one human pair and that is what Catholics are required to believe - then we are compelled to accept the incest argument. If we are descended from on human pair there is no way around that. You can get around it with Cain, but you can’t get around it altogether. That’s all I was saying.

The Neanderthal theory is only a theory. To my knowledge a recent theory. As such I don’t think there would be any Church teaching on it. Pius XII would not have been aware of it. I don’t know much about it myself other than a vague awareness from noticing a thread on this topic on CAF. I don’t say I buy it I was just alerting the OP to the fact it’s out there.
 
The fact Genesis says Eve is the mother of all living does not necessarily mean Eve -
dam’s wife was the mother of Cain and Abel. She may have been, but the Bible does not specifically say this. It is at least possible the ‘Eve’ of Genesis 4:1 is not Adam’s wife but rather a female descendant of Adam and Eve also named Eve.
I haven’t seen so much stretching since I got a Stretch Armstrong for Christmas many years ago!
 
…It is beyond me why so many Catholics ignore the Church on this and embrace biblical fundamentalism.
It’s not biblical fundamentalism.
It’s procreation biology.

Everybody on earth is biologically related to their wife/husband - Cain was no different.
 
It’s not biblical fundamentalism.
It’s procreation biology.

Everybody on earth is biologically related to their wife/husband - Cain was no different.
Have the “Eve” genetic studies been revised? The UNESCO team reviewing the basic studies - in the 'Big 80’s" if memory serves, agreed with the ‘one maternal’ origin extrapolation. The Chinese attempted to provide counter evidence but those studies would have been likely lost in the Himalayan earthquake predecessor event.

Anyone have a pulse on this research?
 
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