How to approach lesbian daughter wrt her girlfriends?

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Edmundus1581

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I have a daughter now in her late 20’s who “came out” as a Lesbian nearly ten years ago.

We have hardly discussed it at all, other than for me to re-assure her of my love. She is well aware that my position on it is simply the Catholic position. She once commented to me “I’m not going to change, no matter how much you pray about it”.

She has a passionate, “committed” nature and has had several girlfriends, investing a few of them with the hopes of “true love” and a permanent relationship, including children.

Obviously, when we see each other, or “chat” on facebook, we can’t just ignore a current romantic interest. I discuss them as a “friend”, asking about their interests and making a positive comment where I can.

However, it’s getting more awkward as time goes by and I avoid the topic as much as I can.

I see on facebook that she has a new girlfriend, so this brings up the problem again.

Any advise?

Particularly, should I be pro-active and say something such as “I see you have a new girlfriend” and invite some conversation, politely, as I would for a heterosexual relationship, but without explicitly endorsing it?

I should add that apart from this problem we get on well, she contributes to family life with her (adult) siblings, and retains some respect for the Church and her upbringing. She has also managed her own life fairly well, through some ups and downs. There is a lot to be lost with a mistaken approach.
 
Every human being, male, female, straight, gay, genius or mentally challenged, all races, colors, and creeds are made in the image and likeness of God, and eternally loved by Him.

Love your daughter deeply and with compassion and grace. Stand fast to your position but offer kindness instead of judgment. It sounds like the situation you have is about as good as it can get and you are doing the right thing in relation to her. Love, don’t judge, leave that to God. And a few prayers probably won’t hurt.

My two cents.
 
Since she knows how you feel and what you believe, there is no need to bring it up again, unless she does. At which time you calmly tell her again what you believe.

I think you are handling the situation wisely. I would inquire about the new relationship when she brings it up. You can be polite, and ask questions as you said you have in the past without condoning anything.

I would not borrow trouble where there isn’t any right now as far as where her relationships go. Wait til that time comes. And until then, I am sure you will keep her in your prayers as any father would. 🙂
 
I know I’m hardly the voice of reason on these forums (that role has been usurped by the anti-Francis and anti-Trump contingents), but I think ignoring the “relationship” part of things, focusing on keeping lines of communication open and constant prayer are what would work best here. It worked for St. Monica. 🙂

Praying for you, your daughter, and her “partners”.
 
She once commented to me “I’m not going to change, no matter how much you pray about it”.
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I hope that you know that that is not correct. People do change, for the better and the worse. She may always identify as homosexual, but her relationship with God and His Church may change for the better.
 
I’m afraid there’s not likely a one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

In my case, when I was living as a lesbian, my parents and other family members who were practicing Catholics (cousins in particular) accepted me and my partner with loving and open arms. This kept us together as a family. If they had responded in any other way, family ties would have been broken, maybe even permanently.

I did eventually leave that life behind (and never look back, by the way), and return to a deeper faith in God than I’d ever had before in my life.

But I can’t say that’s the right thing to do with your daughter. And I know many faithful Catholics would say that embracing your daughter AND her partners is not only a bad idea but even against the faith.

All I know is that the unconditional love of my family for me eventually helped me turn away from that lifestyle with my family relationships intact. And even though some may argue that love means correction, etc. – and I’m not disagreeing with that – sometimes you just need to love and welcome people exactly where they’re at and let the grace of God work in their lives and hearts in ways that are hidden from your view.

So ask your daughter about her current friend. What’s her name? What does she do for a living? Does she treat you well? And then shut up and listen – not only to your child, but to the voice of God in your heart. He’ll lead you… -]I promise./-] He promises. ❤️

Be at peace.

And love your daughter in the way your heart desires – with whatever God places there.

And be at peace.
 
Thankyou all for your kind and considered responses, your encouragement and prayers.

It is most helpful to be confirmed in the path I have chosen, to be accepting of her partner(s) and not let my awkwardness show.

Gertabelle, thankyou particularly for your advice from the point of view of the child who has been in this position.

:blessyou:
 
Deal with it as you would if she left her husband and was dating other people, perhaps living with someone off and on, someone who honestly does not see anything wrong with divorce and remarriage. How would you treat her talk about dating other men and how would you treat the men she was dating or living with? What if she were in a line of work that the world thinks is fine but that you know to be immoral? There is a point where you have offered correction, she refuses it, and you don’t deal with her as a fellow believer any more.

It isn’t within anyone’s capacity to judge whether someone else is driven, inclined or chooses serious sin. It isn’t anyone’s job. Christians cannot condone immoral behavior, but on the other hand we don’t make everyone else’s moral life our business. When we live in the world without being of the world, it means we have our moral code and we don’t exhaust ourselves with correcting those not under our jurisdiction.

There are passages in Scripture that deal with this:

I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people, not at all referring to the immoral of this world or the greedy and robbers or idolaters; for you would then have to leave the world. But I now write to you not to associate with anyone named a brother, if he is immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunkard, or a robber, not even to eat with such a person. For why should I be judging outsiders? Is it not your business to judge those within? God will judge those outside. “Purge the evil person from your midst.” 1 Cor. 5:9-13

*“If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.” *Matt. 18:15-17

Our Lord was willing to eat with tax collectors and those who notoriously broke moral law. He did speak to his nearest disciples in a different way than he spoke to the crowds, though. Likewise, St. Paul said, “Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law - though I myself am not under the law - to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law - though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ - to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some.” 1 Cor. 9:19-22

It should be obvious that there isn’t any law that forbids offering simple kindnesses to anyone. Having said that, it is a duty when dealing with a brother or a sister in the faith to admonish the sinner, instruct the ignorant, counsel the doubtful.

Believers correct each other. They do not go out correcting everyone in the world, regardless of whether they’re being listened to or not. You cannot condone a reading of the faith that is clearly opposed to its plain teachings. You can, however, realize when you would be throwing pearls before swine and choose not to admonish someone when all you would be doing is sowing strife. You can have a truce with your daughter and her friends, provided she understands that tolerance means that you are allowed to keep your mouth shut, and for not correcting her over and over you are allowed to refrain from giving approval, too. The rule is this: Where disapproval is not allowed, approval is not to be asked for. You get to decide what constitutes approval of immoral behavior for yourself; it is your conscience.
 
Gertabelle said:
I’m afraid there’s not likely a one-size-fits-all answer to your question.

In my case, when I was living as a lesbian, my parents and other family members who were practicing Catholics (cousins in particular) accepted me and my partner with loving and open arms. This kept us together as a family. If they had responded in any other way, family ties would have been broken, maybe even permanently.

I did eventually leave that life behind (and never look back, by the way), and return to a deeper faith in God than I’d ever had before in my life.

But I can’t say that’s the right thing to do with your daughter. And I know many faithful Catholics would say that embracing your daughter AND her partners is not only a bad idea but even against the faith.

All I know is that the unconditional love of my family for me eventually helped me turn away from that lifestyle with my family relationships intact. And even though some may argue that love means correction, etc. – and I’m not disagreeing with that – sometimes you just need to love and welcome people exactly where they’re at and let the grace of God work in their lives and hearts in ways that are hidden from your view.

So ask your daughter about her current friend. What’s her name? What does she do for a living? Does she treat you well? And then shut up and listen – not only to your child, but to the voice of God in your heart. He’ll lead you… -]I promise./-] He promises. ❤️

Be at peace.

And love your daughter in the way your heart desires – with whatever God places there.

And be at peace.
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I think this advice is so, so good. We can certainly tell loved ones who are engaging in lifestyles with which we disagree that we do not condone it or want to have any untoward activity in our homes. BUT we love each other and need to embrace one another as humans, as children of God. 🙂
 
So celibate gay/ssa Catholic guy here to hopefully offer some perspective your daughter might appreciate.

First question, has she heard of is she aware of the ‘Side B’ position (which is basically Church teaching). Good books from gay celibate Christians on this topic are “Washed and Waiting” by Wesley Hill, “Gay and Catholic” by Eve Tushnet, and spiritualfriendship.org. The general thesis is that same sex attractions are not inherently sinful but rather the actions (physical or lustful) are not in accordance with God’s Will. Thus many with same sex attraction/gay individuals are called to a celibate vocation (though a small minority do enter into a mixed orientation marriage). How one actively lives out a celibate vocation is still something discussed in this world and a good source is this article: americamagazine.org/faith/2017/01/24/beyond-religious-life-and-marriage-look-friendship-vocation

One thing to possibly discuss her is what is her perception of a celibate life, what is her views on love, and her views on faith in general. In our society, we have kinda idolatrized romance and ‘finding the one’ as a means to happiness and fulfillment (somewhat encouraged by Christian culture at large that remains hyperfocused on marriage and kinda ignores celibate vocations). The logical conclusion to this is that a celibate vocation is one without love, full of loneliness, and unfulfilling. That skewed perspective makes a celibate vocation seem unattainable and can lead to a path of rationalization to justify a same sex sexual relationship.

So the first important thing from that is to say it this. Single should and does not mean alone and without love. It may mean without eros or romantic love but love found from family and from friends can be just as profound, strong, encouraging, and fulfilling. However, society by and large as devalued it. Here is an example of friendship that is very countercultural today: washingtonpost.com/local/they-met-in-a-1960s-group-house-nearly-50-years-later-theyre-still-roommates/2016/01/29/3ef27e30-a5de-11e5-b53d-972e2751f433_story.html?utm_term=.ca778a0a80e8

Another point (kinda an extension from the last) is that the church doesn’t view love between two people of the same sex as sinful or bad. It teaches that love, however, should not be expressed sexually (sex is reserved within a marriage between a man and a woman that is open to life). An interesting blog between two woman who are gay but celibate and living together is this (aqueercalling.com/) which is obviously not a solution for everyone but something to consider. There is also the option of living in a kind of intentional community with a group of people.

Last point, I would make is to keep communication always open between you and your daughter. Pray for her (as I am praying for both of you) and be open to communication should she wish to discuss the topic (including listening to her viewpoints, perspectives, experiences, etc). Open communication is probably the best way for her to feel fully comfortable discussing this topic.

Hope some of this ramble is helpful. I’m by no means an expert on this issue, but this is some of the thoughts that have jumbled around in my head when dealing with this particular cross.
 
Thanks (so much!) for the new replies. You’ve given me some helpful things to think about.

It’s the middle of the working day here in Australia, and I have a guest arriving this evening, but I’ll respond when I can.

It’s been my intention to seek advice on this from CAF for several years now, and I’m so glad I did!

~ Edmundus
 
Edmundus1581 said:
Thanks (so much!) for the new replies. You’ve given me some helpful things to think about.

It’s the middle of the working day here in Australia, and I have a guest arriving this evening, but I’ll respond when I can.

It’s been my intention to seek advice on this from CAF for several years now, and I’m so glad I did!

~ Edmundus
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I’m glad you did finally ask, Eddy Boy. Have you discussed this with your parish priest?

And honestly, you might also just be really upfront with your daughter that you’re not sure how to talk with her about her relationships. She may not be able to understand your uncertainty, but she might be able to appreciate your honesty and your effort.

Heck, just grab her in a great big hug and tell her you love her. 😃 ❤️
 
EasterJoy, thankyou for the scriptural quotes and the more theological perspective. It is helpful to look at a Christian’s obligations in “correcting” others, noting that in this situation as a parent of an independent, adult child who does not profess the faith my obligation is more to love than to ongoing reproof. As you said: “The rule is this: Where disapproval is not allowed, approval is not to be asked for.”, or perhaps “politeness is not necessarily consent”.

at9009, thankyou for you perspective also as a SSA Catholic, and the references. As she is not now a practicing Catholic I expect she’s not ready to consider the celibacy option, but in a moment of candour between us I may hear something like “I can’t be a lesbian in the Catholic church”. I recall she once said “How can I accept a church which does not accept me?”. She would be terrified at the thought of celibacy, not because of the sex, but the loneliness. I will attempt to read your references to have an answer ready in case this comes up. As I mentioned, she has a positive view of the church, generally.

Gert, you asked whether I have discussed this with my parish priest. I did once, a few years ago when I thought this was a temporary phase, so it would be a good idea to discuss it again. Thanks also for your encouragement and friendship! 😃

And, also Gert, I think this is important to remember: “there’s not likely a one-size-fits-all answer to your question.”

“Keeping the lines of communication open” featured in most of your responses.

Thanks again to all for your time, thoughts and prayers! 🙂 I will say a prayer for you all, also.
 
In Hartford, CT USA, there is a LBGT outreach with gay Catholics. Maybe talking to them will calm you down, sorry for the news. They’re monks too from what I hear, take the journey and hope she follows! spsact.org
 
I wouldn’t suggest any big changes in how your doing things, as it sounds like you are already doing it very well, and because there are already a bunch of good posts here. But I do wonder, what kind of church is she going to, if any? (I’m guessing not a Catholic church – it doesn’t sound like she would be willing to sit in the pew while everyone else go up for communion.) And have you expressed any interest in visiting it sometime?
 
Peter_J said:
I wouldn’t suggest any big changes in how your doing things, as it sounds like you are already doing it very well, and because there are already a bunch of good posts here. But I do wonder, what kind of church is she going to, if any? (I’m guessing not a Catholic church – it doesn’t sound like she would be willing to sit in the pew while everyone else go up for communion.) And have you expressed any interest in visiting it sometime?
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I think her current situation is “non believer, but searching”. Your suggestions will be helpful to keep for the future. They are also consistent with the previous advice to work on the relationship and keep communications open.

👍
 
" She has a passionate, “committed” nature and has had several girlfriends, investing a few of them with the hopes of “true love” and a permanent relationship, including children."

I have to ask, is this “having children” a “natural” stage with those who want same-sex relationships? When I think of a possible future where I’m getting married children is just a natural thought fulfilled in marriage via acts of natural law. I get the feeling that “having children” when it comes to same-sex pairings it’s a deliberate step to become like opposite sex couples.
 
Midwest88 said:
" She has a passionate, “committed” nature and has had several girlfriends, investing a few of them with the hopes of “true love” and a permanent relationship, including children."

I have to ask, is this “having children” a “natural” stage with those who want same-sex relationships? When I think of a possible future where I’m getting married children is just a natural thought fulfilled in marriage via acts of natural law. I get the feeling that “having children” when it comes to same-sex pairings it’s a deliberate step to become like opposite sex couples.
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Yes, it’s a natural stage. No one would go to all that trouble just to copy straight people.
 
Edmundus1581 said:
I think her current situation is “non believer, but searching”.
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Yeah, I can relate to you there. Among my own friends and relatives there are quite a few who started out Catholics but no longer are, and some of those persons simply stopped going to church. (In a way I guess you could say is flattering to us Catholics, like they’re saying “There are no other churches worth going to.”)
 
I like Pope Frances response of who are we to judge. My sister is gay and happily married going on 12 years. They are more Christian then most who attend Church every Sunday and give more then they receive. I have always welcomed her and partners in the past (some dozies) but when she settled down she picked a good woman. Interesting enough When all this gay marriage came about, her take on it was the same as mine. Everyone should be granted a Civil Union certificate from the state and the Marriage License should come from the church.

Her wife comes from a very southern baptist background, and my sister identifies as Catholic. Her wife is finding the Catholic way of life very interesting, so much so she often engages Catholics to learn more of our beliefs. Are we to deny them, I think not, I think we should embrace them as we were not given the power to judge others.

If you met these two wonderful people on the street you would be amazed. So Mom, do ask your daughter about her GF, It will only bring you close to her, and someday she will find her soulmate.
 
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